Suggestion Let's allow griefing (hear me out!)

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

I'm less a month old on this server and there are a lot of things to love about it. It's also exciting to see that Kainzo is in constant pursuit to implement new ideas to evolve the server, and seemingly the community.

I was surprised to find out (given all the ruthless, albeit awesome killing that goes on in this server) that griefing was not allowed. I understand given the current system how disheartening it would be to allow griefing, since those without towns or personal protected homes would suffer. If it were the case that at any time unprotected land could be destroyed, it would encourage people to start/join a town. As for personal protected areas only being available to donors, I submit that it should be available to anyone, discounted by your donor tier, of course. This way, if you don't want naughty boys all up in your face, your options are to either join a township, or save some coins to have your own place to call home.

The part that bothers me is the wishy-washy ruling of what griefing currently is constituted as. You're allowed to build a cobble tower to scale someone's wall, but make sure you take it down or it's griefing... You're allowed to break a few blocks to get inside of a home, but you best replace each and every block, or it's griefing... The new one is that you're allowed to break crops but you have to plant them or it's griefing. Given the scenario that if I were to break 10 or so blocks to get into somebody's house and they end up killing me, am I supposed to go back to my place of death, replace those blocks, and be on my way? What then if they repeatedly kill me? Are they entitled to send a /pe request saying that I griefed their area? Excuse me for my ignorance.

If the server allowed griefing, there would likely be a wide spectrum of the type of griefers on the server. From those who will grief any and all non-protected homes, to those who will refuse to grief anything. Some will choose to only grief ugly buildings, while others will only fuel their rage to certain people. All in all, the only way of protection is, you guessed it, protection (town or personal region)... and in my opinion, that's the best way to go.

I understand that a lot of you may absolutely hate this idea, and the only way it would work would be to alter current "norms" on this server, that have likely been around for months (if not years). It's a radical idea, and may never come into fruition, but it's my 2 cents on the issue, nonetheless.

As a side note, I just read about Kainzo's karma system that is in planning mode... wouldn't it be cool if griefing gave you evil karma? Just think of the possibilities.

 

[Psychokhaos]

Yeah... no. Just no.

Something I put on a different thread:
You are definitely right. We should let players' hard work be destroyed by some idiot wandering around. That really is a good way to appeal to people. And Hardcore =/= No protections. We appeal to both PvP'ers and builders.
herocraftonline.com/main/threads/woooowwwwww.23617/#post-215064

This is going in the wrong direction. Allowing griefing, and regions for everyone.

And yes, it is years. Almost 2, to be exact. AFAIK, in Herocraft's entire history, griefing has never been permitted. It ruins a person's sense of accomplishment.

 

[rfgordan]

Miners could destroy an entire town

 

[malmenca]

IDK about full blown griefing, but the bullshit of removing pillars is lame as fuck.

For example, I pillared onto a towns walls. As I was leaving I began taking down the pillar and got fireballed off and died. So now I'm shit out of luck.
1) I got killed
2) I can't remove pillar and prolly have a strike against me in some way shape or form..
3) If I go back I will get killed again.

Frankly, if your town is pillar-able, it should be that towns responsibility to take them down. And people say "just tell them your taking the pillar down" but HC doesn't work that way. That doesn't fly for 90% of the ppl. That 90% of people end up ensuring you don't get to break the pillar so they can PE it and get another person banned.

As for breaking blocks and replacing when entering somones building, I think as long the broken block can be repicked up and placed by either party (Attacker/defender) and they replace it shouldn't be a big deal. I mean, if u engage in a fight as u pop a hole in a wall and die, **BAM** You've just been PE'd for poking a hole in a wall.
-If the block broken was a wood plank, it shouldn't matter as it doesn't change when broken
-If the block broken was Stone, it matters a bit because breaking stone results in cobble.
^^^^ or glass or something similar.

 

[xShonounx]

You shouldn't be able to grief towns, but everything else. Yeah, that seems about right.

 

[xShonounx]

You shouldn't be able to grief towns, but everything else. Yeah, that seems about right.

Non-sarcastically, I meant.

 

[Iarbobray]

The second griefing is allowed, the second I leave herocraft. You're saying that supports townships, but if griefing isn't illegal, who's to stop you from destroying that town? Also- you see that nice house you just built? Sorry, it's a lava lake now.

Extra Bits:

-snip-

Solution: Don't pillar/pillar in a safer way

Non-sarcastically, I meant.

You can edit posts, you know.

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

You are definitely right. We should let players' hard work be destroyed by some idiot wandering around. That really is a good way to appeal to people. And Hardcore =/= No protections. We appeal to both PvP'ers and builders.
herocraftonline.com/main/threads/woooowwwwww.23617/#post-215064

And yes, it is years. Almost 2, to be exact. AFAIK, in Herocraft's entire history, griefing has never been permitted. It ruins a person's sense of accomplishment.

Yet, looting is allowed. Stealing everything from a chest that wasn't LWC protected can certainly be seen as "destroying a player's hard work", but stealing is completely legal. Oddly enough, breaking and entering with no restrictions, is a bannable offense. We encourage players to save their coins for LWC protection, why not griefing protection as well?

Malmenca already has pointed out "flaws" to the current system. It would be easier, more realistic, and headache free for moderators to just allow griefing. Otherwise, if I accidently hit a reed while trying to kill someone, I just griefed and broke the rules, and breaking the rules is worthy of a ban.

I want to make it clear that I'm not raging, I'm just trying to get a better grasp of what's what and poisoning the well while I'm at it.

Miners could destroy an entire town

If the town is protected, the blocks regen. Nothing changes from the current system. If the town isn't protected, it doesn't deserve to be a town in the first place.

 

[xShonounx]

The second griefing is allowed, the second I leave herocraft. You're saying that supports townships, but if griefing isn't illegal, who's to stop you from destroying that town? Also- you see that nice house you just built? Sorry, it's a lava lake now.

Extra Bits:


Solution: Don't pillar/pillar in a safer way


You can edit posts, you know.

WHATEVER.

 

[Kwong050]

I'm less a month old on this server and there are a lot of things to love about it. It's also exciting to see that Kainzo is in constant pursuit to implement new ideas to evolve the server, and seemingly the community.

I was surprised to find out (given all the ruthless, albeit awesome killing that goes on in this server) that griefing was not allowed. I understand given the current system how disheartening it would be to allow griefing, since those without towns or personal protected homes would suffer. If it were the case that at any time unprotected land could be destroyed, it would encourage people to start/join a town. As for personal protected areas only being available to donors, I submit that it should be available to anyone, discounted by your donor tier, of course. This way, if you don't want naughty boys all up in your face, your options are to either join a township, or save some coins to have your own place to call home.

The part that bothers me is the wishy-washy ruling of what griefing currently is constituted as. You're allowed to build a cobble tower to scale someone's wall, but make sure you take it down or it's griefing... You're allowed to break a few blocks to get inside of a home, but you best replace each and every block, or it's griefing... The new one is that you're allowed to break crops but you have to plant them or it's griefing. Given the scenario that if I were to break 10 or so blocks to get into somebody's house and they end up killing me, am I supposed to go back to my place of death, replace those blocks, and be on my way? What then if they repeatedly kill me? Are they entitled to send a /pe request saying that I griefed their area? Excuse me for my ignorance.

If the server allowed griefing, there would likely be a wide spectrum of the type of griefers on the server. From those who will grief any and all non-protected homes, to those who will refuse to grief anything. Some will choose to only grief ugly buildings, while others will only fuel their rage to certain people. All in all, the only way of protection is, you guessed it, protection (town or personal region)... and in my opinion, that's the best way to go.

I understand that a lot of you may absolutely hate this idea, and the only way it would work would be to alter current "norms" on this server, that have likely been around for months (if not years). It's a radical idea, and may never come into fruition, but it's my 2 cents on the issue, nonetheless.

As a side note, I just read about Kainzo's karma system that is in planning mode... wouldn't it be cool if griefing gave you evil karma? Just think of the possibilities.

This would complete ruin the region donating system

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

The second griefing is allowed, the second I leave herocraft. You're saying that supports townships, but if griefing isn't illegal, who's to stop you from destroying that town? Also- you see that nice house you just built? Sorry, it's a lava lake now.

Wait... what? If it's a town, it's protected. Only members of that town can break blocks. Anything PROTECTED stays PROTECTED.

 

[Iarbobray]

Wait... what? If it's a town, it's protected. Only members of that town can break blocks. Anything PROTECTED stays PROTECTED.

Oh sorry, I don't think I was clear enough. I meant that someone joins a town and breaks their stuff. My guess that if griefing was legalized, then it would be treated like stealing. You could get banned for doing it to a town, but they won't get their item (this case buildings) back.

 

[WoleverEntun]

I would hate only being able to securely build something in a town or region, it would limit the size and range of buildings across the server, allowing for whatever mayors allowed in their towns and people fit in their small personal regions.

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

I meant that someone joins a town and breaks their stuff. My guess that if griefing was legalized, then it would be treated like stealing..

That's a fair point, actually. The only response I have to that is that it would weed out the baddies on the server. If someone is labeled as a person who destroys their own town, they get kicked out and wished good luck on finding a town that will take someone who is untrustworthy. It would also give town owners a harder job in accepting new members to the team.

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

I would hate only being able to securely build something in a town or region, it would limit the size and range of buildings across the server, allowing for whatever mayors allowed in their towns and people fit in their small personal regions.

Sure, but it gives an added benefit to being part of a Kingdom (a lot of land to work with). It gives you a reason to spend the coins you have; for expansion. As I've stated earlier, the allowance of personal regions would have to be granted to everyone, at a price. Higher tiers have the option of expanding their land while still paying a weekly tax to keep it protected. Built above your means? You'll pay for it by paying through the teeth. Has your bank gone dry? Your building is no longer protected and free to be griefed. It's the price you SHOULD have to pay for building something you can't afford.

 

[Iarbobray]

That's a fair point, actually. The only response I have to that is that it would weed out the baddies on the server. If someone is labeled as a person who destroys their own town, they get kicked out and wished good luck on finding a town that will take someone who is untrustworthy. It would also give town owners a harder job in accepting new members to the team.

And then the new players who no one knows won't be trusted and will be forced to live in the wilderness... Where random people find there house and destroy it, ruining the server for them causing them to leave. Imagine this in full scale and... Herocraft only has trustworthy veteran living in towns. New players are sent away immediately. Tnt and Lava raining down from the skies! Rivers and oceans flooding whole biomes! Days of night from all the lag! Dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria! Herocraft would be forced to end!

Basically I just typed up the worst scenario. There's a chance it might happen, but it's probably unlikely.
I mean, dogs and cats living together is just ridiculous!

 

[Psychokhaos]

Yet, looting is allowed. Stealing everything from a chest that wasn't LWC protected can certainly be seen as "destroying a player's hard work", but stealing is completely legal. Oddly enough, breaking and entering with no restrictions, is a bannable offense. We encourage players to save their coins for LWC protection, why not griefing protection as well?

Malmenca already has pointed out "flaws" to the current system. It would be easier, more realistic, and headache free for moderators to just allow griefing. Otherwise, if I accidently hit a reed while trying to kill someone, I just griefed and broke the rules, and breaking the rules is worthy of a ban.

I want to make it clear that I'm not raging, I'm just trying to get a better grasp of what's what and poisoning the well while I'm at it.


If the town is protected, the blocks regen. Nothing changes from the current system. If the town isn't protected, it doesn't deserve to be a town in the first place.

This has nothing to do with looting and theft. And there are differences. Oh, and you just need to replace the blocks for breaking and entering.

Really? Yeah, there would be less work for Mods and Admins. But, if it's the right thing to do... Plus, they knew that when they applied. They want to help out, and punish these things. And if you really think someone cares about a block or two that you accidentally break... That isn't worthy of a ban. The staff is understanding.

Didn't see anyone saying you were raging.

Every town will have ways in. So, what you're saying is that no town really deserves to fully be a town. Plus, last map, Dragongarde, Newerth was a pretty great town. And we had walls that any intelligent raider could get over. They were made to look good, not be really tall. So, a prosperous town like that too doesn't deserve to be a town?

Oh, and I want to say this: Griefing, in my opinion, is very childish, to destroy someone's creativity and hard work in such a way. (Like I said up there, differences. This is one of them.) So, why allow such a thing?

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

And then the new players who no one knows won't be trusted and will be forced to live in the wilderness... Where random people find there house and destroy it, ruining the server for them causing them to leave.

To this I say viva la warshard. I gathered enough gold on my first day on the server to be able to afford an LWC. If you're dedicated enough, and in the right areas, you should be able to sell enough gold to the DHX to be able to afford a personal region, or an LWC chest, in hours.

Besides, who's to say that there still won't be a town or two who accepts new people? People can show their character simply by reading what they write in chat. There's a difference between someone who says "Hey guys, I'm new to the server, can someone show me the ropes?" and "OMG guys what the fuck is going on? Someone give me their coordinates so i can have a sword and some armour or something lolcopter!"

 

[Iarbobray]

To this I say viva la warshard. I gathered enough gold on my first day on the server to be able to afford an LWC. If you're dedicated enough, and in the right areas, you should be able to sell enough gold to the DHX to be able to afford a personal region, or an LWC chest, in hours.

Besides, who's to say that there still won't be a town or two who accepts new people? People can show their character simply by reading what they write in chat. There's a difference between someone who says "Hey guys, I'm new to the server, can someone show me the ropes?" and "OMG guys what the fuck is going on? Someone give me their coordinates so i can have a sword and some armour or something lolcopter!"

You're making good points if you don't think about it. I'm not Kainzo or anyone important but I can assure you that griefing will never be allowed on this server.

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

Every town will have ways in. So, what you're saying is that no town really deserves to fully be a town. Plus, last map, Dragongarde, Newerth was a pretty great town. And we had walls that any intelligent raider could get over. They were made to look good, not be really tall. So, a prosperous town like that too doesn't deserve to be a town?

Oh, and I want to say this: Griefing, in my opinion, is very childish, to destroy someone's creativity and hard work in such a way. (Like I said up there, differences. This is one of them.) So, why allow such a thing?

No, I'm talking about the literal term of protection. Having regional protection, I think you call it.

I really don't see the difference, honestly. It can take me hours to mine for gold, diamonds, glowstone, blaze rods, what have you... If that gets stolen the common response is "shame on you, should have put that in an LWC chest". There doesn't seem to be a "shame on you, should have put your chest in a regioned area." Imagine the time it took to gather all of those materials that were stolen. Now imagine the time it took to build a 16x16. At the very least, having one of those taken away should be seen as equally disheartening, but depending on what was lost in that chest, it could be devastating.