Lets talk about grief (new map)

[Watermelon_01]

I assume it means Log. Usually Wood = Log. Usually.
If you want we can test some of this out.

Maybe planks too, they are just as common as logs.

You don't explain anything you say, you're just being completely negative about every topic. In YOUR opinion, every township plugin seems to be bad. How is towny bad? It's simple, easy to get into, it does it's job and isn't confusing to new players.

Your join date means you played on Bastion...do you not remember bastion at all? Do you not remember how huge of a success full pvp was? and the maps before that that were full pvp? 'extreme pvp' that's the way it had always been. This was a hardcore server. Do you want a full pve map so people can sit there and grind and get bored and leave? Full PvP is going to bring back a lot more world map pvp and team fighting. That's the reason some of the old PvP groups are coming back for this map.(or so I've heard) The only '1' and '2' points you made aren't even finalized yet, and while I don't agree with some changes, I do not agree with you at all on full pvp being a wrong direction for the server as it had clearly been the right direction for the server back when it was full pvp.


edit: lolwut

It may be a good but it's not the only option. Having all pvp and mostly pve pertains too much to each side. Pvp loses players by missing out on pve players. Pve loses players to boredom and pvp asses. A mix would be best but I do look forward to seeing how all pvp works out

 

[Nashah]

Your join date means you played on Bastion...do you not remember bastion at all? Do you not remember how huge of a success full pvp was? and the maps before that that were full pvp? 'extreme pvp' that's the way it had always been. This was a hardcore server. Do you want a full pve map so people can sit there and grind and get bored and leave? Full PvP is going to bring back a lot more world map pvp and team fighting. That's the reason some of the old PvP groups are coming back for this map.(or so I've heard) The only '1' and '2' points you made aren't even finalized yet, and while I don't agree with some changes, I do not agree with you at all on full pvp being a wrong direction for the server as it had clearly been the right direction for the server back when it was full pvp.

From talking to him he's not against full map pvp. I think he means that this is a bit of an extreme shift suddenly. It's going back to full map pvp plus destructible towns and personal regions. I believe he's more of voicing a concern in regards to grief, which is my concern also.

With this there isn't too much of an incentive to join a town either really, unless you want pvp. Back on bastion part of the draw was that pve players would join towns for safety and to store their stuff, now that won't be a factor as towns don't mean safety for you or your stuff. Now I'm not against the idea of sieges at all, but you have to understand this goes beyond how hardcore it was back in bastion. If the server were to go live right now with what has been stated, the safest thing to do is to simply slap a few chests on the ground, lwc them and call it a day.

Edit: In fact it might actually be safer to NOT join a town. With that you're effectively painting a target on your back/loot. I will be regardless because I'll find it fun (and I can place 20 lwcs). But this will drive away some people. There will be no incentive for beginners to join a town other then for pvp really

 

[JacobBurkey]

Maybe planks too, they are just as common as logs.

It may be a good but it's not the only option. Having all pvp and mostly pve pertains too much to each side. Pvp loses players by missing out on pve players. Pve loses players to boredom and pvp asses. A mix would be best but I do look forward to seeing how all pvp works out

I don't even have words for what you just said but i'll try to explain it to you as simply as possible even though I've said this multiple times throughout threads. With the map split in half and all of the PvPers already gone, that leaves the very few pvpers left with nothing to do. So when there's a bounty on a noob, they go after it for fun. You act like 'pvp asses' camp noobs for fun. I don't even understand what you mean by PvP loses players because there's no PvE? Like what are you even talking about lol. Full PvP will just increase PvP between towns and players because you can't just run and hide in PvE. If PvE players can't man up and join a town for protection or learn to fight back, there's no reason for them to bother being on the server.

tldr: Full PvP means more actual PvP and not noob killing

 

[TheManiac23]

If i think about Soft Blocks the first thing that comes in my mind is blocks you can "easy" break with your hand.

 

[spiralz]

So is this thread about grief for the sake of grief or sieging specifics?

 

[kperkins1982]

I don't even have words for what you just said but i'll try to explain it to you as simply as possible even though I've said this multiple times throughout threads. With the map split in half and all of the PvPers already gone, that leaves the very few pvpers left with nothing to do. So when there's a bounty on a noob, they go after it for fun. You act like 'pvp asses' camp noobs for fun. I don't even understand what you mean by PvP loses players because there's no PvE? Like what are you even talking about lol. Full PvP will just increase PvP between towns and players because you can't just run and hide in PvE. If PvE players can't man up and join a town for protection or learn to fight back, there's no reason for them to bother being on the server.

tldr: Full PvP means more actual PvP and not noob killing

This thread is for greif discussion

the pvp/pve discussion can happen another place

 

[Carbash]

You don't explain anything you say, you're just being completely negative about every topic. In YOUR opinion, every township plugin seems to be bad. How is towny bad? It's simple, easy to get into, it does it's job and isn't confusing to new players.

Your join date means you played on Bastion...do you not remember bastion at all? Do you not remember how huge of a success full pvp was? and the maps before that that were full pvp? 'extreme pvp' that's the way it had always been. This was a hardcore server. Do you want a full pve map so people can sit there and grind and get bored and leave? Full PvP is going to bring back a lot more world map pvp and team fighting. That's the reason some of the old PvP groups are coming back for this map.(or so I've heard) The only '1' and '2' points you made aren't even finalized yet, and while I don't agree with some changes, I do not agree with you at all on full pvp being a wrong direction for the server as it had clearly been the right direction for the server back when it was full pvp.


edit: lolwut

Im sorry you got me wrong here, I welcome full pvp. I was refereing to sieging and griefing in general. I was on my lunch and kind of halfhazardly posted my opinion on the matter. I would rather a system like in bastion where the only way in a town was due to a design flaw. Im not a fan of griefing at all. I want full pvp back, i just dont like that my shit can be stolen from a town (which should be a safe place) when im not even online to attempt to defend it.


Edit: this proposed system will make the casual player be at a severe disadvantage. Unfortunately because of life/jobs some of us have no other choice than to be casual players. As far as me stating that this map was almost full pve, it kind of was. Arena was really the only place to find pvp unless you count killing new players during war (which i dont)

 

[JacobBurkey]

Im sorry you got me wrong here, I welcome full pvp. I was refereing to sieging and griefing in general. I was on my lunch and kind of halfhazardly posted my opinion on the matter. I would rather a system like in bastion where the only way in a town was due to a dedign flaw. Im not a fan of griefing at all. I want full pvp back, i just dont like that my shit can be stolen from a town (which should be a safe place) when im not even online to attempt to defend it.

I understand, but you also seem do to not understand the new system completely either. Attackers can't just walk in and steal your stuff, all chests are locked until the siege is won. This system is obviously supposed to encourage town raiding and pvp, but there's still flaws. Everyone is complaining about the greif, but if it was implemented I highly doubt there wont be a mechanic where after the siege is done the blocks broken are rerolled. I do agree however that I was a fan of the only way getting in due to design flaws therefore a town actually has to double check everything they build and do. Sadly now the rules aren't enforced as much and box towns aren't even looked twice at anymore. Towns used to actually look good and were fun to raid since people didn't create box towns since they obviously weren't allowed.

 

[0xNaomi]

I understand, but you also seem do to not understand the new system completely either. Attackers can't just walk in and steal your stuff, all chests are locked until the siege is won. This system is obviously supposed to encourage town raiding and pvp, but there's still flaws. Everyone is complaining about the greif, but if it was implemented I highly doubt there wont be a mechanic where after the siege is done the blocks broken are rerolled. I do agree however that I was a fan of the only way getting in due to design flaws therefore a town actually has to double check everything they build and do. Sadly now the rules aren't enforced as much and box towns aren't even looked twice at anymore. Towns used to actually look good and were fun to raid since people didn't create box towns since they obviously weren't allowed.

Look at the plugin's bukkitdev page. If it's not listed there, don't get your hopes too high that we'll have it.

The grief issue also extends outside the plugin. Saying it's legal so that we don't have to place a sign and hope is great, but what about Mr. Builder that just wants to make nice roads connecting the spawn to other major points? They're attempting to do the playerbase and server a service (as a nice world will likely help keep newcomers), should they just be told "too bad" when someone decides to wreck their public work?

 

[LordZelkova]

Dont let people break Roads and cool builds.

Let people break cobble boxes and dirt houses or abandoned stuff.
It's pretty easy to tell if it's abandoned. If it aint regioned and its not a road or some kind of architectural feat it's fair game.

 

[joshtsai]

Dont let people break Roads and cool builds.

Let people break cobble boxes and dirt houses or abandoned stuff.
It's pretty easy to tell if it's abandoned. If it aint regioned and its not a road or some kind of architectural feat it's fair game.

How about wording it as such:

"Mindless Greifing is illegal. Works of utility(roads, bridges, and walkways) and works architectural merit are loved and preserved by the server. Anyone found griefing these structures will be swiftly and justly punished."

I'm not saying this is a final decision but just how I would word Zel's solution into the rules.

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

So then why are you wiping now? Nobody wants to play on a server till December (if this new townships thing is even done by then) and then have all their stuff switched over to a new town system, what are you gonna do, wipe again? Also from my experience with older servers, GriefPrevention is like a worse version of Factions.

@Vendetice Personally I would much prefer you join this conversation under a valid MC name so we know who we're talking to.

 

[Teslanut]

How about wording it as such:

"Mindless Greifing is illegal. Works of utility(roads, bridges, and walkways) and works architectural merit are loved and preserved by the server. Anyone found griefing these structures will be swiftly and justly punished."

I'm not saying this is a final decision but just how I would word Zel's solution into the rules.

I think this opens up a can of worms as to what is a work of utility or has architectural merit, and what is a building that can be greifed. I do pretty okay building, but some people may not like it (look at Indar and the surrounding PR's). More specifically, my daughters have built structures in Herocraft which are basic cobble and dirt houses. They would and have been pretty upset to log in and the structures they spent hours working on were greifed.

Allowing or disallowing greif based on architectural merit is a slippery slope.

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

@JacobBurkey to clarify a couple of points:

With the map split in half and all of the PvPers already gone, that leaves the very few pvpers left with nothing to do. -snip- Full PvP will just increase PvP between towns and players because you can't just run and hide in PvE.

It seems that when you see players mention PvP and PvE you're assuming they're wanting a divided map. I don't think anyone is suggesting that, that I can see. Rather they are perhaps referring to preferred playstyles.

Everyone is complaining about the greif, but if it was implemented I highly doubt there wont be a mechanic where after the siege is done the blocks broken are rerolled.

This is a key part of why this thread is here. The initial proposal is that blocks broken during a siege will NOT be rolled back. So now we're discussing this.

 

[JacobBurkey]

@JacobBurkey to clarify a couple of points:



It seems that when you see players mention PvP and PvE you're assuming they're wanting a divided map. I don't think anyone is suggesting that, that I can see. Rather they are perhaps referring to preferred playstyles.



This is a key part of why this thread is here. The initial proposal is that blocks broken during a siege will NOT be rolled back. So now we're discussing this.

1st point...no..I said that because I was referring to the current map and how it was right now. He literally said the pvp and pve side of the maps. Wasn't assuming anything.

Not trying to be mean, but did you even read the first post? There's nothing 'proposed' about sieges. I am proposing ideas that wouldn't make people want to quit because their towns can be greifed and have to redo their work, which is actually almost everyone wants as far as I've seen.

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

And now it's me you're misunderstanding *smiles sweetly*

...I highly doubt there wont be a mechanic where after the siege is done the blocks broken are rerolled

The initial proposal does NOT include having a mechanic for regenerating blocks broken during a siege. Player desire to have such a mechanic is part of what's being discussed.

 

[JacobBurkey]

And now it's me you're misunderstanding *smiles sweetly*



The initial proposal does NOT include having a mechanic for regenerating blocks broken during a siege. Player desire to have such a mechanic is part of what's being discussed.

Guess I misunderstood your post, and yes I realize there's no mechanic for regenerating blocks broken during a siege. That's why I'm saying there should be, as almost everyone here has shown negative feedback about having their towns greifed. If there isn't, I doubt players/groups would bother making a town since it would be waste with this township plugin.

 

[GodOfGales]

Sorry if I overlooked this question if it was asked and answered prior.

So with all these new griefing rules that are possibly be in implemented will it alter the current Runestone rule? What I'm asking is can runestones be made/used on regions you do not have permissions in.

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

Sorry if I overlooked this question if it was asked and answered prior.

So with all these new griefing rules that are possibly be in implemented will it alter the current Runestone rule? What I'm asking is can runestones be made/used on regions you do not have permissions in.

My understanding from @TimForReal is that runestones can't be created in a region to which you don't have perms. However a stolen one could be used by someone to recall into a region for which they don't perms.

 

[Kainzo]

Thanks for the keeping the discussions going, I am reading all of these replies and taking it in.

I think we will keep mindlessly griefing illegal, but we're also going to extend protections based on how many hours you play on Herocraft, so if you WANT to do a massive build, you will "level" up your block allotment to a cap.