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Hardcoreness - Please Read

Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Likes
206
Location
Portland, Oregon
#1
Ok so a lot of people like to throw around how 'hardcore' certain things are, or how implementing a change isn't 'hardcore' enough or other people say that adding something is 'too hardcore.' But we have a problem. No one actually knows what it means, or they have their own idea of what 'hardcore' is. Someone might say 'this isn't hardcore' and another might say 'of course it is' and yet another might exclaim "You're both dumb this has nothing to do with how hardcore the server is"

Why am I posting this? Very Simple: STOP. Due to 'hardcore' having absolutely no universal meaning it is no longer an okay statement when suggesting or raising concerns about a feature or feature suggestion (regardless of who is posting it). If you find yourself wanting to say something isn't hardcore enough or it makes it a server that isn't 'hardcore', instead of saying this explain what you actually mean by explaining what you don't like about the suggestion.

On that topic we will still actively advertise as 'hardcore' because it's a catchy term. I just don't want it to show up in anymore suggestions/discussions on here.

Thanks.
 

Kainzo

The Disposable Hero
Staff member
Founder
Adventure Team
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Likes
7,541
Location
The 7th Circle of Heaven
#2
Hardcore is a mindset. The term for hardcore was coined a while ago to mean "Harder than vanilla". It's a frame of mind and a goal for the community to meet. Hardcore and Legit go hand in hand in a lot of cases. Hardcore means that it is challenging and thought-provoking.

In Herocraft, hardcore means proper risk vs reward. There are no free items / hand outs. There is danger presented in the world (more so than usual). The world is harsh and you'll need friends or skill to get by alive.

For suggestions, we will almost always favor the more challenging alternative. We promote challenging gameplay, be it PVE/PVP/Economy. As Sleaker mentioned, it's best to explain yourself in depth, rather than spout out that it doesnt match the server's objectives or taglines.
 
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Likes
206
#3
The converse is true as well. 'Hardcore' isn't a justification or explanation of features.

So when someone asks 'why aren't LWCs free like other servers?' do a little better than 'this is a hardcore server'. Saying that makes you look like an ass and reflects poorly on the server.
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Likes
94
Location
Blue Mountains Australia
#4
I agree with Kalkyte there too - But in answer to that I'd say they are not free to stop every chest being locked and actually allow some kind of raiding to occur

You know a feature I'd love to see is perhaps like a lockpicking thing for lwc's say a really complex puzzle with a low chance of opening the chest - failing = small amount of damage done to the player - Don't know if this is possible with heroes but it would be fun!

The converse is true as well. 'Hardcore' isn't a justification or explanation of features.

So when someone asks 'why aren't LWCs free like other servers?' do a little better than 'this is a hardcore server'. Saying that makes you look like an ass and reflects poorly on the server.
 
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Likes
147
#5
PvE Hardcore - Mobs are challenging, engaging, and generally unlike how most minecraft mobs act

PvP Hardcore - Items dropped on death, fights have a risk vs reward that goes past the fight itself, cheap tactics are not encouraged, but can be utilized to gain the upper hand [IE, settin' a hole in the ground before the fight or trapping someone in a regioned area]

Economic Hardcore - You can be out competed and there is no mercy if you fail to keep up-to-date on prices or fail to arranged a proper trading area. Honestly, I think this is the part that the server is most lacking.

Just in my opinion.
 
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Likes
66
Location
Kentucky, USA
#8
The world is a better place now thanks to this post Sleaker. And Kainzo.

There has been a lot of misunderstanding about what this server is all about. I've seen many players come on, expecting it to be PVP all the time, where you must fight no matter what and death is inevitable every 5 minutes. Their understanding of the server is that we should all be fighting all the time, and there is really no point in doing anything other than fighting and killing other players.

My understanding of 'hardcore' as it relates to this server, is that there are no handouts - no free items, no free teleports from admins, no 'flying' abilities for donors, etc. The server is hardcore in that we are playing the RPG aspect of the skill system very intentionally and very seriously. We are all enveloped in the world of Herocraft and take it very seriously. As such, we have towns, we have factions, we have 'good' players and 'bad' players, 'good' towns and 'evil' towns. We have fighting - yes, and lots of PVP. But we also have architects, massive structures, regulations, an economy, and alliances with other players.

What we have is a true RPG server with a variety of roles each of us fulfills. Some players are fighters, some players are builders, and some players are 'talkers,' who just walk around and enjoy the scenery and enjoy communicating with other players and making friends (and enemies, of course). The point is, each player gets to decide for his or herself how they want to play the game and what their 'role' will be. As long as we all play by the rules, we can do whatever we want, whether that is fighting all the time, building all the time, a mixture of both, or one of about 50 million other things we can do in the game to have fun.

And that's really the point of all of this - to have fun. Obviously we can't make sure EVERYONE is having fun, but we (when I say we, I mean the admins, the mods, the players, everyone) still want to do everything we can to have fun ourselves, without interfering too much in other players' enjoyment. When "hardcore" is exaggerated to the point that we are starting to make other people not enjoy the game any longer, I think it's a gross misinterpretation of what the word means, and what this server is all about.

I'm really glad Sleaker brought this up, as it's something that has been brought up all over the forums.

Thanks for reading!
 

Kainzo

The Disposable Hero
Staff member
Founder
Adventure Team
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Likes
7,541
Location
The 7th Circle of Heaven
#13
Hardcore is dedication. We're dedicated to this server, we're in for the long haul. We're passionate about RPG and Minecraft. We're the "hardcore"
 
Joined
Nov 17, 2011
Likes
338
Location
In your mothers pants
#16
The world is a better place now thanks to this post Sleaker. And Kainzo.

There has been a lot of misunderstanding about what this server is all about. I've seen many players come on, expecting it to be PVP all the time, where you must fight no matter what and death is inevitable every 5 minutes. Their understanding of the server is that we should all be fighting all the time, and there is really no point in doing anything other than fighting and killing other players.

My understanding of 'hardcore' as it relates to this server, is that there are no handouts - no free items, no free teleports from admins, no 'flying' abilities for donors, etc. The server is hardcore in that we are playing the RPG aspect of the skill system very intentionally and very seriously. We are all enveloped in the world of Herocraft and take it very seriously. As such, we have towns, we have factions, we have 'good' players and 'bad' players, 'good' towns and 'evil' towns. We have fighting - yes, and lots of PVP. But we also have architects, massive structures, regulations, an economy, and alliances with other players.

What we have is a true RPG server with a variety of roles each of us fulfills. Some players are fighters, some players are builders, and some players are 'talkers,' who just walk around and enjoy the scenery and enjoy communicating with other players and making friends (and enemies, of course). The point is, each player gets to decide for his or herself how they want to play the game and what their 'role' will be. As long as we all play by the rules, we can do whatever we want, whether that is fighting all the time, building all the time, a mixture of both, or one of about 50 million other things we can do in the game to have fun.

And that's really the point of all of this - to have fun. Obviously we can't make sure EVERYONE is having fun, but we (when I say we, I mean the admins, the mods, the players, everyone) still want to do everything we can to have fun ourselves, without interfering too much in other players' enjoyment. When "hardcore" is exaggerated to the point that we are starting to make other people not enjoy the game any longer, I think it's a gross misinterpretation of what the word means, and what this server is all about.

I'm really glad Sleaker brought this up, as it's something that has been brought up all over the forums.

Thanks for reading!
Yes. That is all
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Likes
3
#17
This thread isn't hardcore enough. *shot*

I'm sorry. I just couldn't help it. I really couldn't.

In actuality, kudos to Sleaker, Kainzo, and sadikyo for their posts of relevant coolness.
 
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Likes
90
Location
Afghanistan FOB Sharana
#18
I really dont care about the fighting at all i find myself always digging farming or building BUT i am amused while doing all this seeing my Towns chat when my guys are running around fighting or raiding and leaving funny comments about it on channel for example last time "hey theres one quick go into sneak " ..... "i think he sees us digg deeper and go into sneak so he cant see heads" ....... DIED "fuck huge ass hole i fell in when dug down to hide just lost all my shit " and yea thats what i saw and i laughed my ass off so either way hardcore or not there still fun to be had regardless of what your doing so many things on this server can be done that i find myself always amused and engrossed in something new to do other than fighting.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Likes
3
#19
^ I will spoiler tag a response to this because it is sorta' off-topic, though slightly relevant.

Laughing at n00bs is always fun! If you think that that was funny, get a load of this:
Some kids were naking a ton of noise about how huge this save was that they found. I rolled my eyes because my house was built over one of the three largest caverns in the server. Keep in mind the fact that we had a plugin installed that allows the world to generate extra-huge caverns.
Another mod and I told the kids that what they had found was just an ordinary cave; there were much, much bigger ones on the rest of the server. Really, their cave wasn't bad, but it was still within the boundaries of a normal one. I was more impressed with the high iron content than the size of it.
These dumbasses insisted that there cave was plugin-generated. "A mod on MY server would be insta-banned for such stupidity as yours!" is what their leader said, but in proper English. Try not to piss yourself at that, just yet. Anyway, I tried to tell them otherwise and also that we didn't give a flaming rat's ass how poorly he administrated his server. Take a guess as to what they did.
They tried to kill me. I kid you not. I had a prefix that established me as a mod. They saw me FLYING around in creative mode (We generally aren't fans of creative mode in SMP, but there were some bugs in switching from LogBlock to HawkEye, so the mods were given creative mode to help people out because there were some major griefs when no one was on.) and saw me insta-breaking blocks... in creative mode... right in front of their faces. They still tried to trap me in some wooden/stone block prisons. How stupid is that? I didn't even need to be in creative mode; I just walked/jumped out as they were trying to build around me. Then, I waited a bit so that I couldn't just jump out, then used my magic carpet just to say, "Yes, I still have the magic carpet of glass to help me fly... and I have creative mode... xD" They kept trying! I waited for them to totally bury me, then broke out easily just to rub it in their faces that I wasn't suffocating and was able to get out whenever I wanted. I also waited to be buried and teleported out to again prove my point.
I shit you not: They kept trying to kill me. I flew up and watched them for a bit, and they built towers to come up to me and try to slash me down. Naturally, I took their hits with rolled eyes, knocked them down, and laughed. When they came back up, I even turned my magic carpet back on to give them a platform to work with. They still didn't get it. I got up high and let them come up to me. Most of them were off looking for diamonds to fight me with and lava to dump on me, but one was still swinging his iron sword. I would let him up, then just fly a little away from him so that he no longer had glass to stand on, so he'd fall, break some bones, and... come right back up.
Right as they were getting to be really offensive and needed to be banned for trolling, rudeness, and disrespect, the one guy was still at it, and he actually suffered enough fall damage as to die. I was at about 1/3rd of the fatal height, but he had managed to fall about five times in a row, overpowering his recovery rate. When he died, I just about died laughing.
Just before the banning started, the same guy started trying to get back up to me, but his friends told him to get down there and help them hump rocks. I will never forget those trolls; they will be mocked forever.

With hilarious story time over, I just want to concur that people can have fun however the heck they want, as long as it's not infringing on others.
 
Joined
Apr 25, 2011
Likes
171
#20
Probably wasn't a good idea to perpetuate an idea of Herocraft being super "hardcore" without actually defining the word. Many a times I've been told Herocraft is hardcore sucks to be you, yet many aspects are far from hardcore. We shouldn't be giving out false signals. Go full-hardcore or no-hardcore, you cant go half, you go full or none.
 
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