-Herocraft Community- Currency Poll

[MajorasMask]

You're still on the easier thing. It's not easier and we've established that. It's a world-consistency thing and a player experience thing. How is it not easier? It is clear to me that storing coin on your account is faster, effective, simpler and thus, easier, than storing money in your inventory. As for ''World-Consistency.. player experience...'', what do you mean? Do you see people walking from the edge of Dragongarde to spawn? Do you see people walking from their towns to spawn? No, they get a bus group teleport.


I would also advocate the removal of free-to-set Recalls. Have them only available to set in townships or other protected areas. That's an insane suggestion. That'll just limit players too much. What if they wanted to be independant without a region? What if they wanted a recall for a good mining spot in the wild? Forcing players to set a recall in a specific space has never been done. What reasons, other than the one suggested above (making people walk to spawn), would there be to add this? Also, some people have noble plots in spawn that they might want to keep.


You seem to be a tad bit xenophobic in this paragraph. Lots of coulds and mights and maybes. We wouldn't know for sure how such a system would work until it's implemented somewhere. There is a reason people ''test'' things. Considering this is a start of a map, not half way within it, I say it is damn right dodgy to try something that hasn't been tested (especially this, which would change the way the whole economy would work). This could easily impact town creation, specialisation, the buying/selling of noble plots, ect. Why would this be the case? Consider what Malmenca said above, the whole system is too confusing for players to just ''understand''. Don't we all want the map to run smoothly?


Who knows? Who knows? Not you, apparently. And not me either. Give gold a chance. Transition from our current thing to this thing is 100% at the coders discretion. Feel free to support or not support the idea, but I'm presenting it to the staff, not actively factoring them into the reasons not to do it. Read above. I think it is better to go into a new map without uncertainty.

And actually if nuggets were equivalent to 1c, ingots 9c, and blocks 81c we wouldn't need to do that mess at all, and smart people would ground their prices in base 9. I'm not following you on this one, please explain.

 

[MrRobotman]

Don't change the currency. Sure, emeralds are the new official MC currency. So what?If something has worked before don't change it.

 

[Dazureus]

How is it not easier? It is clear to me that storing coin on your account is faster, effective, simpler and thus, easier, than storing money in your inventory. As for ''World-Consistency.. player experience...'', what do you mean? Do you see people walking from the edge of Dragongarde to spawn? Do you see people walking from their towns to spawn? No, they get a bus group teleport.

You're STILL on the easier thing. My proposed system is NOT easier or more convenient. As has been stated multiple times by me. That's not what it's about and you're still thinking too narrowly.
What it would do is make the world a bit more consistent. What wizard or ninja bills their groceries to their account? That consistency would promote more in-character behavior and atmosphere in the economic aspect of the game, and we've already got a leg up on that through the face-to-face trading plugin.

That's an insane suggestion. That'll just limit players too much. What if they wanted to be independant without a region? What if they wanted a recall for a good mining spot in the wild? Forcing players to set a recall in a specific space has never been done. What reasons, other than the one suggested above (making people walk to spawn), would there be to add this? Also, some people have noble plots in spawn that they might want to keep.

In order: You dismissed my opinion as ridiculous which I don't appreciate. If they want to be independent let them be so. If they want to return to a spot they could do that without Recall. It's never been done so it's bad, I understand. It would serve the purpose of creating more foot traffic and PvP, promote active utilization of town membership and personal regions, and between /warp, Ports and Gteles I honestly think we don't need willy-nilly Recalls. People make towns all over the place anyhow. If a town leader could grant Mark permission to players there's another source of interaction and income.

There is a reason people ''test'' things. Considering this is a start of a map, not half way within it, I say it is damn right dodgy to try something that hasn't been tested (especially this, which would change the way the whole economy would work). This could easily impact town creation, specialisation, the buying/selling of noble plots, ect. Why would this be the case? Consider what Malmenca said above, the whole system is too confusing for players to just ''understand''. Don't we all want the map to run smoothly?

More xenophobia. All that really has to be tested is plugin functionality. Gameplay-wise, it would be what we make of it. Plus, I didn't check malmenca's suggestions too closely, so I can't vouch for them quite yet.

Read above. I think it is better to go into a new map without uncertainty.

I'm not following you on this one, please explain.

I was referring to that thing Malmenca said about removing crafting recipes. And actually I might add a crafting recipe in this case, so that ingots could be broken down into nuggets. If you didn't follow the base 9 part, it's only math.

 

[malmenca]

Having to carry gold rather than coins is the definition of hardcore. It adds a difficulty to it, sure u can circumvent that with recall and teleports, but it's stil possible to lose your money, and that is HARDCORE.

Additionally, a new map is the optimal time to try a new system. Would u rather have all your money midway thru dragonguarde be turned to gold and then to test it? Or would u rather start with a new system and then revert to the old one if it did not work.

Does anyone else want to weigh in besides Majoras? Not to say what he has argued isn't valid/correct/whatever, but I would be interested to see what ANYONE aside from majoras/dazareus/myself has to say on the subject. Feel free not to reply or comment on what we've said but add your opinions/thoughts/etc....

 

[Dazureus]

Don't change the currency. Sure, emeralds are the new official MC currency. So what?If something has worked before don't change it.

I would facepalm Maj's winner rating if I could.

 

[Haxnn]

I don't like the idea of needing to carry gold. Having a personal bank/money storage has worked well in every map. I don't see the need to change it. Carrying gold really just makes things a pain. There is a good chance you'll lose all of it and people won't want to carry it around with them in fear of loseing it. What we have now works and works well. I see no need to change it. I know people think carry the gold is hardcore, but I don't really think it is. Just because other games do it dosn't mean we have to. Carrying gold really is just pointless, you can lose everything else like levels, gear and stuff, but money has always been something that is safe. You use money when you get new gear, you use money when you have to buy redstone or items at a graveyard. You use money to buy plots, towns and other goods. Changeing money to gold would take that away.

Anyways, just what I think. Keep it how it is.

 

[PewPewPewLasers]

Having to carry gold rather than coins is the definition of hardcore. It adds a difficulty to it, sure u can circumvent that with recall and teleports, but it's stil possible to lose your money, and that is HARDCORE.

Additionally, a new map is the optimal time to try a new system. Would u rather have all your money midway thru dragonguarde be turned to gold and then to test it? Or would u rather start with a new system and then revert to the old one if it did not work.

Does anyone else want to weigh in besides Majoras? Not to say what he has argued isn't valid/correct/whatever, but I would be interested to see what ANYONE aside from majoras/dazareus/myself has to say on the subject. Feel free not to reply or comment on what we've said but add your opinions/thoughts/etc....

no, just no.

 

[MajorasMask]

You're STILL on the easier thing. My proposed system is NOT easier or more convenient.As has been stated multiple times by me. That's not what it's about and you're still thinking too narrowly. If something, new, both slowing the player down and makes things inconvenient, then, why the hell introduce it? It doesn't come with any good and long-term benefits.


What it would do is make the world a bit more consistent. What wizard or ninja bills their groceries to their account? That consistency would promote more in-character behavior and atmosphere in the economic aspect of the game, and we've already got a leg up on that through the face-to-face trading plugin. As for promoting ''in-character and atmosphere'', ermm, why? Sure it sounds great (though I don't get how it will help), eventually it'll become pointless and boring, not worth the time. Also, do people even USE the trading thing Kainzo added? People use chestshops because they are always there, 24/7, and the owner does not need to be there. Buy/sell things because coin is always in their pocket. So back to a previous point, introducing something whereas the owner HAS to be there (with money in their inventory and not their account), and the player HAS to have money in their pocket, yes, it WOULD ruin the economy (if you didn't realise, the richest players on HC use chestshops (or are mayors/kingdom owners/ect)), and you don't see players walking around the TD with no money either.


In order: You dismissed my opinion as ridiculous which I don't appreciate. Yes, yes I did. You act like my ideas and suggestions are pointless, i'm not too bothered though.


If they want to be independent let them be so. If they want to return to a spot they could do that without Recall. Having a secret base at the edge of the map, walking all the way there, everyday.... errrm, no thanks.


It's never been done so it's bad, I understand. It would serve the purpose of creating more foot traffic and PvP, promote active utilization of town membership and personal regions, and between /warp, Ports and Gteles I honestly think we don't need willy-nilly Recalls. Again, a big suggestion to get rid of things which allow players to travel, something that's been around for goodness knows how long. As for PvP, ect, isn't that ment to be fixed anyway because towns, next map, are ment to have bigger communities? Whereas, you know, war and alliences becoming more common due to higher township populations? As for walking around the map influencing PvP, that already happens. Take the graveyard near Solitude for instance, TONS of people are there daily (or were)! This is what you call a ''PvP Hotspot''. They're more fun than killing random people walking around, trust me!


People make towns all over the place anyhow. If a town leader could grant Mark permission to players there's another source of interaction and income. Players join towns for enhanced protection, not to empty their pockets. You could say the same for plots in towns, but I know of very few mayors that charge their citizens to stay in their town. As Danda said, most towns arn't worth that.


By the way, as for the whole ''recall'' topic, remember this is about coin. Let's not go too off-topic (it'll prevent these long ass replies).


More xenophobia. All that really has to be tested is plugin functionality. Gameplay-wise, it would be what we make of it. Plus, I didn't check malmenca's suggestions too closely, so I can't vouch for them quite yet.

The importance of this map is to get communities running again, to allow stronger relationships and such. Changing the whole economic system to something that is longer, more confusing, ect, would damage this. It's dodgy, i've said it before: towns might not be created, PvPers might not be able to spec, ect. This'll slow everyone down. The start of a map is vital. People complain about how the start of this map wasn't planned out due to the many towns that were created, alongside other things. If you go into a map, without planning and testing, then sure, there's a great chance it'll go wrong. We've all seen what happens when a map ''goes wrong'', and i'm sure we don't want to see it again.


I was referring to that thing Malmenca said about removing crafting recipes. And actually I might add a crafting recipe in this case, so that ingots could be broken down into nuggets. If you didn't follow the base 9 part, it's only math. I'm still not following you on this bit. Try and explain it from the top.

ALSO:

When I say ''long-term'' at the start, sure, your ideas that people will work together, defend eachother, so on and so forth, might work for a short while, it won't last forever. People will just want to get group teleported, to recall, or to use safer methods of transportation. People did it at the start of Zeal (they had no regions to defend themselves), but I don't recall seeing people doing it at the end of Zeal. Heck, I went around the map with plenty of loot, and not a care in the world.

 

[MajorasMask]

Having to carry gold rather than coins is the definition of hardcore. It adds a difficulty to it, sure u can circumvent that with recall and teleports, but it's stil possible to lose your money, and that is HARDCORE. There is nothing ''hardcore'' in slowing people down, making things inconvinient. I've played many hard games before, with currency. And no, they don't make you carry it.

Additionally, a new map is the optimal time to try a new system. Would u rather have all your money midway thru dragonguarde be turned to gold and then to test it? Or would u rather start with a new system and then revert to the old one if it did not work. It is vital to get a new map ''right''. If you don't, then it can all go wrong. Read what I said as a reply to Dazureus' comment. What happened as a result of unplanned and untested update, this map, was the incredible decrease in server-player activity.

 

[Sniped105]

I like the idea of having to carry gold, I think it would be pretty cool to have to be more careful and sneaky when going somewhere with it. Although, not everyone feels the same. I think the system we have now works well and should stay like it is just because of the danger factor. Yes it is a hardcore server, but not everyone wants to run to spawn from their town with a couple stacks of gold in their inventories. I fine I am not sure which would be better, same way I felt about having emeralds be currency instead of gold. Both options are great, and I believe it would have to be thought about by the staff and the player base a bit more

 

[Sniped105]

ALSO:

When I say ''long-term'' at the start, sure, your ideas that people will work together, defend eachother, so on and so forth, might work for a short while, it won't last forever. People will just want to get group teleported, to recall, or to use safer methods of transportation. People did it at the start of Zeal (they had no regions to defend themselves), but I don't recall seeing people doing it at the end of Zeal. Heck, I went around the map with plenty of loot, and not a care in the world.

Making players carry gold would remove the freedom of roaming the map like that. For as long as I have played herocraft (which is only maybe 7 months, from the start of this map) the roads and land became increasingly less dangerous. If players were forced to carry their gold with them, it may or may not bring in more Pvp and a much larger danger aspect of walking around by yourself. Sure they could recall or get a tp to spawn, but there arent always wizards on that want to teleport people, and a lot of people have recalls to towns instead of spawn. Just my oppinion

 

[malmenca]

Majoras, why do u want to take the easy way out?

Spoiler

The process is simple and gold has multiple uses (coin for plots, towns, changing classes/specs, ect).

This system works a lot easier,

It is easier to use than introducing a whole new economic system (player base wise, some may not understand).

It is easier to use than introducing a whole new economic system (coding wise, it may take time to sort out).

The process of getting and selling gold is much easier than getting and selling emeralds

Yeah, I think getting gold is easier.

It is much easier to use gold,

Getting emeralds is a long process, more like a chore. Getting gold is a lot easier,

that means there is just more for the coders/staff to do in order to change the game. not doing this is easier

I think it is a lot easier for the player just to use the current commands.

I'm not looking at it in the sense of difficulty, but more in the sense that i'll make things more convinient.

I'll reply to each again:
It makes it so much easier.

Your ENTIRE argument is based on the fact that your solutions are easier/convenient/ least work possible. Aside from this being un-hardcore, you have not presented any legitimate validation of your claims.
You've validated your argument in several ways
1. You've assumed that it is true because it has not been proven false (Logical fallcy)
2. You've also stated that because gold works and is good, the system as a whole is good, (Fallacy of composition) It isn't a valid argument.
3. You also claim that some of the suggestions both Dazereus and I have proposed are sub-par or downright bad. With what proof do u have? Mere speculation is all you have to argue with. (As do we, but I do not claim my ideas are better, but rather say they provide advantages and alternatives.

 

[MajorasMask]

I like the idea of having to carry gold, I think it would be pretty cool to have to be more careful and sneaky when going somewhere with it. Although, not everyone feels the same. I think the system we have now works well and should stay like it is just because of the danger factor. Yes it is a hardcore server, but not everyone wants to run to spawn from their town with a couple stacks of gold in their inventories. I fine I am not sure which would be better, same way I felt about having emeralds be currency instead of gold. Both options are great, and I believe it would have to be thought about by the staff and the player base a bit more

Gold, as we all know, works well in practice. While it would be cool to run around all sneaky with gold, we already do something similar to it! Does anyone these days wear armour, carry enchanted tools and minerals from Warshard?

Carrying gold will become a pain. If anything it could promote isolation (players not wanting their gold stolen so they hide themselves).

 

[malmenca]

Okay fine, no one wants to carry their gold? Have coin loss on player death. (killed by another player, not a mob)

 

[Sniped105]

Gold, as we all know, works well in practice. While it would be cool to run around all sneaky with gold, we already do something similar to it! Does anyone these days wear armour, carry enchanted tools and minerals from Warshard?

Carrying gold will become a pain. If anything it could promote isolation (players not wanting their gold stolen so they hide themselves).

Warshard has become much less dangerous after the first few weeks of its release, I think personally it should have been reset much more consistently than every 99 days. And that is true, some players might not want to move their gold at all, but they would eventually find a cause to I'm sure. It's a hit/miss kinda thing I guess

 

[Sniped105]

Okay fine, no one wants to carry their gold? Have coin loss on player death. (killed by another player, not a mob)

That would actually be pretty cool. Would force people to want to gear up if the loss was great enough, and would stop some classes that don't need regeants or armor to fight from constantly suiciding to try for kills

 

[Psychokhaos]

@MajorasMask @Dazureus @malmenca (Main people I saw in this)

I skimmed through all of this stuff, but I suggest going to Daz's old topic in Suggestions for this in stead of taking this off-topic from Gold or Emeralds.
http://herocraftonline.com/main/threads/gold-as-currency.20428/
It's old, but may as well use it.

 

[MajorasMask]

Majoras, why do u want to take the easy way out?

Your ENTIRE argument is based on the fact that your solutions are easier/convenient/ least work possible. Aside from this being un-hardcore, you have not presented any legitimate validation of your claims.
You've validated your argument in several ways
1. You've assumed that it is true because it has not been proven false (Logical fallcy)
2. You've also stated that because gold works and is good, the system as a whole is good, (Fallacy of composition) It isn't a valid argument.
3. You also claim that some of the suggestions both Dazereus and I have proposed are sub-par or downright bad. With what proof do u have? Mere speculation is all you have to argue with. (As do we, but I do not claim my ideas are better, but rather say they provide advantages and alternatives.

Is the way the current economy work not enough proof? There are no errors or concerns at the moment. Do the players complain? Nope. Can it be abused? Nope. Is it in balance? Yup. Most likely, this is what the players want. As for the ''proof'' arguement, how exactly am I ment to ''prove'' anything? I've said why the current system works, i've described why the current process is faster, more efficient, more convinent, which would all make your suggestions, thus, invalid and incorrect (in my eyes).

Also, should I pull the ''proof'' strings on you and ask ''How do you know a gold-carrying economy would work'', i'm sure you'll find you have no evidence that it will. You'll theorise what MIGHT happen, but not being sure what WILL happen. This uncertainty is not a desire, to me, for a start of a map. Yet you say ''that's boring, live a little'', yeahhh... nice ''proof''.

 

[MajorasMask]

Okay fine, no one wants to carry their gold? Have coin loss on player death. (killed by another player, not a mob)

YES! THAT is a decent suggestion! Maybe 1% of their coin goes to the player that kills them? See, that'll make things more hardcore, promoting bodyguards and secret rails to spawn, and still uses coin, not gold in their inventory.

 

[MajorasMask]

YES! THAT is a decent suggestion! Maybe 1% of their coin goes to the player that kills them? See, that'll make things more hardcore, promoting bodyguards and secret rails to spawn, and still uses coin, not gold in their inventory.

The main idea is that it doesn't go far from what we already have. I like it @malmenca. I can understand your point of view that carrying gold would make things more hardcore, but due to the inconvinience I don't really like it. This, however, keeps coin in your account, but still leaves the danger of running around.