Suggestion HeroFactions - Basic Heroes and Factions Server.

[Dsawemd]

Recognizing that creating different game play experiences is a long term direction and goal for the server:

Assuming we are not, in terms unwritten and unsaid, allowing Survival RPG to slow/die in favor of other servers, here is my advice:

If the new server is a faster tempo (read: less grinding/Time Input= Reward) but in most other factors simplified or duplicative version of Survival RPG, then there will have to be solid incentives to remain on Survival RPG.

• The Survival RPG will trend towards PvE players, as factions is directly opposed to a PvE playstyle. Some PvPers may put in the hours of grinding to maintain an advantage, but with a faction server up and presumably running more successful PvP/Wars, Survival RPG will have less reason to PvP.

• The Factions server will trend towards PvP players, as there is little new to do in factions except sieze/defend land.

We have seen a PvP PvE split before, and that split happened when we had a higher playerbase than we do currently, and it was not possible to sustain two separate worlds.

SO

Here is a first draft of incentives that will allow us to implement a less grindy Factions server, while keeping Survival RPG alive.

1. No shared inventories between Survival RPG and any other server. Shared Coin (ie money each player has) between all servers.

2. Survival RPG remains the only server in which you can buy and use Keys. You can buy titles, pets, etc from the store and use them in Faction, but Keys/Crates remain in Survival RPG. If a Faction-Only player wants a key they can get it on Survival RPG, monetizing any items they win.

3. Survival RPG remains the only server with Boss Invasion Events etc.

4. Effects and Skills for Survival RPG will remain more complex and intense than Faction server. More fireworks, cooler skills, complex gameplay is for Survival RPG. Barebones combat and practical utility (but, Importantly, bland graphics) is for Factions.

5. HEY YOU! What other incentives do we have to keep the immersive RPG elements alive, while recognizing that the Minecraft community as whole does not trust this Mojang Game with a slower tempo gameplay? The masses want faster gratification than Herocraft has historically given them, how can we maintain our identity while meeting this demand? What do you think?



Post Script: Witchy hit the nail on the head when she pointed out the importance of a Welcoming Community. Guide+ should be given MUCH MORE FREEDOM TO MUTE when people are being dicks to new players in chat.
Tour Chat, in particular, should ONLY be Helpful.

TLR Herocraft has long been trying to branch out into various new markets, Factions is the latest version of the PvP/PvE split and must be handled carefully if we are going to get 1+1=2, instead of 1-1+(?) = (?).

 

[Lordofon]

Oi, alright I could try to accept factions with open arms, but 1 question dood...

WILL THERE BE TNT FOR THIS "HEROFACTIONS"?

 

[RegularHumanMode]

Oi, alright I could try to accept factions with open arms, but 1 question dood...

WILL THERE BE TNT FOR THIS "HEROFACTIONS"?

I would think so. That shouldn't really be a huge selling point since we have that in survival as well.

 

[xexorian]

no troll, just put on bastion map, revert all changes back to bastion no new stuff except heroes changes, get players back, let us play, profit ?????

The problem is none of this works on 1.8.9 much less 1.9 and the difficulties of trying to even upgrade code we don't have access to anymore (developers left projects and didn't give anyone creative rights to modify.) So, let's not even mention the illegality of that. The whole reason we dropped the previous township plugins is because of their failures, shortcomings, bugs, and a plethora of other issues.

Or, perhaps your squabble is with the current map? Which, in my opinion, is way more fantastic than previous maps, and larger IIRC. Towny has provided us with far more support, functionality, and control than our previous plugins were capable of. I would like to see legitimate complaints about the map if you truly feel something is wronging you there.

Aside from those honorable mentions, what other changes are you talking about?

Oi, alright I could try to accept factions with open arms, but 1 question dood...

WILL THERE BE TNT FOR THIS "HEROFACTIONS"?

I would think so. That shouldn't really be a huge selling point since we have that in survival as well.

what he said^

 

[Kainzo]

I'm allowing this thread to be left open so there can be civil dispute and conversation about improving the network.

Please be respectful, it is my dreams upon which you tread.

 

[xexorian]

Recognizing that creating different game play experiences is a long term direction and goal for the server:

Assuming we are not, in terms unwritten and unsaid, allowing Survival RPG to slow/die in favor of other servers, here is my advice:

If the new server is a faster tempo (read: less grinding/Time Input= Reward) but in most other factors simplified or duplicative version of Survival RPG, then there will have to be solid incentives to remain on Survival RPG.

• The Survival RPG will trend towards PvE players, as factions is directly opposed to a PvE playstyle. Some PvPers may put in the hours of grinding to maintain an advantage, but with a faction server up and presumably running more successful PvP/Wars, Survival RPG will have less reason to PvP.

• The Factions server will trend towards PvP players, as there is little new to do in factions except sieze/defend land.

We have seen a PvP PvE split before, and that split happened when we had a higher playerbase than we do currently, and it was not possible to sustain two separate worlds.

SO

Here is a first draft of incentives that will allow us to implement a less grindy Factions server, while keeping Survival RPG alive.

1. No shared inventories between Survival RPG and any other server. Shared Coin (ie money each player has) between all servers.

2. Survival RPG remains the only server in which you can buy and use Keys. You can buy titles, pets, etc from the store and use them in Faction, but Keys/Crates remain in Survival RPG. If a Faction-Only player wants a key they can get it on Survival RPG, monetizing any items they win.

3. Survival RPG remains the only server with Boss Invasion Events etc.

4. Effects and Skills for Survival RPG will remain more complex and intense than Faction server. More fireworks, cooler skills, complex gameplay is for Survival RPG. Barebones combat and practical utility (but, Importantly, bland graphics) is for Factions.

5. HEY YOU! What other incentives do we have to keep the immersive RPG elements alive, while recognizing that the Minecraft community as whole does not trust this Mojang Game with a slower tempo gameplay? The masses want faster gratification than Herocraft has historically given them, how can we maintain our identity while meeting this demand? What do you think?



Post Script: Witchy hit the nail on the head when she pointed out the importance of a Welcoming Community. Guide+ should be given MUCH MORE FREEDOM TO MUTE when people are being dicks to new players in chat.
Tour Chat, in particular, should ONLY be Helpful.

TLR Herocraft has long been trying to branch out into various new markets, Factions is the latest version of the PvP/PvE split and must be handled carefully if we are going to get 1+1=2, instead of 1-1+(?) = (?).

Allow me to pick apart this post, if you will. First off, the factions is a simpler dumbed down heroes, so I doubt anyone who wants complex PVP to stick to it. The leveling will be easy, the pvp will be easy, and the gameplay more fast paced. The thing is, survival PVP is too hardcore for us to attract players solely on that, combined with a pve system that is too complex for mere mortal--erm i mean new minecraft players to understand. Most of them have never played an RPG similar to our environment which is the huge choke on the survival RPG server. RPG does not mean strictly PVE. Remember that, folks.

Secondly, We might sell crates and keys on factions for the sole purpose of retaining a fluid flow of the network benefits. Titles shouldn't be restricted to just a portion of the network, however there may be different permissions assigned across each server. In other words if you have a Crate4_Title you may not retain that on Factions. Instead you would have to obtain it there (probably different titles entirely.) Pets might not also be a thing, but possibly. This is where most of our internal discussion will take place, is how we plan to grow from having a new server and how we will benefit as a network. None of the players in this discussion so far have any power in this internal discussion as it will remain internal to the staff of Herocraft Online at our discretion. This is not meant to be a negative, but I feel it necessary to state because of the mindset of some of these discussions leave out some of the factors we have to deal with as a team. Monetizing our success will be the sole responsibility of Kainzo and upper staff to creatively distribute, invent, and morph for the network's gain. (our hard work benefits you, and we are always welcome to input or suggestions, but as I said, no one understands this process quite as well as the founders, admins, and some moderators.)

Thirdly, RPG will probably be the only server where I personally would host any sort of PVE related event in the foreseeable future. I've got your back on this one.

Fourthly, I agree. Maybe not word for word, but you're on track for our plans so far with a theoretical factions server. It will be inherently simpler than survival. I have stated this more than once already.

And finally, the immersive elements of the RPG survival server are constantly changing to improve. We are always accepting input on dungeons, mobs, items, trades in spawn, and general improvements. Many have been made recently and over the past few months, and many more are to come. We plan to release Tier 7 content in the near future (I am still working on it, after I knockout some much needed love to the Tier1-Tier6 content we have already.) We are adding more complex skills and mob behavior as we can and as I have time to help do it. I would like to recruit another excellent mythicmobs scripter but the last few tries have had poor results, or people giving up. Honestly, it is a large project and most of what I have on my plate right now as the lead scripter for mobs for the network. (read, multiple servers/projects)

I believe Witchy has always had a good point with that, but Kainzo doesn't like policing the server 24/7. We are understaffed and have had issues of many people powertripping with mute powers. I am guilty of this myself, but I have learned from my mistakes. I've hardened my mettle over the months and years. It is highly discouraging to be muted (Trust me, I've been there. Literally.) to some of our more sensitive but constant pvpers. They like to smack talk, and I say, let them. It has ALWAYS been within your power to mute someone as a player. The community needs to change and needs to take responsibility for who they involve themselves with on our server. We give you this power as it is only one, logical, and two, reasonable. For reference, please find your /gignore and /ignore commands at your disposal. It is far more satisfying to ignore the troll and, even more utterly fascinating to kill them while they're ignored. (Trust me, I've been there. Literally.) The community must take certain actions into it's own hands.

Upon further reflection--Perhaps, placing a few more signs in the tutorial, and the occasional server messages to inform players they can ignore and globally ignore players on the network. I will look into this change.

I agree. We should carefully implement the server, in the same breath, however I am not worried about the implications to the network or to survival. It has been here for a LONG time. I've been here for most of that journey. I'm still here. I never quit Herocraft. I'll probably be here when Kainzo finally decides to close the doors and let the dust settle in. Even then I might still linger. I have a problem, OK?

 

[GodOfGales]

Oh man, this is sweet. To bad I haven't even had a chance to hop on and see Creative yet even. I miss Herocraftttttt

 

[MunchlaxHero]

You also have too look at who came back this map so far. TC played for about half the map, 2-3 Freeps have been here the whole time, LO played for half the map and even a few Umbras played for a 3-4 weeks. They have not given up hope, otherwise they would not have bothered to log in at all. If we actually give them a reason to play they will, a lot of the community still hang out together and are waiting for HC to have the experience they had in the past, why try to draw in new people when there is proof that the old ones still exist. I have thought about this faction server for a while now, I did not believe it could work, but looking more and more into it. IF done correctly it could save the server. DO NOT simplify heroes for it, the PvPers from the past and present play this server because it is like no other PvP server, I want all skills or almost all. PvP on everywhere except spawn, quick leveling at swamps, no custom crafting, enchant at a table and nothing kept on death. Everyone that I have talked to LOVED the siege server back on Aegis, it was for one week but it reminded all of us how the good times were, how fast it was, how PvP was fluid. This is what we would like to see. Yes I am speaking for others but the proof is there, they tried out the server and did not have the experience they hoped for and left. @Kainzo

 

[MunchlaxHero]

I do agree that this server should be simple with everything except the PvP, that is what brought us the numbers in Bastion and that is what would bring them back. Simple as it was in siege, keep the profs, still believe those are good add on, throw out the loot drops, vanilla mobs, no plugins that are not necessary, have the Bastion deathchest system or none at all and fast leveling.

 

[Lordofon]

yeah dood I wanna fight the other "top pvpers" like i0range and munch right now! I don't wanna grind because I don't have the time unfortunately dood. CAM ONNN
have a can of ravioli

 

[RegularHumanMode]

I do agree that this server should be simple with everything except the PvP, that is what brought us the numbers in Bastion and that is what would bring them back. Simple as it was in siege, keep the profs, still believe those are good add on, throw out the loot drops, vanilla mobs, no plugins that are not necessary, have the Bastion deathchest system or none at all and fast leveling.

Why wouldn't the combat be simplified? People who enjoy factions generally enjoy a simplified experience in general. Heck, most of the just have MCMMO which is leagues behind Heroes as far as complexity. Keep in mind we are bringing in an enirely new community rather than drawing from the current one, and the new players will most likely like different things.

You are more suggesting things you would prefer to change about the current survival server.

 

[Aryios]

I had brought up this Idea to Kainzo in the past and I like it, I've also played some heroes faction servers in the past. Herocraft needs new players and this could help bring new players into the system. Minecraft had a lot of younger players start playing these past few years but they like to play on servers with stuff like factions.
I had a lot more fun on herocraft when things were much simpler but every map things just keep getting more and more complex. When I've tried to play on other rpg servers they were too complex for me. Just like me younger minecraft players have a hard time getting into it and it just overwhelms them.

I had suggested to Kainzo to keep things simple and just have them ease into it. If they end up liking it maybe they would hop into Herocraft and help boost the population. Some of you seem worried about it causing issues with splitting the population. I can see why your worried but people who play hc now play it for the community and the heroes plugin.
The people that like to play the pve aspect of hc would not have fun getting their faction destroyed constantly. The pvp side will at some point try it out but for how long who knows.

Heroes is the main selling point of this, they basicly are playing the trial version. Heroes is the only reason why I keep coming back and playing Minecraft and I've gotten bored of Minecraft. I'm sure a lot of other herocrafters are like this as well but I get bored when the population starts to thin out. I think having a Heroes faction server would be fun to play for a while, like I said i've played a few in the past. They were fun but did not last that long because hosting servers cost money.

 

[Trazil]

I played a heroes faction server in the past... Probably around I think DG? It was very successful, there was always PVP and resources were easy to come by but still valued. Money wasn't worth much, but then again the server wasn't about economies but it was totally focused towards PVP. I spent countless hours into that server and even though I died constantly (horrible laptop) the PVP was exciting and I never really lost something I couldn't get back in an hour or two. That's what I would like in hc, constant PVP and resources that are abundant, maybe keep those rare drops, but no speed armor or insane sharpness. A factions server I feel like COULD be a great compromise between Kainzo and the PVPers that linger in the community waiting for the thrill they once got. My suggestion is that only pvpers design it, of course it would be looked over by the admins and Kainzo. Design may be the wrong world... But in essence it would be nice to get a world for the old "hardcore" hc pvpers that went with changes they wanted. Yes it may be dumbed down from darkmasters and sharp 11 weapons dropping, but not to the point that some are suggesting. It's HC at its finest, in our eyes.

 

[ytiggidmas]

When most veterans look back they look at Bastion as the most fun they've had. But it's not just all the changes that happened that screwed it up, it's also the changes that didn't happen that screwed it up. I can without a doubt say that 99% of the veterans would be willing to come back if we saw something better come around, but the way Herocraft is now just seems too complicated, too much of a grind, and just too much time and dedication for the veterans to come back. For example most of Umbra now is in the work force with their own lives, families, educations, and careers to pursue. I'll keep it short and sweet why Bastion was such a success
1. The community(TC, FC, and UMB used to camp the fuck out of towns, steal, and kill until fights would start)
The community was large and often had 100ish people on the server at a time. With the map starting at 2000x2000 in Bastion, we were able to run into one another randomly, and often had random encounters with each other to start up wars, and battles. I don't know what the size of the map is now, but the point is, when we get these huge adventure maps, and sometimes multiple servers, we ruin the chance of running into one another, and overall decrease the chances of pvp of happening. PVP=FUN,
2. Townships
Townships back then meant a lot more than the shit plugin that's implemented now. Sure the system sucked back then, but it meant gathering materials, money, and in most cases a group of people all rushing to get all of them together so they could get a town started. Having rules about box towns, and ugly ass towns meant people putting more effort into their towns, which meant bonding and that kind of shit to build something meaningful. Now i'm sure it's even worse with the way towns look, now it's probably all underground rooms, with no care for looks whatsoever
3.Glitching and Exploiting
Glitching and exploiting was very common in bastion. We used to use the most unethical and illegal ways to get into peoples bases, so we could actually steal shit since stealing and getting into people's bases was basically impossible with LWC's and the sort. (I did a damn good job at making umbra secure)Not to mention all the duping that happened, meant we didn't have to work for shit. We didn't have to grind, and that's what made it so we could pvp 24/7. I personally didn't(because i didn't know how lol) but most towns engaged in duping gold, or spawn eggs as a means for unlimited cash, and exp. We died and would lose our shit, just to grab another set of duped shit and go out and fight again. There was no risk back then for going out and fucking around with your buddies and even organizing teamfights for the hell of it. For fucks sake, most of the videos on my channel from Bastion were ORGANIZED. FUCKING ORGANIZED. That alone should say something. We didn't do it back then to gain anything, we did it because we loved to pvp, and to have fun.
4. The Classes
Bastion Classes were all so overpowered to the point it was balanced. I loved the combat back then because making a single mistake in skill order, or missing something meant game over. Combat was fast, and if you fucked up, you paid the price. People were constantly getting one shot, and just utterly destroyed, and it was just awesome. It meant for exhilarating combat, that everyone loved. I know it sounds stupid, but you know what's more stupid? Fucking slapping each other around for 5 minutes, and not having a result because of the class changes that lowered damaged and extended combat time. The whole making fighting time longer was just fucking stupid. People were able to escape so much more often with the lag spikes(oh we loved that too). I know i'm just ranting here, but back in bastion, we really were able to separate the good pvpers from the exceptional pvpers. People who actually knew their classes, could shit on any of the other classes without a problem. We used to even beat the cheaters because they just didn't know how to use skills, but only used shit like forcefield and the autoaim shit.

Honestly overall, the reason why the cool kids stopped playing is cause we stopped having fun. We got bored of grinding the same classes for the same little risk and zero reward bullshit. We stopped organizing fights, and stopped having fun.(Organized fights as in "hey meet us at x place wtih y people to fight?")Townships went to shit(because of the plugin, and the effort from townships), we hardly ran into one another because of the several servers, and maps(PVE, Mining maps i'm looking at you). Attributes was cool for a bit, but hardly actually had any meaningful differences to separate one's class from somebody else's. The custom items were cool back in Haven but once they started becoming township requirements it became bullshit because you would have such a little chance of getting certain items. There was just a ton of focus on other things than what the pvpers wanted, and that's exactly why we left. Herocraft has notoriously focused on things that we didn't give a flying fuck about and neglected what we did.

The things neglected were:
1. Incentive to pvp(FUCK that stupid leaderboard, we want to steal each others shit. TNT isn't enough, we want Cannons, lockpicks- for lwcs, and COOL THINGS- hell maybe even rocket boots to fly, or battering rams to destroy walls- fucking anything really, just use some common sense ffs)
2. Towns(Towns used to be large groups because of the amount of effort required to create and maintain them, rules to regulate box and undergound towns should be in place, towns should get audited, and the prettiest one's should be rewarded.)
3. Raiding (on the off chance people do run into each other, there needs to be a consequence, you lose a battle or war- your town gets sacked, and people get raped)
4. Playerbase- for fucks sake, invest some fucking money into advertising, and an actually good reward system for voting. Throw a donor tier or something so that way we can get up there, and stay up there on the minecraft server sites.
5.MAP SIZE- oh my god, all these 8000 block maps means nobody is going to run into each other. Random encounters are so exciting, and created some of my best memories on bastion. Make the map smaller, so we can actually run to each others towns within 5 minutes.

edit: just my two cents bitches

 

[MunchlaxHero]

When most veterans look back they look at Bastion as the most fun they've had. But it's not just all the changes that happened that screwed it up, it's also the changes that didn't happen that screwed it up. I can without a doubt say that 99% of the veterans would be willing to come back if we saw something better come around, but the way Herocraft is now just seems too complicated, too much of a grind, and just too much time and dedication for the veterans to come back. For example most of Umbra now is in the work force with their own lives, families, educations, and careers to pursue. I'll keep it short and sweet why Bastion was such a success
1. The community(TC, FC, and UMB used to camp the fuck out of towns, steal, and kill until fights would start)
The community was large and often had 100ish people on the server at a time. With the map starting at 2000x2000 in Bastion, we were able to run into one another randomly, and often had random encounters with each other to start up wars, and battles. I don't know what the size of the map is now, but the point is, when we get these huge adventure maps, and sometimes multiple servers, we ruin the chance of running into one another, and overall decrease the chances of pvp of happening. PVP=FUN,
2. Townships
Townships back then meant a lot more than the shit plugin that's implemented now. Sure the system sucked back then, but it meant gathering materials, money, and in most cases a group of people all rushing to get all of them together so they could get a town started. Having rules about box towns, and ugly ass towns meant people putting more effort into their towns, which meant bonding and that kind of shit to build something meaningful. Now i'm sure it's even worse with the way towns look, now it's probably all underground rooms, with no care for looks whatsoever
3.Glitching and Exploiting
Glitching and exploiting was very common in bastion. We used to use the most unethical and illegal ways to get into peoples bases, so we could actually steal shit since stealing and getting into people's bases was basically impossible with LWC's and the sort. (I did a damn good job at making umbra secure)Not to mention all the duping that happened, meant we didn't have to work for shit. We didn't have to grind, and that's what made it so we could pvp 24/7. I personally didn't(because i didn't know how lol) but most towns engaged in duping gold, or spawn eggs as a means for unlimited cash, and exp. We died and would lose our shit, just to grab another set of duped shit and go out and fight again. There was no risk back then for going out and fucking around with your buddies and even organizing teamfights for the hell of it. For fucks sake, most of the videos on my channel from Bastion were ORGANIZED. FUCKING ORGANIZED. That alone should say something. We didn't do it back then to gain anything, we did it because we loved to pvp, and to have fun.
4. The Classes
Bastion Classes we're all so overpowered to the point it was balanced. I loved the combat back then because making a single mistake in skill order, or missing something meant game over. Combat was fast, and if you fucked up, you paid the price. People were constantly getting one shot, and just utterly destroyed, and it was just awesome. It meant for exhilarating combat, that everyone loved. I know it sounds stupid, but you know what's more stupid? Fucking slapping each other around for 5 minutes, and not having a result because of the class changes that lowered damaged and extended combat time. The whole making fighting time longer was just fucking stupid. People were able to escape so much more often with the lag spikes(oh we loved that too). I know i'm just ranting here, but back in bastion, we really were able to separate the good pvpers from the exceptional pvpers. People who actually knew their classes, could shit on any of the other classes without a problem. We used to even beat the cheaters because they just didn't know how to use skills, but only used shit like forcefield and the autoaim shit.

Honestly overall, the reason why the cool kids stopped playing is cause we stopped having fun. We got bored of grinding the same classes for the same little risk and zero reward bullshit. We stopped organizing fights, and stopped having fun.(Organized fights as in "hey meet us at x place wtih y people to fight?")Townships went to shit(because of the plugin, and the effort from townships), we hardly ran into one another because of the several servers, and maps(PVE, Mining maps i'm looking at you). Attributes was cool for a bit, but hardly actually had any meaningful differences to separate one's class from somebody else's. The custom items were cool back in Haven but once they started becoming township requirements it became bullshit because you would have such a little chance of getting certain items. There was just a ton of focus on other things than what the pvpers wanted, and that's exactly why we left. Herocraft has notoriously focused on things that we didn't give a flying fuck about and neglected what we did.

The things neglected were:
1. Incentive to pvp(FUCK that stupid leaderboard, we want to steal each others shit. TNT isn't enough, we want Cannons, lockpicks- for lwcs, and COOL THINGS- hell maybe even rocket boots to fly, or battering rams to destroy walls- fucking anything really, just use some common sense ffs)
2. Towns(Towns used to be large groups because of the amount of effort required to create and maintain them, rules to regulate box and undergound towns should be in place, towns should get audited, and the prettiest one's should be rewarded.)
3. Raiding (on the off chance people do run into each other, there needs to be a consequence, you lose a battle or war- your town gets sacked, and people get raped)
4. Playerbase- for fucks sake, invest some fucking money into advertising, and an actually good reward system for voting. Throw a donor tier or something so that way we can get up there, and stay up there on the minecraft server sites.
5.MAP SIZE- oh my god, all these 8000 block maps means nobody is going to run into each other. Random encounters are so exciting, and created some of my best memories on bastion. Make the map smaller, so we can actually run to each others towns within 5 minutes.

edit: just my two cents bitches

This sums up majority of my statement, so Sam, quick question, for this factions server would you want simple PvP, 3-4 skills and only 4-5 classes or PvP with the classes we have and simplify everything else, make leveling easier, no custom items, everything drop on death, no attributes, etc.

 

[0xNaomi]

Jack of all trades master none, is better than a master of one.

I like to think of herocraft as the Bard of the group.

Last I checked, a solo bard isn't terribly helpful, and HC has no group, it just is.

Adding in servers to attract a different playerbase is certainly a possibility, and I won't argue that 1+1=2, however I feel Factions treads a bit close to the current playerbase.
As was already stated, if you have a simpler, faster-to-level Heroes... why would any PvPer stay on RPG?

If it was spread out into a different category where it could be unique, that's fine, but you're slapping Survival/PvP on a Survival/PvP server.
Sure, they have a different pace and world logic, but that's not enough to differentiate it as something that appears to be its own thing.
All I see from is it mix-up of players and confusion to newbies ("towny and factions, why are there two, why are they different, I just wanna level and fight").
Another as-already-stated, even if it does take off (being hardcore-er like older maps) it would effectively become the PvP/PvE split again, except even more confusing and less clear.

Granted, I'll admit I don't know what would work, just that this feels like it wouldn't.
Heroes-powered minigames, maybe? Even a PvP minigame (with no leveling, no Survival) would probably take less from the current playerbase than the suggested server.

 

[ytiggidmas]

This sums up majority of my statement, so Sam, quick question, for this factions server would you want simple PvP, 3-4 skills and only 4-5 classes or PvP with the classes we have and simplify everything else, make leveling easier, no custom items, everything drop on death, no attributes, etc.

it doesn't matter what we want. Herocraft goes it's own path. With that said i'm all for a class system like we had in Bastion. Thing is, the exact same classes and skillls means the same exact game. We don't want that, it'd be nice to see new classes, that aren't derived from classes we've been seeing from the four past years. Being able to straight away choose a class instead of going through a base path would be a good idea, and having the 4 branches would be a good idea(healer,mage,warrior,rogue) but this time entirely different classes. We absolutely need new classes in those 4 branches. Dumbed down may be a good idea, but at the same time doing that turns herocraft into every other basic faction server. Having around 8ish skills to a max level of 50 seems enough but the 50 should be able to be obtained after a reasonable amount of grinding. There needs to be more ways to raid towns, and steal from them. I've seen in the past lockpicks used as a donor perk, and it worked amazingly. There was a percentage chance you could open a locked chest, with an iron ingot, and it would damage you if it broke on you. I loved the lockpick system, and it's a great way to introduce stealing from chests. Maybe introducing it as a custom item would be good. Dirt on top of a chest shouldn't be the ultimate protectiion, there needs to be a work around for that too, maybe bombs or a drill. That's all I have to say

 

[MunchlaxHero]

So I think can sum up what PvPers want out of factions. Same PvP that is right now with a little more extreme values like in Bastion, potions, emeralds, diamonds, no left out skills, remove custom crafting and custom drops, either completely remove attributes or simplify them, bring back "picky deathchests" (they do not spawn in water or in air, and you have to have a chest and sign on you) or have everything drop instantly, do not get anything back once you die, limit the plugins so we can focus on the PvP, either remove professions or simplify them down, faster leveling, more ways to loot factions, bring back skill engrave, and no custom mobs. The point is to get back to HC's roots, fast Heroes PvP, not simple, you can already see people want it Kainzo. I have spoken with other vets and they would enjoy this, we all loved siege for its pure PvP and everything else that was absent. @Kainzo Make this happen. And once you see the numbers increase we should start developing new classes.

 

[Trazil]

And we want Smith to be able to name weapons for funny weapon names in chat again!

 

[LordZelkova]

Last I checked, a solo bard isn't terribly helpful, and HC has no group, it just is.

Adding in servers to attract a different playerbase is certainly a possibility, and I won't argue that 1+1=2, however I feel Factions treads a bit close to the current playerbase.
As was already stated, if you have a simpler, faster-to-level Heroes... why would any PvPer stay on RPG?

If it was spread out into a different category where it could be unique, that's fine, but you're slapping Survival/PvP on a Survival/PvP server.
Sure, they have a different pace and world logic, but that's not enough to differentiate it as something that appears to be its own thing.
All I see from is it mix-up of players and confusion to newbies ("towny and factions, why are there two, why are they different, I just wanna level and fight").
Another as-already-stated, even if it does take off (being hardcore-er like older maps) it would effectively become the PvP/PvE split again, except even more confusing and less clear.

Granted, I'll admit I don't know what would work, just that this feels like it wouldn't.
Heroes-powered minigames, maybe? Even a PvP minigame (with no leveling, no Survival) would probably take less from the current playerbase than the suggested server.

Think less combat bard, more ooc bard.
In DnD I always play OOC Bard, it's fun for me and my group appreciates it.
I can make near any saving throw for any skill.
And provide helpful support via Cantrips and the occasional Cure Minor Wounds.

How I mean this with Herocraft:
I'd rather see 3-4 Servers (Creative, Live, RPG, incoming Factions) all have players and function and allow people to enjoy different playstyles, while still being able to stay on HC, and easily transition between playstyles, over having one stagnant Survival type. I enjoyed bastion, I did. But I like change, Bastion felt stagnant for me. 90% sure I left because it was always the same people doing the same stuff. Sure, it's not as populous as it once was, but Kainzo and the others working on the changes do so because change is needed. Switch to Bastion-Style won't magically bring back the old numbers. Much has changed, both with HC and those players.

Tl;Dr: Herocraft should do many things, who cares about groups, bastion wasn't all gold, change is good.