Suggestion Ideas for a map

[Tenandra]

I think the idea in itself is a good one, many servers seem to take this route.

However, it somewhat changes the ethos / culture behind the server, from being an open world hashed and mangled to its populations will type of server to one that is some iconic image of just the priviledged few. Never to be destroyed, i tend to avoid such servers as they seem to want me to do things in a controlled manner. IE you build here and no where else type thing, oh and here is some scripted things we have in mind for you.

I have not been on the server long enough by a long way to get any type of barometer on the community so i may be talking out of turn, but my experience would suggest that those of us who like to go forth and set down routes in some random wild place would fear for this type of change.

Lastly, i am not altogether convinced that the only way to tame the so called blackspots on the map is to hit the problem with such a big hammer.

In short Personaly i would like to see other routes attempted first quiet a few of them.

 

[Kainzo]

At this time, there are no plans for a new "main" map. If that ever changes I'll re-open for debate.

edit: I'm re-opening this thread for discussion but changed the title. The current 'main' bastion map is staying for quite some time.

 

[archceaser]

At this time, there are no plans for a new "main" map. If that ever changes I'll re-open for debate.

edit: I'm re-opening this thread for discussion but changed the title. The current 'main' bastion map is staying for quite some time.

http://dev.bukkit.org/server-mods/rpg-npc/

i found this plugin to be very fun and easy to use, it makes npcs and quests, chains easy to do i think it would be great for more quests around the map

 

[Eldrylars]

At this time, there are no plans for a new "main" map. If that ever changes I'll re-open for debate.

edit: I'm re-opening this thread for discussion but changed the title. The current 'main' bastion map is staying for quite some time.

Thanks Kainzo,
I am not trying to step on Bastions feet but I do enjoy trying to think of different ways to do something that could possibly make things better and be compatible with as many players as possible.

 

[globjako2]

How do we get materials? Don't say go to another world because then no one would go to the main one for anything except towns.

 

[Eldrylars]

How do we mine and get materials? Don't say go to another world because then no one would go to the main one for anything except towns.

Lumber could be farmed inside a township or underground but other then that you would have to go to Forgelight or Warshard.
I have done this with my Kingdom on multiple occasions and it's far more efficient then trying to do it in Bastion.
You could still mine for ore in the main world without issue. It would just be a no surface change.

Leveling, Raiding, PvP, Exploring, Questing, Building and Mining would be main world events
Harvesting Organics, Mining, PvP, Building would be Warshard or Forgelight events.

 

[Jack_Reacher]

I think you're missing the point of the phrase "Persistent Game World"
with the multiverse plugin many great and amazing things are possible:
1) portals anywhere
2) portals to additional servers, so the main server isn't as laggy.
3) portals to additional servers hosting specific events,
3a) dungeon instance server
3b) town instance servers (quadrant based)
3c) mining map instance server (resets weekly, no lwc/blockchecking)
3d) greylist map instance server (resets once a month, no lwc/blockchecking)
3e) Quest map be the Main World. <-- this idea

should really stick into you, that this is the Hero craft server. You're a Hero so you would naturally be wanting to do a QUEST. You would find items off the things you kill, not through mining, or logging. You'd gear, get potions, experience, level, pvp, and pve on the main map. You would even add locations of lore, where people would collect books or find them and discover lore about the classes and their stories, as well as the map's histories on various versions.

There's just so much to this..

All of these ideas are great, and they can all be done WITHOUT restricting build permissions in the general world, as suggested in the OP.

 

[globjako2]

Lumber could be farmed inside a township or underground but other then that you would have to go to Forgelight or Warshard.
I have done this with my Kingdom on multiple occasions and it's far more efficient then trying to do it in Bastion.
You could still mine for ore in the main world without issue. It would just be a no surface change.

Leveling, Raiding, PvP, Exploring, Questing, Building and Mining would be main world events
Harvesting Organics, Mining, PvP, Building would be Warshard or Forgelight events.

If this idea goes through, every potential new player will be driven away. I joined this server because I loved the idea of having skills to supplement my regular gameplay. If my freedom to edit terrain and gather resources as I please is taken, then I simply wont play, and many others wouldn't either.

If I didn't have a town, and wanted to play alone with friends, I would have to go to some crappy griefed up world?
If I needed to make something or get somewhere, I couldn't?
If I'm stuck in a natural pit, or stuck mining underground because I cant build up to the surface, I'm left to die?
You're taking away the simplicity of the game.

Just because you're bored and want a new challenge, you don't have the right to make our freedom suffer.

 

[globjako2]

Good idea, just very flawed

 

[MultiHeartGold]

So you basicly want to remove the sandbox part of Minecraft and drive away all the new players who dont want an overly restricted server? (Had written a longer post with more stuff, but the thread got closed about the time I was going to post it, and didnt realize to copy.)

 

[Bob_de_Blastoise]

I think you're missing the point of the phrase "Persistent Game World"
with the multiverse plugin many great and amazing things are possible:
1) portals anywhere
2) portals to additional servers, so the main server isn't as laggy.
3) portals to additional servers hosting specific events,
3a) dungeon instance server
3b) town instance servers (quadrant based)
3c) mining map instance server (resets weekly, no lwc/blockchecking)
3d) greylist map instance server (resets once a month, no lwc/blockchecking)
3e) Quest map be the Main World. <-- this idea

should really stick into you, that this is the Hero craft server. You're a Hero so you would naturally be wanting to do a QUEST. You would find items off the things you kill, not through mining, or logging. You'd gear, get potions, experience, level, pvp, and pve on the main map. You would even add locations of lore, where people would collect books or find them and discover lore about the classes and their stories, as well as the map's histories on various versions.

There's just so much to this..

I'm a bit sceptic about the idea. I watched some videos of some terraformed land and I would enjoy living in plots located out by the countryside, but why don't we please both sides and make an adventure map, but also have a no grief main world?

 

[Xargun]

At this time, there are no plans for a new "main" map. If that ever changes I'll re-open for debate.

edit: I'm re-opening this thread for discussion but changed the title. The current 'main' bastion map is staying for quite some time.

Is there any way to pull a list of inactive players and structures they have built ? This would give a starting point to cleaning up the world. If we only get 1 world then lets clean it up. Also, perhaps there can be some admin chests in spawn to sell dirt, sand, etc... Some basic building blocks so if I need 400 sand blocks I don't have to deface the desert to get it but can simply go to spawn, buy it, and recall back. Not sure on prices, but I think something like this would work.

 

[Kainzo]

Is there any way to pull a list of inactive players and structures they have built ? This would give a starting point to cleaning up the world. If we only get 1 world then lets clean it up. Also, perhaps there can be some admin chests in spawn to sell dirt, sand, etc... Some basic building blocks so if I need 400 sand blocks I don't have to deface the desert to get it but can simply go to spawn, buy it, and recall back. Not sure on prices, but I think something like this would work.

Not possible to do

 

[Xargun]

Not possible to do

grrr - if no can do then no can do. Looks like Warshard and Forgelight will be gutted

 

[Eldrylars]

If this idea goes through, every potential new player will be driven away. I joined this server because I loved the idea of having skills to supplement my regular gameplay. If my freedom to edit terrain and gather resources as I please is taken, then I simply wont play, and many others wouldn't either.

If this went through then every potential new player would love it or hate it. From my take about 50% of the players would rather live in a more controlled space that all looks good then in a completely free place that often look terrible.
Which is why I said in one of the first lines that I expect a lot of love and a lot of hate.
What I am actually hoping for is to get ideas going for a way to achieve a consistently beautiful game world with as much freedom as possible.

If I didn't have a town, and wanted to play alone with friends, I would have to go to some crappy griefed up world?

This would not be the case with the above suggestion but it is the case with the current system. For all the love I have for chunks of Bastion it is a "crappy griefed up world"

If I needed to make something or get somewhere, I couldn't?

I suppose I don't understand how this would be the case? If you wanted to "get somewhere" you could still: Walk, run, Dragontravel, herogate, port, gtp. I don't see how you could not "get somewhere." Perhaps you mean, if you cannot piller up with a stack of dirt to get on top of a mountain? If that's what you mean then you are correct, you would actually have to climb the mountain instead of making an ugle 1x1 stack of dirt/sand/cobble to "get there"

If I'm stuck in a natural pit, or stuck mining underground because I cant build up to the surface, I'm left to die?

Do you currently mine up in a straight line when you are done mining and then walk home? I doubt it. I would guess that you recall or warp out of wherever you are mining. There would be natural entrances into the underground areas as well as your Township if you have one. As far as a natural pit is concerned that would be the job of the world builders to make sure that there are none. If months are spent terraforming and building the world then I don't see this as being an issue.

You're taking away the simplicity of the game.

Not so, I am suggesting removing some of the freedoms of the game to add immersion.

Just because you're bored and want a new challenge, you don't have the right to make our freedom suffer.

You are right I am taking it on as a challenge to see how we can solve an issues that has existed with Minecraft since the beginning. Freedom vs. Immersion.

Now I challenge you Glob, I challenge you to perticipate in a conversation to try to figure out how to give players a beautiful world with as much freedom as possible. It seems that you care for a beautiful game world as you said "I would have to go to some crappy griefed up world?" but you are blinding yourself to the fact that our world IS griefed up and that you cannot have complete freedom without that happening. So how to fix it without turning players away.

 

[Eldrylars]

So you basicly want to remove the sandbox part of Minecraft and drive away all the new players who dont want an overly restricted server? (Had written a longer post with more stuff, but the thread got closed about the time I was going to post it, and didnt realize to copy.)

Not at all. I want to find a way to restrict or somehow prevent the destruction of our main play world with restricting as little as possible.

I wish your longer post was there to consider and comment on but since it's not I will reply with saying, please donate your knowledge and thoughts on how it could be best achieved for the freedom of the player and the immersion of the world?
Do you have any suggestion to build an idea? I am not trying to say "THIS IS HOW I WANT IT!" I am trying to say "What we have is not working from an immersion or fun world standpoint. How can we fix that?"

 

[dragonzero39]

I've stated this once before and I'll state it again, Herocraft is not a babysitting service and we can't give everyone free lolipops and tell them all that they're gonna be winners. As a hardcore server, we must maintain such an attitude. We already gave new players their own world safe from older players, we cant just have renewed supplies of gold and diamonds flowing in constantly. As Kainzo stated in an alert before 1.5.1, we have to design new ways to drain some of the stagnant money and supplies off the map. And as we keep bastion running longer and longer, it becomes the players responsibility just as much as the admins responsibility to look out for the server. Designing a whole new spawn is nothing that can be done in a week, or even a month, and there are a few big tricks that the staff has that will be coming down the road. Keeping the map for a longer time allows tighter alliances, enemies, more town to join and work with. It creates a tighter community that truly gets into the game. So, I say keep Bastion for a long time, test our abilities to adapt and expand on limitations we face.

 

[xexorian]

I'm a bit sceptic about the idea. I watched some videos of some terraformed land and I would enjoy living in plots located out by the countryside, but why don't we please both sides and make an adventure map, but also have a no grief main world?

that's exactly what we're saying, except that we'd have a "no grief build world" and the "main world" would host townships, guild halls, dungeons, and open world pvp capturable objectives, like special locations or lorestones that provide bonuses of some kind to that players group of people (based on HTTP, or guild)

 

[Eldrylars]

I was really excited about to prebuilt structures then u dropped a nuke on me when u said u want there to be no surface editability. I really cannot understand why you think anyone would want this.

As I have said in previous replies people do want this. Obviously not all of them but I have had an almost exact 50% split on the idea as it currently stands. With more work and figuring out how to do it even better I am betting I could get it to 70%

The point of mc is that you can bend the world to your will, adding these restrictions would murder the server within weeks.

Yes the point of Minecraft is to bend the world to your will, The point of Herocraft is to have a roleplaying enviroment set in a Minecraft world. It's very hard to feel immersed in a roleplay enviroment with the way the main overworld currently looks.

Think about it. Noob gets whitelisted, hey there here are the server rules o and btw u cant edit the map unless under very specific circumstances. That player would disconnect immediately. Who the fuck would play on a server with such restrictions. If u want to build this badly just go to the creative server.

First I am not a builder I am only mediocre at building, I am good at terreforming but not great.
All the player that currently join the server start in a world they cannot build in to learn the systems of Herocraft. Then they get to Bastion and they still cannot build until they are whitelisted. So most starting players already experience this. One they get whitelisted and run out of Spawn what do they see in their new RPG world? Dirt and cobblestone huts, destroyed landscapes, half cut trees, random half built structures, holes everywhere. Do you not think that this being their first experience in Bastion is not worse then hearing that to build in the overland they need to find a more specific spot or to apply for a Jr Arch? "If u want to build this badly just go to the creative server." This is exactly what I would tell someone who wanted to build whatever, not what I would tell someone who wants to play an RPG.

But really, is it that important for the land to be perfectly sculpted? I am not sure if this is intended but basically this says to me, i want everything to be pretty, so gtfo, go live underground or not in the main world. U dkn't want people plopping houses randomly? It is every player's right to build a house where ever they goddamn please.

Nothing is perfect, yet as things are they are often times much worse then bad.
I am saying that I want the game more immersive. I am saying that I want a cool world to explore and find it's secrets. I want and RPG world yes. That being said I know the game we are playing and I know Minecrafts initial intentions so lets try to figure out how we could make a RPG Minecraft world more immersive with minimal restrictions on the players freedoms? As far as players "rights" as with every game the only "rights" you have are those awarded to you by the owners of the game. If Kainzo decides you have no "rights" to talk in the game you then have no rights to talk. In virtual worlds your "rights" are given and taken as the game see fit

What if i was at level 65 and wanted to buid a sword, guess what? I can't because i cant place a fucking crafting table.

This is easily resolved by having some houses/buildings/shops at the graveyards as well as things like crafting tables.

Also you forgot something, the world is not at level 60 everywhere unless it is made flat, which is pretty much taking the creative server, having it consume the main server not allowing people anywhere else to go. What if i was at level 80, how the hell am i supposed to mine if i can't go down

To build the new landmass it would start out as a normal world and then be terreformed and designed/layout and then it would be built from there. The main idea was when the server was going to be wiped that instead of randomly generating a new world we would build a new world. If you wanted to get underground you could do so from Townships, built plots and natural(or architect built) caves.

Also how the fuck are people supposed to get wood. Trees grow aboveground, unless you want to force everyone underground like moles

The idea as it currently exists would force people to mine the resource maps or their townships or the open plots.

Although this post is somewhat hostile it is not intended to offend, just question. However my opinion still stands that is possibly one of the worst suggestions i have ever heard. If you want everything to be pretty and neat go on the creative server. Don't bring the creative server here so that everyone has to look at all of the architect's buildings. It is completely useless to restrict the liberties of everyone on the server to such an abusive extent just so that people can control their ocd.

Remember, this suggestion is here to start a conversation which will hopefully help find a solution to what a lot of people feel is a problem.
This is an RPG server and as such a lot of people feel that extends not to just having classes, but having an immersive world to adventure in.
I am sure there is a place that we could all find together that would make for an immersive yet mostly open world.[/quote]

 

[Eldrylars]

I've stated this once before and I'll state it again, Herocraft is not a babysitting service and we can't give everyone free lolipops and tell them all that they're gonna be winners. As a hardcore server, we must maintain such an attitude. We already gave new players their own world safe from older players, we cant just have renewed supplies of gold and diamonds flowing in constantly. As Kainzo stated in an alert before 1.5.1, we have to design new ways to drain some of the stagnant money and supplies off the map. And as we keep bastion running longer and longer, it becomes the players responsibility just as much as the admins responsibility to look out for the server. Designing a whole new spawn is nothing that can be done in a week, or even a month, and there are a few big tricks that the staff has that will be coming down the road. Keeping the map for a longer time allows tighter alliances, enemies, more town to join and work with. It creates a tighter community that truly gets into the game. So, I say keep Bastion for a long time, test our abilities to adapt and expand on limitations we face.

I agree that Bastion still has a lot of growth potential, but as with every other world, it will end. When it does end we have an opportunity to build a world that will hopefully stand the test of time longer and be a more fun environment to enjoy.
Paragon was the first town created and it's still not a complete work. I would guess at best it's 50% of the way there so I am not advocating the replacement of Bastion anytime soon. I would say to make a proper RPG map with a dozen people working on it would be 6 months or so?