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Herogates.... removal or higher cost?

Punisher79

Support the Death Penalty
Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
I'd stick the Herogates in the extreme corners of the map, that way people have multiple routes to choose from....

Ok, and obviously it benifits me, who is stuck out in the EXTREME corner of the map... :icon_mrgreen:

and would you do away with Warps for STAFF? :icon_eek:

perhaps a SPELL or Arcane Pact with the Devil to purchase your own Herogate! Something to the effect of 50K....

Dont laugh, some people can afford it!
 

Elriond

Gold
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Location
Pennsylvania, USA
carmeops said:
i still thinks we need to let at least one herogate per kingdom (maybe even just that, and no cardinal herogate, just and only kingdom herogate)

i just remembered some of my long way walking to silverwyn before, when we didn't get a teleport system like today, and when i was avoiding paying the cost of it, i get killed sometime, but it was kinda fun to avoid murderers.

No to herogates in each kingdom! It would be basically the same thing as now since it would be protected by each other. Here's my thought, why don't you just make your kingdom AT the cardinal gate location? Problem solved if that's what you want. Just be prepared to be in a place where you'll have to fight more often.
 

Dielan9999

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Location
Temple of Melonmancy
I don't have the skillz to MSPaint diagram my idea of 8 herogates, but Dore's diagram is good too.


One thing we can agree on is we just don't need a herogate in every town. Maybe Kainzo could put the architects to work designing cool buildings in the proper areas to make the herogates in. Make it pretty and regioned. Maybe make the region bigger than the building so the people there can try to look out for hidden attackers before they jump the borders! It's like leaving the FFA and Test Server's spawn, its not hard if you just look around first, then keep moving if people really are after you.
 

Doreagarde

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Location
Canada
I crunched some numbers, had some peers look over what I have, and with some input, I think I've devised the optimal solution to a four-herogate system.

My previous model for the system put the Herogates in the middle of four square quadrants. I fleshed out the diagram a little bit in Figure 3:

fig3.png


The coordinates for the Herogates are, in this model, X=+/-1250, Z=+/-1250. This model minimizes the maximum possible walking distance (1.8km) An example of such a distance is given by the red line in the Figure, and in all further figures. The issue that I have with this model is that while the maximum walking distance is so small, the area easily accessible from Sanctum (shown by the green diamond) is also very small. Specifically, it takes up 1563 sq km, only 6.25% of the total area of the surface (25,000 sq km). This would make travel more expensive than it needs to be, because most of the world is more easily traveled only after having used a Herogate

"But wait, Doreagarde! Wouldn't the easily-accessible area around Sanctum be round, and not the diamond shape? An "easy" distance should be the same no matter what direction you go in!" That's what I thought at first too, clever reader, and I'll refer you to Figure 4 for discussion:

fig4.png


Observe how the points of the circle that intersect the axes are equidistant from both Sanctum and the Herogates (1.25km, shown by the blue lines). That much is in favour of a "round" easy-access area around sanctum. Now look at the red line. See how it's easier to get to the point where the red line and green circle intersect by using the Herogate, and not Sanctum? In fact, that point of intersection is 0.88 km from Sanctum, and only 0.37 km from the Herogate. Thus we see that not all points in a circle around Sanctum are as convenient to the spawn as they are from the Herogates.

Punisher79 said:
I'd stick the Herogates in the extreme corners of the map, that way people have multiple routes to choose from....

Ok, and obviously it benifits me, who is stuck out in the EXTREME corner of the map... :icon_mrgreen:

I gave consideration to your model as well, and I want to discuss it before moving on to my final calculations. See Figure 5:

fig5.png


With the Herogates at X=+/-2500 and Z=+/-2500, we've managed to maximize the usefulness of walking from Sanctum, by maximizing the area that is (relatively) easily-accessible from it. Specifically, that area is 12,500 sq km, or 50% of the surface. However, look what's happened to our maximum walking distance. Now, to reach the center of each border, we must walk the full 2.5 km, twice as far as the model in Figure 3. While not useful as a working model, this thought process did get me thinking about how to find a "happy medium", and I think I've done just that, in Figure 6.

fig6.png


Here, I've made a circle with R=2500 and placed the Herogates at the four points on the circle where abs(X) = abs(Z), which is 2500sin(45) and 2500*(1-sin(45)), or about +/-1768. Here, we have a balance between the maximum walking distance and the usefulness of walking from Sanctum. The Sanctum walking area is 1768x1768, or 3123 sq km, 12.5% of the total area of the map. I wanted to bring this number up to 20%, or a fifth of the map (each of the other four fifths would have a Herogate going to it), but that would mean placing each gate at +/-2236, which would mean the maximum walking distance would still be too great (2.25 km). However, Figure 6 shows a maximum walking distance of only 1.91 km.

The gates probably can't go at exactly these locations, since there are likely towns and stuff in the way, and there might be more scenic locations nearby, like dense forests or beaches or the like, where the gates might look better. And I don't care if these results get thrown out anyway, I just found the problem a pleasant diversion. The closer the gates come to +/-1768, however, the better.

[/math]
 

xpeterc1

Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Location
New York
rattmodriguez said:
i say no hero gates AT ALL, just screw them already! haha

Its all about minecart systems!

I say a whole network of Minecarts but that would put a huge strain on the sever, using the experience of our town's mine track of 3k blocks long the ride is about 5-6 mins and the amount of render is unbelievable.
-If you ride it you will understand, the cart goes faster than the map can be rendered so you will be in the void (dont worry if you stay in the minecart you will be safe) you are essentially flying through the void which is where we got the name of it.
You are free to ride it as long as someone from our town says it ok.
We are prepared if something like Herogate removal is up :)
But 6 mins to get back is still a ugg
we are running a 80% max speed design atm of the tracks.
 

RedEchoRanger

ICE ICE ICE!
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
It will be awesome to have no herogates. Wars and evil acts will be more feasible then. I make huge shipments of goods regularly so pushing everything by minecarts will be interesting. I may need to invest in some protection as well as secret trade routes.
 

Mikeman97

Wood
Joined
Apr 9, 2011
This might be a bit late for a post, but i have an idea!

I say that we keep herogates in towns and such, but make them ONE-WAY! So that you can only use them to get to sanctum, but you can't return the way you came. Also, don't add those four main herogates; MAKE THEM WALK! So, with the implementation of one-way herogates it would cause people to have to walk new players to their towns and walk back to their towns or to other towns, but at the same time it would provide towns easy access to sanctum so that shop owners and buyers are not totally screwed.

Also, if people are smart enough they can mark their town location and then once they use a portal to sanctum they can teleport back using recall.

Lastly, i think the cost should be increased to anywhere from 100-200c so that herogates to sanctum are only used when desperately needed for fast travel.
 

gabizou

Sage of World Making
Architect
Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Jan 16, 2011
After thinking about it, minecarts do tend to make you go faster than the world can generate, but I also noticed that by using a powered minecart system a la vanilla powered track, it wont be as glitchy. Of course, minecart systems would benefit greatly if lots of people put the effort to make a clean system that connects properly and has a clean station system or a system that allows for multidirectional tracks i.e. tracks that control which way you are going and prevent other people from bumping into you etc.
 

Steamed

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
didn't read everyone's comments, but I support this.
I mean, there are too many ways to travel easily. Donor banks, Herogates, /cast recall, and Minecarts. I would be happy with just /cast recall and Minecarts....(and donor banks :p)
 

weynard

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Location
Langenhagen (Hanover)
DanVonTrap said:
Dorea has a really gd idea if we are to have any herogates.
All of you that are saying "im not walking hear" ect stop your whining and build a rail system to sanctum im sure something can be arranged just like the shops there, you just want things made easy you relie too much on mods, so i for one am glade Kainzo might be taking out a lot of the herogates. it will add a challenge and suspense trying to get home with your riches not knowing who lies a head on the tracks or in the wild.

So we make herogates unappealing to use and instead implement another form of quasi-instant travel? Good thinking though. rails can actually be blockaded :icon_twisted:

I'll agree to anything that makesthe carebears get more vulnerable.
 

gabizou

Sage of World Making
Architect
Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Jan 16, 2011
weynard said:
DanVonTrap said:
Dorea has a really gd idea if we are to have any herogates.
All of you that are saying "im not walking hear" ect stop your whining and build a rail system to sanctum im sure something can be arranged just like the shops there, you just want things made easy you relie too much on mods, so i for one am glade Kainzo might be taking out a lot of the herogates. it will add a challenge and suspense trying to get home with your riches not knowing who lies a head on the tracks or in the wild.

So we make herogates unappealing to use and instead implement another form of quasi-instant travel? Good thinking though. rails can actually be blockaded :icon_twisted:

I'll agree to anything that makesthe carebears get more vulnerable.

Depends if the people can region their rail systems and make it "safe" for blockades but also some sort of gate system via pressureplates and craftbook gates..
 

Mikeman97

Wood
Joined
Apr 9, 2011
I sense underground railroad! lol

Maybe kingdoms will start making secret rail shafts and get up outposts and such. It would certainly create demand for warriors and other fighting classes once heroes is out cause we'll need guards to protect citizens riding the rails.
 
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