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Suggestion Fix Dreadknights

HoldMyPie

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Location
Australia
So we all know that 'Dreadknight OP'. Well - not really, not anymore. Dreadknights are one of the strongest classes I believe on the server due to their high health and decent damage. Before the last revamp, dreadknight had bash, soulleech, harmtouch, empathy and decay - 4 skills that did damage. Now they really only have two - epathy and decay. Harrow is essentially useless.

Before I go any further, I would like to say that I think that to be a dreadknight, you have to have some amount of skill, and to be a good one, you need to have quite a bit of skill. I have been a dreadknight for near 6 months on/off and I must say, I think I have it down - the only thing stopping me is my aussie lag, which is horrible to say the least.
Another thing, I think that shadowstep/harrow is one of the coolest combos on the server as skills, but I believe in functionality over looks.

The problem with harrow/shadowstep is that they don't work. Shadowstepping someone is incredibly difficult to do even with an insane amount of skill as it's so bad locking onto the target. The only way you can get shadowstep off is to be in a straight line to your target and if they are running away - you have to be at least 5 blocks away to actually shadowstep them which puts you only a few blocks more than what you were. Shadowstep is essentially useless in real-world pvp unless you are getting someone in a really enclosed space.

The problem with harrow is simple - it's buggy as shit. Sorry to be so blunt, but it's so incredibly bad that it sucks. The harrow skill is esentially to be used with shadowstep - as you have to be behind a PLAYER to use it. The problem with this is that there is a 1 second in between skills, which makes it impossible to use after shadowstepping behind someone. IMPOSSIBLE. By the time you can use harrow, they have already turned around and started fighting you head on-again.
The ONLY time I ever use harrow is when I sneak up on someone from behind - and even then it usually doesn't set off for some stupid reason unknown - it just won't work. BUT BEFORE YOU GO ON ABOUT THAT - let me say that I know you guys if anything are going to just fix the glitchyness of it - the part where it doesn't go off 1/2 the time, but the main problem is that you can't get behind people in pvp - it's just not whats going down. ROGUES in WoW have those backstab skills because they are sneaky - when you run into a dreadknight, you are supposed to fear him/her or at least know what you're up against.
-----------------------------------------------------

TLDR:

-> Shadowstep is impossible to land and the range is far too short.
-> Harrow is impossible to use with shadowstep as the anti-spell-spam blocks it from being used with shadowstep.
->Harrow is buggy and does not actually work 1/2 the time.
--------------------------------------------------------

POSSIBLE FIXES:

#1
SKILL: Shadowgrab | Pulls all players near dreadknight towards the dreadknight slowly (similar to fishing line) for 3 seconds.
SKILL: Harrow | Used with shadowgrab - Use to end SHADOWGRAB early and inflict the targets with 150damage, scaled between them.(eg 1 target=150dmg, 3 targets=50dmg ea)

#2
Shadowstep works - but stuns the target for 3 seconds. + Increase range of shadowstep and allow it to be cast against people running away.
Fix harrow so that it works 100% of the time.

#3.
Remove harrow and instead put in a new ablity, and fix shadowstep.
SKILL: SummonDeath | Summons 2 skeletons to fight your enemies. Skeles would be names '[player]'s Minions' or something. Can only attack other people.


Or you could just really fix harrow and shadowstep. Delfofthebla Kainzo[DOUBLEPOST=1373966058,1373959572][/DOUBLEPOST]On further investigation shadowstep only works when the player is facing you.[DOUBLEPOST=1373968498][/DOUBLEPOST]*Minor changes/fixes.
 

Halizu

ICE ICE ICE!
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
It was hard to pull Harrow off even when the global cooldown was lower never mind now, as it didn't work most of the time, even when behind the target.
It doesn't look like the GC is going to be reduced anytime soon though.
 

HoldMyPie

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Location
Australia
I think this is really supposed to be in the Bug Reporting section of the forums - not sure though since I'm suggesting new skills >.<

Anywho - harrow is just a pain to have and shadowstep isn't even good at the moment.
 

Zaihn

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
At the moment dreadknight is extremely strong, any buff added to the class would put it in an overpowered tier. I also never have an issue with shadowstep. I hardly ever use the shadowstep + harrow combo in unison but both skills are extremely useful on their own. If you added a 3 second stun to shadowstep... wow.. Dreadknight would be able to literally kill anything.

With 3 second stun

Left Click (57), Decay (65), Left Click (57), Empathy (192), Left Click (57), Harrow (120), Left Click (57) = ~450-500 damage depending on armor. Harrow could also be changed in the rotation depending on HP level to get maximum empathy. After this the dk could just terror and kite until shadowstep is back on or continue ham'ing the opponent.

Having said that, it would be beneficial to the class if harrow was more "reliable" with maybe a longer cooldown or if you were able to shadow step and then harrow by evading the GCD.
 

HoldMyPie

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Location
Australia
At the moment dreadknight is extremely strong, any buff added to the class would put it in an overpowered tier. I also never have an issue with shadowstep. I hardly ever use the shadowstep + harrow combo in unison but both skills are extremely useful on their own. If you added a 3 second stun to shadowstep... wow.. Dreadknight would be able to literally kill anything.

With 3 second stun

Left Click (57), Decay (65), Left Click (57), Empathy (192), Left Click (57), Harrow (120), Left Click (57) = ~450-500 damage depending on armor. Harrow could also be changed in the rotation depending on HP level to get maximum empathy. After this the dk could just terror and kite until shadowstep is back on or continue ham'ing the opponent.

Having said that, it would be beneficial to the class if harrow was more "reliable" with maybe a longer cooldown or if you were able to shadow step and then harrow by evading the GCD.
You know, I see alot of shit towards dreadknights - but I really do not think they are 'extremely strong' or OP. Empathy depends on how low health the dreadknight gets - so to use it, essentially you have to be below 6/7 hearts to make it effective - and when you use it in a fight, you'll only use it once due to the cooldown and the quickness of PVP in general. Harrow is incredibly hard to get off - I've been pvping alot and have NEVER once got harrow off on someone.

I would say that dreadknight is good for people who spend the time learning how to play it. Regarding this thread, a class that has skills that don't work - should be fixed. Shadowstep should be able to be used when chasing people and should have an extended range as it's impossible to catch up to nearly all classes in real-world pvp as we have no other movement abilities.
 

what777

Max Legacy Supporter
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
You know, I see alot of shit towards dreadknights - but I really do not think they are 'extremely strong' or OP. Empathy depends on how low health the dreadknight gets - so to use it, essentially you have to be below 6/7 hearts to make it effective - and when you use it in a fight, you'll only use it once due to the cooldown and the quickness of PVP in general. Harrow is incredibly hard to get off - I've been pvping alot and have NEVER once got harrow off on someone.

I would say that dreadknight is good for people who spend the time learning how to play it. Regarding this thread, a class that has skills that don't work - should be fixed. Shadowstep should be able to be used when chasing people and should have an extended range as it's impossible to catch up to nearly all classes in real-world pvp as we have no other movement abilities.

a lot of classes have skills that don't work all the time, and DK has a lot of armor and HP. a 3 second stun will make them so OP.
Just because Jump doesnt work for dragoon isnt a reason to give them a huge buff.
 

JacobBurkey

Portal
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
a lot of classes have skills that don't work all the time, and DK has a lot of armor and HP. a 3 second stun will make them so OP.
Just because Jump doesnt work for dragoon isnt a reason to give them a huge buff.

I'm not on anyone's side but, he threw out 3 options, but you guys aren't giving feedback on #1 and #3, just saying "#2 omg so op 3 sec stun wtf" Also, Jump the skill isn't broken, it works, but No-Cheat makes you go back to the spot you were in about 1/2 of the time.
 

Zaihn

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
I'm not on anyone's side but, he threw out 3 options, but you guys aren't giving feedback on #1 and #3, just saying "#2 omg so op 3 sec stun wtf" Also, Jump the skill isn't broken, it works, but No-Cheat makes you go back to the spot you were in about 1/2 of the time.

#1 looks extremely overpowered
#3 I don't think is possible for heroes
 

C4ruso

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
ShadowStep is not working everytime and harrow is so bad -.- i want soullech back
 

sheepcrys

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
Jun 17, 2013
I'm sorry but #3 is a no-no,

even NECROMANCER can't summon 2 skellies WHY the hell should dreadknight beable to summon...
 

HoldMyPie

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Location
Australia
I don't think you guys understand the point of this thread (or most of you). The solutions I offered were just some random ones I though up on the spot and in no way were meant to be taken literally. Those changes/additions get you guys posting and thinking up better solutions because obviously it's so bad and you're all scared it'll get put in.

The point of this thread was to fix dreadknights - a class which has two of it's skills UN-USEABLE. Not because of no-cheat, not because of Obama, but because they just don't work. Harrow doesn't work and shadowstep is a pain in the ass, but manageable - I put it in because it is supposed to be a brother to harrow.

Jump glitch is from no-cheat. Dragoon without jump wouldn't be goon - you can make do.
Harrow doesn't work. You can't use it. It's broken. It needs to be fixed.
 

what777

Max Legacy Supporter
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
Zaihn says he has no problem with Harrow, so you can't use it but he can for some reason?
 

what777

Max Legacy Supporter
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
He has no problem with shadowstep, not harrow.

Look what he said:
"I hardly ever use the shadowstep + harrow combo in unison but both skills are extremely useful on their own."
For a skill to be useful it has to work right.
 

Delfofthebla

Legacy Supporter 4
Retired Staff
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Location
United States
Zaihn has pretty much said what I would like to.

It takes some getting used to, but the current dreadknight is definitely strong--easily a top tier class. Harrow is only "essentially useless" in a 1v1 vs another melee. Against any caster or in any teamfight, you will easily get off harrow every time it is off CD. If you aren't able to do that, you need to re-evaluate your strategies. Even in a 1v1 melee situation, a few Dreadknight players I've talked to found little "tricks" in order to get it off easier.

While it isn't as easy to use the new DK skills as it could be, they are far from unusable, and far from worthless. You just need to adjust to it.


Your suggestions also conflict with the design. The Dreadknight was not meant to be mobile, and he was not meant to be able to "catch" people. If you want to catch players and have mobility, you should try another class, such as a dragoon or wizard. The immobility of the Dreadknight was an intentional weakness placed onto the class. With the amount of health, armor, and healing provided, giving them mobility as well is an absurd idea.
 

HoldMyPie

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Location
Australia
Zaihn has pretty much said what I would like to.

It takes some getting used to, but the current dreadknight is definitely strong--easily a top tier class. Harrow is only "essentially useless" in a 1v1 vs another melee. Against any caster or in any teamfight, you will easily get off harrow every time it is off CD. If you aren't able to do that, you need to re-evaluate your strategies. Even in a 1v1 melee situation, a few Dreadknight players I've talked to found little "tricks" in order to get it off easier.

While it isn't as easy to use the new DK skills as it could be, they are far from unusable, and far from worthless. You just need to adjust to it.


Your suggestions also conflict with the design. The Dreadknight was not meant to be mobile, and he was not meant to be able to "catch" people. If you want to catch players and have mobility, you should try another class, such as a dragoon or wizard. The immobility of the Dreadknight was an intentional weakness placed onto the class. With the amount of health, armor, and healing provided, giving them mobility as well is an absurd idea.
Well said. After talking to other people who have played/who play dreadknight, I believe the issue at the moment is just my own due to the lag I get from being an aussie with a crappy connection. Thanks for giving an answer on the mobility, I understand now, and that's fair considering the strength of dks.

Thanks for the reply, I guess the real issue is just lag for me. Harrow is impossible to pull off for me and I heard that other dk's were having incredibly trouble using it so I assumed it was an issue with the skill itself. The same goes for shadowstep - getting it off is hard because of the aussie connection.
 

Delfofthebla

Legacy Supporter 4
Retired Staff
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Location
United States
Well said. After talking to other people who have played/who play dreadknight, I believe the issue at the moment is just my own due to the lag I get from being an aussie with a crappy connection. Thanks for giving an answer on the mobility, I understand now, and that's fair considering the strength of dks.

Thanks for the reply, I guess the real issue is just lag for me. Harrow is impossible to pull off for me and I heard that other dk's were having incredibly trouble using it so I assumed it was an issue with the skill itself. The same goes for shadowstep - getting it off is hard because of the aussie connection.
Well, you're right about the lag. In general, lag fucks up targeting. When a specific direction is being required in addition to the lag, it's no surprise you are having some issues.

I wish this was something we could sort out on our end, but unfortunately, I don't think it is. I'm afraid that for now DK will be unreliable for people with latency issues.
 

HoldMyPie

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Location
Australia
Tip 1 of skill targeting: Spam yo key until you see it fire :p

-From a Necro
I try :(

My service provider is shit so I'm paying personally to switch to a better one since my parents are such dicks about it and want to keep their optusnet.com.au email accounts.
 
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