Heroes... we need to talk.

[xexorian]

^ That makes no sense. Why do crafters have to forfeit combat abilities? at all? Why do fighters have to forfeit crafting abilities? at all? Why does it have to be one or the other? why isn't it both?

You basically stated an opinion in strong opposition but didn't give a thorough reason behind it.

EDIT:

For example, are there economic reasons why you think it should be the way you described it?

Are there role play reasons?

Are there any other reasons that would possibly, faintly, remotely, make sense?

Your setup? EDIT: I see what you mean, but it's not SINGLING OUT CRAFTERS. Take another look at what they're saying. Crafters ''Path'' will compliment your Combat classes. Think of Crafting in this regard as a Profession, or additional talent tree which unlocks unique abilities, and combat abilities.

We need a concise change log for the entire Heroes plugin on class changes/balance changes. But a quick look through and you can easily combine the mechanics of each class to benefit one another independently while leveling.

in example:

Using your crafting specialization will unlock benefits to your combat specialization, IE: the ability to use higher end 'weapons', (pickaxe, axe, hoe, sword, shovel)

Your actual path specialization into combat would then unlock your armor types, combat skills, and your path would unlock the first set of armor types, and combat skills.

What I'm typing is very specific. Please read it through and give it long educated thought before replying.
I made a post earlier with a great leveling example of an alchemist leveling. (Minor tweaking needed.)

EDIT2: In this system, it is true that some combat classes would suffer until they raise their crafting skills up, but I think to be fair the levels I posted on the previous post about this were low enough to be obtained in a short amount of time, and would only promote healthy server growth.

So what if you don't like digging, logging, crafting, why the ---- are you playing minecraft? PVP -> ONLY? <-??

Please.

 

[Gondus]

I still stand on my idea as secondary spec only get half the skills, should make everyone happy in my opinion. How bout we add that to the forum poll and see what people think....(Though all main pvp'ers will pick Smith, but with no Repair All, it shouldn't be a problem with my setup)

Edit: Shouldn't say my setup since i'm practically stealing it from 4-5 different mmo's....meh..

I don't think they are complaining about that. I think they are miffed because they are losing there uniqueness. I'm not saying you can't max the class out or anything. Its just their primary will have skills that your secondary doesn't. I think having a crafting and combat class is an awesome idea and gives you incentive to play more since your doing more then grinding mobs all day long. You have a choice to level your crafting specialization too. Although with this suggestion, people don't get everything of both the crafting and the combat worlds. You have to choose which you would like to have most of. Although like i said, 90 percent of the pvp'ers are going smithing.

 

[toadsworth29]

When you choose your path, you choose what you want to do. The goal of Heroes is to give player abilities relevant to their class to create a stronger RPG. Why should Crafting be belittled into almost a secondary path? Why not give Paladins Necro abilities?
Sorry if it comes out a little ramble-ish; I'm half-focused on homework atm.
EDIT: Gondus, beat me to it. I kinda like your idea. Maybe all classes can be chosen as a secondary spec, singling out Crafters seems a little unfair.

 

[Farroes]

i really find it kind of hard to believe anyone would oppose this, it lets everyone enjoy all aspects of the game, which is something I am very glad to be able to do again.

people who chose crafter should be stoked they arent easy kills anymore, and combat classes should enjoy the chance to use pistons, lifts, birdges, cauldrons or whatever spec they choose.

 

[Papabear20xd6]

^ agreed. And those saying that they this is just adding more pvp wtf? If you dont want to pvp hide in your town. Now if it actually gets raided you can have the skills to defend yourself as opposed to complaining about the lack of survivability. I also don't see how anyone can be opposed to this. Great idea and I also like the idea of potentially only getting half of the abilities. Still keeping the idenity of the crafters while giving everyone a taste of what they don't have

 

[Dielan9999]

PVE is the downfall of all crafters.

This suggestion would benefit crafters, even more than it benefits the non-crafters.

Besides, the economy would be better with added competition. It would make heroes more like regular minecraft! In SSP you must balance PVE, crafting, and building.

With PVE/PVP, crafting, and building in Heroes today:

you can only pick two!

It should not be this way. What Kainzo has suggested is a big step in the right direction.

 

[Kingtom404]

This idea seems to... Blur the lines that seperate each UNIQUE class. I don't like it.

This is complete IDIOCY. Now, I am back at home (Yay) and Can make sure you bunch of idiot see the light, because it seems it's National Do Stupid Things while Tom's at School Day. So, last time I checked, Herocraft was HARDCORE. Now, this may have changed, so if it did, please ignore the rest of my post. Most of the people on the internet, only care about themselves. Which means, you all want things easier. Again, I didn't know Herocraft was now a Easycore server. You wanna pvp as a crafter? Tough Luck, You can't get everything. You want to build complex shit as a pvp class? Sucks to be you, your not a crafter. Your a crafter? Tired of getting killed? Then build a Town? Join a Town? Nobody can steal from your shop, so if you see a bunch of raiders coming into your shop, the worst that can happen is.... You sell or buy some things. God Forbid you actually do buisness. Most of you act like Pvp classes can't even place or destroy blocks. You can't do complex shit, deal with it. Crafters, you act like you get killed standing inside your nice home. Don't go OUTSIDE if It's A) Night, or B) A raid Happening. Basically, most of you are being selfish little pricks, saying "I want that too~ It's not fair that HE has it and I don't!" DEAL WITH IT. And please, don't spam this thread with poor excuses defending yourselves from being selfish. If you can't handle constructive with criticism with a little bit of rage, then you should get off the Internet. Thanks.

Nobody seems to have any defense against my onslaught.

It's not messy, notice I almost always use correct grammar, disregarding caps. I need to make emphasis on some words with only typing... I don't have a voice inflection key on my keyboard, sorry.

I guess It's merely based upon Opinion. I believe everyone should be 90% something, and 10% another. Not 90% something, and 90% another, and 90% another. Then everyone is running around with everything and hardly anything is unique. I think if you REALLY need this, it should be a 6th path that is 50% combat, and 50% Pvp. Not EVERY Class.

EDIT: We are all Idiots, and you know it. Did I ever ONCE on this WHOLE forums EVER say I was NOT an idiot?

Jesus Christ, this is the INTERNET. No need to whine about a little Rage. If you just Ignored that part, and actually read and thought upon my post, then you might see my point. Also, I can't just edit my post Kainzo, else nobody would know if I responded... Anywho, you guys need to stop getting hung up with my use of insults. It's the internet, don't take any insults on the internet seriously.

 

[Dielan9999]

This idea seems to... Blur the lines that seperate each UNIQUE class. I don't like it.

Not really.

Imagine all the possible combos. Every single class with 1/4 former crafter specs! That's alot of combos.

It give hardcore crafters PVE

and give people who didn't go crafter (or didn't stay crafter because its such a hard life) the crafter abilities they always wanted!

I just re-specialized from a ranger to a crafter.Will you give refunds back to those who have recently changed their specialization? For this is quite unfair to others in the same situation.

I feel like this will make herocraft at least 20% cooler. It will add balance! Also kainzo, will the crafters who are already crafters keep their crafter level and level their Combat spec?

These two points are very valid @Kainzo
What will you do about people who are already crafters?

 

[Iarbobray]

I feel like this will make herocraft at least 20% cooler. It will add balance! Also kainzo, will the crafters who are already crafters keep their crafter level and level their Combat spec?

 

[nmtonj]

I just re-specialized from a ranger to a crafter.Will you give refunds back to those who have recently changed their specialization? For this is quite unfair to others in the same situation.

 

[Alator]

I initially voted no because it felt like it was going against having 5 paths. But then i thought about it and changed my mind. I changed it because it would give me something else to work on, be able to make cooler structures, while still playing with wolves!

 

[Psychokhaos]

I agree with this very much. As a crafter, I did have some advantages, but if I ran into a mob, I was toast. Also, I have been wanting to be a Caster, but not wanting to give up my crafter abilities. As stated by other people earlier, this benefits both PvP and Non PvP classes, because it opens up your world just a bit more, but where we still have to rely on others.

 

[Razael6]

I think we should have it like in the game guild wars where, you get to classes one is your main ones not, the difference is, you get the armor and all skills for your main class and weapons, the secondary you dont get its armor but you get its weapons but not all the skill, like not that classes best skills. Its hard to explain but its a good system. To know more go to the guild wars wiki. Thanks for reading. -razael

5 minutes and no reply to my post. *shoots self in head* jk

Erm where did my posts go..

 

[Droowid]

Just read this post and I JIZZED IN MY PANTS. But seriously, never been this excited about a suggestion.

I realize this runs the severe risk of being redundant in this thread, but I've felt trapped between druid and mason, choosing betwen being able to mine for exp and being able to help my friends in fights.

 

[MoeJunur]

The real down fall I see is that if everyone is a crafter and a fighter, then there is no reason for lwc, since everyone will have chest shops to place their spoiled received from killing others, the current economy would drop some do to everyone being crafters, and fighters so noone would need to by or sell just split their time to crafting items needed to fight.
Now Craters have to work for the supplies we have, fighters kill us for those, but they have crafting skills to make their weapons, tools, etc. we can not even stand up to a low level caster. I have not looked at the new 1.8 yet so i can only state my opinions on the current state of things.

 

[RedKhan]

Kingtom is ragin'.

MoeJunur, isn't using shop chests as a means to store goods illegal?

It seems like the only reason somebody would really be against everyone being able to do more (One of the few criticism's I've heard regarding this server is that some features that are usable by default, are restricted), is that they have no interest in one of the fields (combat or crafting) and so it doesn't benefit them, but it does benefit others.

Nobody seems to have any defense against my onslaught.

It's pretty messy, I'll go read it now though.

You're definition of hardcore is a bit odd, why would the server be less hardcore if people had more options? Afterall this isn't a buff for one camp (PvP/Crafter) but for both, everyone improves. Unless your arguing that more fun is less hardcore.

Also, you highlight that crafters have a hard time when they encounter combat classes, and that combat classes are frustrated by their inability to use some of the more interesting building abilities (Gate, bridge etc.) Now you try and paint this SOLUTION as a bad thing.

Oh no, that level 45 dragoon who can't find anyone to fight can now spend some time helping build in his town for exp. Heaven forbid, those workers on a large unprotected project can fight against attackers on even terms..

If more people could cope in PvP, they would be more inclined to fight and not hide in their towns.
If people had two classes to master, the grind for levels wouldn't be so boring.
More shops, more competition for business.
Etc.

 

[Kainzo]

This is purely for non-combat and combat specs. This has no bearing for combat + combat as I stated. In order to bring balance and allow for crafters to have viable defenses, this is the way it should go. (In my opinion)

Once you have stated your opinion on the matter, please let others have their chance. I will be merging/deleting posts as I see fit.

Again,
THIS IS NOT A NERF.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT CRAFTERS OR COMBAT SPECS.

This is about the individual HERO and their potential to bring more to the table.

If you just want to PVP - you have no need to level your crafting spec, if you just want to CRAFT/BUILD you have no need to level your combat spec.

They both would still be separate but they could be used in conjunction. Meaning you can stay a level 1 rogue and be a level 50 Smith still.

We havent worked out the code for the level gains but more than likely we will take whatever level specialization is higher.

 

[Aerokii]

This is complete IDIOCY. Now, I am back at home (Yay) and Can make sure you bunch of idiot see the light, because it seems it's National Do Stupid Things while Tom's at School Day. So, last time I checked, Herocraft was HARDCORE. Now, this may have changed, so if it did, please ignore the rest of my post. Most of the people on the internet, only care about themselves. Which means, you all want things easier. Again, I didn't know Herocraft was now a Easycore server. You wanna pvp as a crafter? Tough Luck, You can't get everything. You want to build complex shit as a pvp class? Sucks to be you, your not a crafter. Your a crafter? Tired of getting killed? Then build a Town? Join a Town? Nobody can steal from your shop, so if you see a bunch of raiders coming into your shop, the worst that can happen is.... You sell or buy some things. God Forbid you actually do buisness. Most of you act like Pvp classes can't even place or destroy blocks. You can't do complex shit, deal with it. Crafters, you act like you get killed standing inside your nice home. Don't go OUTSIDE if It's A) Night, or B) A raid Happening. Basically, most of you are being selfish little pricks, saying "I want that too~ It's not fair that HE has it and I don't!" DEAL WITH IT. And please, don't spam this thread with poor excuses defending yourselves from being selfish. If you can't handle constructive with criticism with a little bit of rage, then you should get off the Internet. Thanks.

I'll take this one on a point by point basis. First off, what we're asking for here is not to make herocraft easier, what we're asking for is to broaden the experience of those playing it by not limiting it to "combat" OR "crafting", but instead allowing people to do both of the things they might enjoy about minecraft, rather than being forced into just one role.

It's not all about pvp, either. With the ridiculous power mobs have, crafters DO need a way to defend themselves, lest they dig into a dungeon and be insta-killed. While this does put some emphasis on the party system, it doesn't mean a whole lot when you're dead within seconds of finding it. And as a combat class who spends most of his time building, I really think it would be enjoyable to bring back that part of the game for me, and give me something to do when I don't feel like scouring the roads for random people to kill (note: I don't actually do that.)

This isn't about making herocraft easier. This is about opening the experience up and letting more people enjoy the full spectrum of the game.

 

[Demonxman]

The real down fall I see is that if everyone is a crafter and a fighter, then there is no reason for lwc, since everyone will have chest shops to place their spoiled received from killing others, the current economy would drop some do to everyone being crafters, and fighters so noone would need to by or sell just split their time to crafting items needed to fight.
Now Craters have to work for the supplies we have, fighters kill us for those, but they have crafting skills to make their weapons, tools, etc. we can not even stand up to a low level caster. I have not looked at the new 1.8 yet so i can only state my opinions on the current state of things.

I think (omg, I think??? lols) that what you have stated here is illegal. chests shops are for selling items not storing all your shit in a secure chest.

 

[Droowid]

(Pretend I'm quoting kingtoms huge angry post here)

What if people could enjoy both halves of herocraft though? Its not giving crafters combat, its giving both to both.