Suggestion [Enchanter] Enchantment Books & Abilities

[Connor12444]

Actually, they changed Sharpness damage after beta (I think it was beta. may have been later, Check the minecraft wiki.) to 0.625 sharpness per tier in vanilla. That makes sense, 1 dmg/tier in Herocraft. I like the way that works out.

 

[Connor12444]

Right, each tier of Sharpness does 1 extra damage. That's the perfect amount. Sharpness I isn't that powerful, but Sharpness X isn't OP. I don't understand how you can say Sharpness III ruins the game @mikehk . Custom Items currently already have much more than that, they don't ruin the game.

I like where you plan to go with Custom items @Kainzo . The attribute system introduced in 1.6 work perfectly with that. You could actually give custom items (blade of woe, in particular) the health boost attribute, which would be quite cool. There could be special items that make you move faster, or breath under water, or jump higher. You can do a whole lot more with that than the enchantment system.

One thing though, I think special items should be able to be used by all classes. If a special item is a sword, a dreadknight or a pyromancer should be able to wield it. This shouldn't be hard to do. You could perhaps get that result with a custom attribute.

 

[mikehk]

yes, the thing is that if only a few people have these enchants, it ruins the game for other people. I have a sharp 5 sword on live atm and it seems really easy to kill people with it. the thing is, as I just said, not everybody has access to these enchants. I've had 2 custom items drop for me, and neither were compatible with classes I play. alot of people have never even found 1 custom item on their own. sharp X is OP, and a cap I'd have to say would be sharp VII, that is IF everyone had ease of access to some form of enchants. One way I can see this becoming acceptable is if the drop rate on custom items was changed from .00000000001% chance to .1% chance.

ALSO

One thing though, I think special items should be able to be used by all classes. If a special item is a sword, a dreadknight or a pyromancer should be able to wield it. This shouldn't be hard to do. You could perhaps get that result with a custom attribute.

I disagree with dis. however cool it would have been to use my custom items, it makes no sense whatsoever for a class that doesnt know how to use a bow, suddenly know how to use a greatbow of andromeda, or a caster using a sword.

 

[Connor12444]

Well, I suppose that makes sense @mikehk . But the cap is just fine at X:

One way I can see this becoming acceptable is if the drop rate on custom items was changed from .00000000001% chance to .1% chance.

If the chance was changed to .1%, that means every ten mobs you should get one (I think it should be about every 400). The point is that not everyone is an enchanter right? well first of all enchanters frequently sell the things they make, and secondly, the cap pretty much is VII. Might I refer you to this post:

I see you're point. You shouldn't be able to enhance Knockback/Punch past II. Especially Punch. Some things should be able to go to X. Power shouldn't, Power V is already very strong, but we can't nerf it without taking enchanting completely away, that's why you can enhance it in the first place. Enhancing doesn't make enchanting any easier, It just gives enchanters the ability to use enchantment books as if they had access to an anvil (you can combine enchantment books in an anvil to make a stronger one).

One thing I didn't say you could do, was enhance an enchantment that already exists on a weapon. If you have a Sharpness III sword, you can't put more sharpness on top of that to make it Sharpness IV. Once you've applied the enchantment on the weapon, you can't edit it any more. You can put a different enchantment on it with a totally different book, but not the same one.

Things like Respiration, and Aqua Affinity should go to X because they don't effect combat very much, if at all. I think Sharpness should because rare drops have those enchantments.

What you need to understand @@mikehk is that it is in no way easy to get Sharpness X. For each tier, you need TWICE as many books as the last. I wrote a little formula for finding out how many tier I books you need for the tier you're looking for:

2^(X-1); where X is the tier you're looking for.

I've shown this in a previous reply to JupiterRome, but to get Sharpness X you need 512 Sharpness I books. Using the formula, 2^(10-1), you can see that this is true.

If you want Sharpness I for some reason, it's 2^(1-1), which equals 2^0th, and anything to the 0th power equals 1. You would need I Sharpness I book.The formula isn't really necessary here.

If you want Sharpness II, it's 2^(2-1), which is equal to 2. That means you need two Sharpness I books to make that, which is true.

If you want Sharpness III it's 2^(3-1), which is equal to 4 Sharpness I books. The number of Sharpness I books you need increases exponentially as you aim for higher and higher tiers of Sharpness.

If you want Sharpness IV it's 2^(4-1), which is equal to 8 Sharpness I books. Getting higher.

It's around Sharpness V where it gets quite difficult. You know the randomness of enchanting, you never get what you want. And you will go through a lot of books before you get 16 Sharpness I books, already proving difficult. But here's the formula anyway. 2^(5-1) = 16 Sharpness I books.

Of course, the higher level enchanter you are, the higher tier Sharpness book you can start out with. This means level 60 enchanters have the advantage because they can start by enchanting Sharpness IV or V books, instead of II or III books. If you're really low level you have to start with I books, and there is no guarantee you're getting Sharpness in the first place.

Lets get out of the enchantable range. Sharpness VI is 2^(6-1) = 32 Sharpness I books. This is still "doable" but it's quite a lot.

Sharpness VII (I guarantee you no one will be able to get this, it's way too much work), is 2^(7-1) = 64 Sharpness I books. Very few, if any players would be able to get this. They would have to go completely out of their way.

But continuing on toward Sharpness X, the cap. Sharpness IIX is 2^(8-1) = 128 Sharpness I books, which is WAY up there.

Sharpness IX is 2^(9-1) = 256 Sharpness I books. Wow. Really high now.

And finally, Sharpness X, the cap, 2^(10-1) = 512 Sharpness I enchanted books. V to VI was difficult, but still doable within a week. Sharpness X, that might take years. or just /enchant Sharpness X.

I would draw a lovely graph for you, but I really don't want to. If you'd like to see one, I'd be happy to upload an image.

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I'm not sure how Sharpness scales as you increase tiers with Herocraft, but perhaps @@Kainzo could help me out there. If it turns out that Sharpness X does 150 damage/hit, then I gladly withdraw all my previous statements.

If you recall (or if you don't) Sharpness VII requires 64 Sharpness I books. Which is no doubt obtainable, but a royal pain in the ass to achieve, for a single Sharpness VII weapon that will no doubt break one day. That would be a fine cap, seeing as no one would likely go any higher. It pretty much already is the cap, because for Sharpness IIX you need 128 sharpness I books, and that is incredibly impractical. My cap, Sharpness X requires 512 books. I very highly doubt anyone will ever get this (which kinda makes my argument invalid). In fact I highly double anyone will get Sharpness VII. I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see Sharpness VI. But it just being possible is important. A wise man once said 'If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing," That man was Adam Savage. He would most certainly be the guy who would get 512 books and get Sharpness X. If you get 512 books, you should be ALLOWED to have Sharpness X.

Edit: On a side note, I was curious about how many Sharpness I enchantment books it would take to the enchantment.sharpness.9001 (it's probably only that high so you can say 'IT'S OVER 9000!" You could one shot anything with just enchantment.sharpness.100). Well... I got an overflow error on my calculator, and I didn't feel like actually doing the math, although math is my favorite subject, calculations and math are not quite exactly the same. But I couldn't even find the answer by googling it. So here is what my OTHER calculator gave me: '1.8619198236024468700516469474433e+2709.' Wow. I here by issue a challenge. Whoever can give me the answer to the math problem, '2 to the power of 9000,' wins math, and the internet, forever...

 

[mikehk]

yes yes, it'd be a pain to get to X, but for people with time, it's doable. I just dont want to see anybody with any sharpness of VII as it just gets stupid from there. yes, I know you want to buff enchanters, but you have to actually consider balance. with stackable enchants, the poor will usually lose, and the wealthy will usually win. the wealthy should have benefits, sure, but not when it comes to combat. I can agree that smite, bane of arthropods, and fishing pole stuffs or unbreaking or efficiency should be stackable, but not prot or sharpness, especially not punch or knockback.

 

[Connor12444]

Actually... I don't want to buff enchanters at all @mikehk ...

I just want to make them able to enchant Axes and Shovels with Sharpness. It's not fair as it is, as a Dreadknight Enchanter, I can't ever get a Sharpness Axe at the table. I said to myself, gee, I wish I could use enchantment books. The skills I added do EXACTLY WHAT AN ANVIL DOES except you cannot repair enchanted weapons tools or armor. Or rename them. That's it. In an anvil, you can stack enchantment books. But they only go up to the default limit.

That was great and all, but Swords still had the upper hand because you didn't have to bother with the book in the first place. So I tried to kill two birds with one stone and make obtaining 'rare drop' item equivalents at a table possible. This means that a Sword, at a table, will not be equal to an Axe, with an Enchantment Book.

I'm glad we can agree on ONE thing, but I think Sharpness X is not going to help a level 50 defeat a level 60. It might let a level 50 defeat a level 55, but the abilities are still way stronger than any melee attack.

I think enchanters could use a buff, and I don't think this one completely overdoes it, but I also think they weren't UP before.

BEFORE: MAX = SHARPNESS V ON SWORDS ONLY, AXES AND SHOVEL CLASSES DO NOT BENEFIT

AFTER: MAX = SHARPNESS X, ALL TYPES OF WEAPONS BENEFIT, RARE-DROP-ESC ITEMS' EQUIVALENT ARE OBTAINABLE

I just saw a April fools pig rare drop weapon with, I kid you not, 'sharpness enchantment.level.12,' so I don't think @Kainzo thinks Sharpness VII is that OP. It was the 'Greataxe of Pigs' or something like that.

 

[mikehk]

I just saw a April fools pig rare drop weapon with, I kid you not, 'sharpness enchantment.level.12,' so I don't think @Kainzo thinks Sharpness VII is that OP. It was the 'Greataxe of Pigs' or something like that.

I saw it too, and I hate the fact that it exists... I can agree that axes and shovels need to be able to be enchanted with sharpness and whatnot, but I dont like the stackable sharpness/protection/knockback/punch/power. the other enchants, by all means, they provide little pvp benefits, so its just to ease leveling, which in my opinion is fine.

 

[Kainzo]

They are this era's "super rare and powerful" items.

Sharp XII isnt that game breaking and its a high economy value item. I believe there are only two that exists atm.

 

[Connor12444]

It's nice to know you agree @Kainzo. Do you think this (or something like this) could be implemented in the future? It will make axes and shovels (Hoes, even) enchantable. A Sharpness X diamond spade would be a very high economy value item, and they wouldn't ruin the economy because they are tremendously hard to obtain. It would also allow very strong unbreaking enchantments to be placed on gold weapons and armor. I've toyed around with the plugin before, and since the /skill enchant and /skill enhance are abilities, the enhance caps and levels you unlock each enchantment would be fully customizable. It would be better than allowing enchantment book usage through anvils, because enchanters could use them without having access to anvils. Otherwise, a Smith Enchanter team could make a lot of souls manufacturing and selling Enchanted Axes, Shovels, and Hoes.

I realize I am quite late responding to the last two posts. I apologize, I was vacationing on Hunting Island, South Carolina (the second greatest Carolina), and there were a lot of feral cats on that island. I nearly had to get shots.

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Back to axes and shovels, as you know the decrease doubly fast when they're used in combat. This renders gold axes and shovels more useless then they already were. You could undoubtedly fix this with a bukkit plugin (I could attempt to write one if you'd like, but I have little experience with java. It is a programming language I'd like to learn), but I've looked into it a little bit and it seems that because this is hard wired into minecraft, the only way to get around it with a plugin would be to entirely double the base durability of player crafted axes. This would work, except then the axes and shovels would actually have double durability from what they had before when they are used to destroy dirt and wood. In my opinion this isn't a problem to classes that use Axes and Shovels, because supposedly they would know how to use those weapons effectively, and thus preserve durability. This would only be achievable if Herocraft Classes respected permission nodes, which I don't think they can be. I might be wrong though.

Another way to fix it would be to write an ability through the 'Heroes' plugin (I've toyed around with the plugin a little. It would probably be twice as easy than writing a bukkit plugin, and three times as customizable). You could give an ability (one that wouldn't be activated with a command, like potion drinking, or lighter use) to Dreadknight, Berserker, Ranger, and Pyromancer (I think those are all the axe classes) that gives them double durability on their respective weapon. These ability could be called, 'Axe Training,' or 'Spear Training,' (Shovels are representing spears I"m pretty sure), or something like that.

 

[Tyner Roycroft]

This seems like a cool idea!

 

[Connor12444]

@Kainzo you said you would like for custom items to use the attribute system implemented in 1.6 correct? I'm not entirely sure this would work. A diamond sword, automatically has the +6 attack damage attribute, making it do 7 damage total. Obviously it does way more than 7 damage. More like 57 damage. Does the +6 attack damage attribute actually do anything in Herocraft? I suspect that your STR attribute and the attack damage attribute on a weapon have some sort of relation, but I haven't quite nailed down what it is. A diamond axe currently does 46 damage/swing for me when it's not enchanted with anything. Unfortunately, unless something is done it will continue to do 46 damage, as sharpness is unobtainable. But diamond axes have the +5 attack damage attribute by default. Does this mean the axe actually does 51 damage? Or does it only do 46 and the +5 is already factored in?

I'm sure other attributes like Health Boost, or Water Breathing work fine. This one in particular confuses me. I hope you can fill me in.

 

[Connor12444]

Mikehk cleared that last question up for me in game. I don't need anyone else to answer it anymore.

 

[Connor12444]

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[Connor12444]

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