Suggestion HeroFactions - Basic Heroes and Factions Server.

[MunchlaxHero]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I feel like there's a bit of misunderstanding about the proposed Factions server and the Factions server that everyone else like Egorb, Munch, Irish, etc are thinking about resulting in the kerfuffle above ^. I feel that Kain, I, and others have thought of this moreso as an actual Factions server dumbed down with light RPG aspects for flavor. Whereas the Factions server that a many of the pvpers are hyping themselves up for is actually just the regular survival server minus the changes implemented after haven, and the replacement of towny with factions as a land protection plugin.

I get what you mean, but is that the right choice? It seems majority of the veterans just want it to be like Bastion. I get you are trying to attract more people to this server, but will they come and stay for simple heroes? NO, a lot of other servers have already done something like simple heroes, Classes that only have 4-5 skills so instead of trying to do that, why don't we give people the more complex heroes that will make them stay. Simple RPG classes have been done way too much, the complex RPG classes, not so much.

 

[Kainzo]

As stated in the post, it was a first draft. Not a final copy. I stated clearly that no class would be better than any other class in terms of power.

Also, I am more than happy with release all classes at once but they wont be "pristine" or super tuned.

I feel like we need to diversify ourselves but simply having the same classes in the same setup, wont be enough to separate from Survival RPG.

 

[joshtsai]

I'm going to have to agree with Irish and friends on this one. I think releasing the classes we have now will encourage older players to come back and play the classes they loved, and have a huge diversity of classes to entice new players. Other similar concepts all have a small pool of classes not adding much to the factions experience. But having the full gambit of classes will be new and fresh. I saw some new classes in the framework, those I can see coming in on a later patch.(pirate, new shaman etc). @Egorb is right, with lots of people playing the classes, balance of them will be more easily addressed.

 

[Zelphril]

All classes should be released at the start. It's the most interesting thing about this server, removing classes would just cause harm.

 

[ytiggidmas]

Class System - WIP

A horizontal class system, no super specializations, every class is on the same "power" level, no matter its cost or required mastery of other classes.

Below is a first draft of the SIMPLE but EXPANSIVE class system. Note that classes are unlocked by using the fast leveling system and some classes will be released in patches so it gives players time to master.

The goal is to release classes and balance them on a schedule. There will be no specializations, users will go from Lost Soul and choose BER / NIN / ARC / CLR / WIZ ---- from there once patch 1 is released, they will be able to start weaving classes (mastering a class to become another class)

Class swap costs will be greatly reduced (100c) (you get 25-50c to vote per day)
Faster leveling will make this more desirable
Will give users a feeling of completion when becoming classes that require other classes to master.
We will be able to bring out more classes that dont follow the whole "path system" like in survival rpg.


This is not a final print and is considered a rough draft of the system, each class would be limited to 8-10 skills.

Honestly, while this system looks neat on paper it's just unnecessary. I think the community doesn't want to see a system like that, but rather just wants new classes, and new skills. We want combat to be fun again, to discover new classes and the gameplay opportunities that come with them. I think limiting skills is actually going to have the opposite effect than bringing a new crowd to Herocraft, and just get bland like the past maps because we've already seen everything. This will be especially so if the factions plugin, and combat/raiding system is out of the box, and not something done correctly. If anything is going to be half-assed this time around, it really really shouldn't be the classes. Creating new classes is fun, and the community loves to do it. Even using old skills to create different classes could be done easily, and be an extremely fun experience. It's something I used to do for fun back when I thought of making a server, and I know it's easy. Herocraft has been sporting about 12 of the same classes for the past 5 years. It's about time we changed shit up

edit: I just wanted to make it clear, I do not support "simplified classes". Classes really aren't that complicated, and making them more simplified will not suddenly make combat any better

 

[RegularHumanMode]

Honestly, while this system looks neat on paper it's just unnecessary. I think the community doesn't want to see a system like that, but rather just wants new classes, and new skills. We want combat to be fun again, to discover new classes and the gameplay opportunities that come with them. I think limiting skills is actually going to have the opposite effect than bringing a new crowd to Herocraft, and just get bland like the past maps because we've already seen everything. This will be especially so if the factions plugin, and combat/raiding system is out of the box, and not something done correctly. If anything is going to be half-assed this time around, it really really shouldn't be the classes. Creating new classes is fun, and the community loves to do it. Even using old skills to create different classes could be done easily, and be an extremely fun experience. It's something I used to do for fun back when I thought of making a server, and I know it's easy. Herocraft has been sporting about 12 of the same classes for the past 5 years. It's about time we changed shit up

edit: I just wanted to make it clear, I do not support "simplified classes". Classes really aren't that complicated, and making them more simplified will not suddenly make combat any better

There are pros and cons to having complex classes. The pros are that combat gives a bit more freedom instead of the same loop of skills over and over again. Plus, it evens the playing field of skill vs gear. The cons are that it can be confusing to new players.

I honestly think about 8 or 9 skills is a good number. It presents variety but you will have less people fumbling around through macros trying to find the right move.

As for the number of classes I agree that there should be all classes on launch. PvP should be geared more towards getting right into the fight. Not many players would want to wait for the classes they like, and not many want to level two or three other classes before they get what they want. If it gave a more vertical versus horizontal reward it would make sense, but I really do not recommend doing that (there's like a 99% chance you already know that, but I had to complete the thought). Everything about the PvP server should be relatively fast paced. The combat (no five minute 1v1s), the leveling (minimize the grind), and being able to choose a class.

As for making the server actually immersive, with a PvP style server I really believe that is mainly the community's job. If you get on a factions server itching for PvP and you see one group killing off everyone you will either join that group or you leave. If you have an intense rivalry between five different factions, that is when PvP is at its best. All the owner can do is make sure the systems in place are the best they can be.

 

[LordZelkova]

There are pros and cons to having complex classes. The pros are that combat gives a bit more freedom instead of the same loop of skills over and over again. Plus, it evens the playing field of skill vs gear. The cons are that it can be confusing to new players.

I honestly think about 8 or 9 skills is a good number. It presents variety but you will have less people fumbling around through macros trying to find the right move.

As for the number of classes I agree that there should be all classes on launch. PvP should be geared more towards getting right into the fight. Not many players would want to wait for the classes they like, and not many want to level two or three other classes before they get what they want. If it gave a more vertical versus horizontal reward it would make sense, but I really do not recommend doing that (there's like a 99% chance you already know that, but I had to complete the thought). Everything about the PvP server should be relatively fast paced. The combat (no five minute 1v1s), the leveling (minimize the grind), and being able to choose a class.

As for making the server actually immersive, with a PvP style server I really believe that is mainly the community's job. If you get on a factions server itching for PvP and you see one group killing off everyone you will either join that group or you leave. If you have an intense rivalry between five different factions, that is when PvP is at its best. All the owner can do is make sure the systems in place are the best they can be.

I wouldn't mind seeing the class system tweaked and put onto Survival.
It's a really cool RPG tree like system. Mastering Zerker and Necro to become a Dreadknight feels RPGy to me.

Though for factions, I'd rather see all classes put up front on the table.

 

[RegularHumanMode]

I wouldn't mind seeing the class system tweaked and put onto Survival.
It's a really cool RPG tree like system. Mastering Zerker and Necro to become a Dreadknight feels RPGy to me.

Though for factions, I'd rather see all classes put up front on the table.

Yeah, exactly, the system is more geared for an RPG Survival server instead of an intense hardcore PvP one.

 

[ytiggidmas]

@Egorb has a lot of really good posts here. I agree with nearly all of them. Thanks for adding