HEROES -> SPECIAL SNEAK PEEK!

[wolfgang784]

At the current stand point - Mayor tiers will be separate from the profession/class system.

In theory its awesome - in practice.... not so awesome.

Low and behold our noble and mighty King, Lord over all the eye can see from here to the horizon, he's also the town's Smitthy.

Lol that would be so funny when explaining to new citizens. King walks up in full gold with his king title.....and walks across the street into his workshop.

 

[TheTXLibra]

Brief replies, as I have to pick up the kids soon:

RE: magic carpet and avoiding pvp
Archies don't WANT to PVP. Especially when we're stuck with the most crap weapons and armor you can get, and all we want to do is build. Plus, I've used magic carpet. It's not like a jet plane. You have to turn it on, it's hella tempermental on controls, and doesn't respond well to ups and downs, so it takes a lot of trial and error. Anyone sneaking up on an archie could ninja his ass long before the carpet could even be summoned usually. But let's just assume for the sake of argument that with macros or something, someone figures out how to make themselves temporarily pvp-proof against one opponent. So what? If the archie isn't striking back how is this game-unbalancing? It just means some poor bastard who worked his ass off to get the precious materials necessary to make something pretty for the server to enjoy won't get his ass raped every time and have all his mats stolen every time he takes a step outside.

And that really brings me to the crux of the matter:

Archies will inevitably have the most valuable materials and the least capable way of defending them. Why would anyone ever want to risk their neck to build something pretty out of precious materials when they know at any moment they are the target of every single person hunting rare materials?

I mean... crap, there's literally zero motivation to play one unless you give them a reason to take that risk. I can literally pick any other class that can use iron picks and make due with stone tools. I haven't used a diamond pick once this map, unless I want obby, I probably won't, either. Diamonds are better as building material or as trade for materials I want. But why would I ever voluntarily choose to play a class everyone KNOWS will have a high concentration of good materials compared to normal, when not only is my job not any easier from the abilities, but my combat ability is forever gimped.

It'd be like if DND Wizards had no spells. You know they're squishy already, the only thing that made them worth playing was the magic. You take away that, and all you have is a frail old man with a lot of really valuable magic items on him.

Anyway... something to consider. I'd like to play the class just cause that's all I'm really interested in is building. But if my combat is gimped, my mats are valuable, and I'm a glowing target with no ability to make it worth my while, I'd just assume play something else that can kick ass when needed and still use an iron pick.

---

And looking at Diplomats... what motivation is there to play them in general? Are they combat exempt?

 

[Diavolo1988]

I dont understand why you whine so incredibly much on this architect class. It has the same weapon/fighting capabilities like all the other crafting/mayor classes except king (gold suxx). Also look at the other classes abilities. I think the different classes should atleast be balanced. I agree that the architect needs something cool, it will be a bit similar to the engineer, but for building large cool monumental buildings instead of the engineers' redstone stuff. A flying carpet doesnt really RP well into the role of an architect, that would rather fit better for the genie class (no armor or weapon, just flying carpet for example)

Perhaps the architects could have an ability to easier build cool stuff, but still fits well in the medieval-ish theme minecraft is in. What really is the skill of real architects is being able to get a good overview and plan out buildings well. Perhaps spectator mode would be nice? (character stays on the ground at one spot, but one can move ones "eyes" flying around seeing if the structure is becoming like its supposed to)

Btw, if you want the ability to walk out with your expensive materials and not be afraid of getting ganked, perhaps the paladin is what you wanna be. Diamond armor for protection and iron armor to ward people off. You could also heal yourself so you dont have to bring too much bread.

Oh an other thing, I really think that most people on the server build stuff 95% of the time they play minecraft. Atleast I do. Architects are not the only ones. it just that you agreed to build stuff for DH/the server and not just for your own town/kingdom/yourself like the rest of us.


Oh and please dont be angry with me for going a bit against what you're saying libra. I also think architects should have something cool, but it should fit into the RP role of an architect and also not be GOD MODE.

 

[Kainzo]

This is what the discussions are for - I want to know what you, the players want, now I might not implement it - and also no 'doom / gloom' theories - we havent began working on the professions portion yet - this is just a preview.

 

[Kainzo]

Brief replies, as I have to pick up the kids soon:

RE: magic carpet and avoiding pvp
Archies don't WANT to PVP. Especially when we're stuck with the most crap weapons and armor you can get, and all we want to do is build. Plus, I've used magic carpet. It's not like a jet plane. You have to turn it on, it's hella tempermental on controls, and doesn't respond well to ups and downs, so it takes a lot of trial and error. Anyone sneaking up on an archie could ninja his ass long before the carpet could even be summoned usually. But let's just assume for the sake of argument that with macros or something, someone figures out how to make themselves temporarily pvp-proof against one opponent. So what? If the archie isn't striking back how is this game-unbalancing? It just means some poor bastard who worked his ass off to get the precious materials necessary to make something pretty for the server to enjoy won't get his ass raped every time and have all his mats stolen every time he takes a step outside.

And that really brings me to the crux of the matter:

Archies will inevitably have the most valuable materials and the least capable way of defending them. Why would anyone ever want to risk their neck to build something pretty out of precious materials when they know at any moment they are the target of every single person hunting rare materials?

I mean... crap, there's literally zero motivation to play one unless you give them a reason to take that risk. I can literally pick any other class that can use iron picks and make due with stone tools. I haven't used a diamond pick once this map, unless I want obby, I probably won't, either. Diamonds are better as building material or as trade for materials I want. But why would I ever voluntarily choose to play a class everyone KNOWS will have a high concentration of good materials compared to normal, when not only is my job not any easier from the abilities, but my combat ability is forever gimped.

It'd be like if DND Wizards had no spells. You know they're squishy already, the only thing that made them worth playing was the magic. You take away that, and all you have is a frail old man with a lot of really valuable magic items on him.

Anyway... something to consider. I'd like to play the class just cause that's all I'm really interested in is building. But if my combat is gimped, my mats are valuable, and I'm a glowing target with no ability to make it worth my while, I'd just assume play something else that can kick ass when needed and still use an iron pick.

---

And looking at Diplomats... what motivation is there to play them in general? Are they combat exempt?

---

Also yes - Diplomats would retain the ability to toggle pvp - but would lack luster in anything else.

 

[TheTXLibra]

@ Diavolo - No, in that light, I can understand the RP necessity to keep it more realistic. That's a very valid point. And I certainly don't take issue with anyone, yourself included, arguing against the point. Civil discourse is what sets us apart from the beasts. You could, however, have started your rebuttal with a less hostile phrase than accusing me of whining. If anyone attempting to make a strong argument in favor of a position is "whining" then that leaves little room for discussion, ever.

However, your points do stand well on their own merit, the hostile tone aside. I withdraw my request for no falling damage or flying carpet. Instead, perhaps the best choice would be to give the architects the ability to buy/craft materials out of others (eg. make clay from stuff, make roses from stuff, or buy them for coin). That would be closer to an RP ability without being too g-dlike.

 

[Steamed]

imo monk needs a little more, (or something besides no fall damage) also what weapon will his fists be as good as?

 

[Diavolo1988]

imo monk needs a little more, (or something besides no fall damage) also what weapon will his fists be as good as?

I looked at the weapon chart on the minecraft wiki and fists only do 0.5 hearts where stone swords do 3, iron 4 and diamond 5. That means monks with the 5x fist power will deal less damage than a stone sword. Carrying around a sword isnt that hard, which essentially brings the monk into really just having one perk: no fall damage skill. If the no fall damage was a passive skill, that the monk is always defended against fall damage crappy combat abilities would be worth it. However, now I think the fisto might need a boost, atleast so fists deal the same damage as stone swords. (aka 6x fist damage)

@libra: thx for your understanding, sorry about the whine remarks, that was childish of me. An ability to always being able to get a hold of rare materials would make the architect into some sort of economic class I think. Remember that its not just you who will become one. Having architects able to buy mats for coin would create new markets for these products with prices a couple of coins above the price the architecs payed. Perhaps that is what you want, but then the architect would be one of the most profitable classes unless the materials they could buy were very expensive, in which case the architects ability would be of no use.

I have an other idea for architect. You mentioned you always had problems getting killed when you were carrying lots of valuable stuff. Also when building big monumental structures one needs a lot of materials. So perhaps they could have some sort of ability to have a lot of materials at home in lwc'ed chests that they could access in some sort of way through a command. That way they wouldnt have to walk so much fetching materials and one wouldt have to bring so much expensive stuff out in the open. Dont really know how that would be implemented, Im just throwing out ideas here.

 

[Kainzo]

imo monk needs a little more, (or something besides no fall damage) also what weapon will his fists be as good as?

I looked at the weapon chart on the minecraft wiki and fists only do 0.5 hearts where stone swords do 3, iron 4 and diamond 5. That means monks with the 5x fist power will deal less damage than a stone sword. Carrying around a sword isnt that hard, which essentially brings the monk into really just having one perk: no fall damage skill. If the no fall damage was a passive skill, that the monk is always defended against fall damage crappy combat abilities would be worth it. However, now I think the fisto might need a boost, atleast so fists deal the same damage as stone swords. (aka 6x fist damage)

@libra: thx for your understanding, sorry about the whine remarks, that was childish of me. An ability to always being able to get a hold of rare materials would make the architect into some sort of economic class I think. Remember that its not just you who will become one. Having architects able to buy mats for coin would create new markets for these products with prices a couple of coins above the price the architecs payed. Perhaps that is what you want, but then the architect would be one of the most profitable classes unless the materials they could buy were very expensive, in which case the architects ability would be of no use.

I have an other idea for architect. You mentioned you always had problems getting killed when you were carrying lots of valuable stuff. Also when building big monumental structures one needs a lot of materials. So perhaps they could have some sort of ability to have a lot of materials at home in lwc'ed chests that they could access in some sort of way through a command. That way they wouldnt have to walk so much fetching materials and one wouldt have to bring so much expensive stuff out in the open. Dont really know how that would be implemented, Im just throwing out ideas here.

The damage amount on the fists would be configurable by the server hosting the plugin - Against the values - shouldnt be highlighted too much on (though I do want information such as damage charts posted)

 

[Kainzo]

Updated revision 20

 

[rattmodriguez]

Just read through the thread and this looks like an amazing idea, I really hope this comes in to fruition

 

[iFizzE]

i think ninjas should get a speed boost command for X seconds

 

[lax12]

Builders and such FTW

 

[Kainzo]

i think ninjas should get a speed boost command for X seconds

Impossible in the current code with a client side forced download (so not at the moment)

 

[Droowid]

I love the concept of Masteries. Best idea ever.

As far as being forced to build something to further your class, that doesn't make sense for all of the classes. Warrior subclasses seem like they should just level from killing, right? Mages could be the same, or perhaps based on the size of their, uh.. mage library? Healers could level based on total health healed. Merchants could have their level based on gold amassed. That leaves crafters, rogues and diplomats.. crafters could have their projects voted on, sort of an, "Is this building worth exp?" system... rogues and diplos, I have no idea. Also, if you go with this concept at all you should decide if the "exp alternative" replaced exp, or just caps your level (Merchant can't level above level x without x*n gold).

Libra: Just because you're a good architect and don't want to waste time PVPing doesn't mean people would choose architect just to exploit the flight capability. I recommend giving Architects the ability to spawn an infinite ladder. Would help with a good bit of building projects. Also perhaps find a way for them to be able to get glass back when they break it maybe? Just throwing things out there.


Random skill ideas:
Samurai and Ninja: They both used bows quite a bit. Just sayin'. On the other hand it's clear you're keeping bow reserved for people that have no other benefit so maybe not.

Mage: give mages, or maybe just wizards, ability to TP to a party member also.
Crafter: No base class skill listed, unlike the others. Also, it feels like there should be a miner class, or is its exclusion intentional? I can see how 2x ore gain would be a little more useful than 2x wheat gain...

Anyway, those are my thoughts.. but the main thing I am thinking, is THIS IS GOING TO BE EVEN MORE OF THE BEST SERVER EVER! The other servers I've seen with RPG mods don't come anywhere near this. I love you Kainzo.

 

[DanVonTrap]

This looks so awesome i cant wait to try this out. One thing thou i reckon crafter and diplomat should be secondary class and the others are a primary

 

[jorict]

Since healers can't use swords, I think they should be able to use diamond/iron axes, stone is weak.

 

[Kainzo]

Just to update you guys - these are outdated - a new doc will be posted soon.

 

[jorict]

Yes!

 

[Kainzo]

Most up to date.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?hl=en&hl=en&key=0ApuC4DXz9lwndDhzTndfeGRaR2RvLXRKR3BUcFNVdGc&output=html