Suggestion [Enchanter] Enchantment Books & Abilities

[Connor12444]

Previously, I made a thread about Axe and Shovel durability and how you can't enchant them with Sharpness, Smite, Bane of Arthropods, Fire Aspect, all that good stuff. Here I'm going more into the enchantment issue, and how to fix it. Enchantment books have been part of minecraft for a while now, and Herocraft has yet to take advantage of them. This might be the only way for an Enchanter to create an Axe or Shovel with Sharpness.

The Enchanter profession has only 3 skills. Enchanting, Enchantment Table access, and Disenchant which it gets at level 30. As you level, you can produce stronger and stronger enchantments. As an Enchanter you can already enchant an enchantment book, but there isn't any way for you to apply said enchantment onto an item. Now, I toyed around in my head with several ways. This one I think is the best:

Several new enchanter skills are added to the class. At level 11, '/skill EnchantUnbreaking <value>' is unlocked. This skill works similar to /skill recall, in that it uses up items when you use it. To be able to use it, you must have an Unbreaking enchantment book in your inventory. Lets say it's Unbreaking II. You hold the item you wish to enchant in your hand, and type /skill EnchantUnbreaking 2. Like recall, you then receive slowness for several seconds while it warms up. After the warm up is completed, the server removes the enchantment book being used, and applied the enchantment to the item you were holding. This would work for Axes Shovels and Hoes, as well as Swords. No anvil required. The skill /skill EnhanceUbreaking <value>, combines two Unbreaking books you have in your inventory and combines them to make one stronger one. For example, if you have two Unbrekaing II books, you can do '/skill EnhanceUnbreaking 2' and it will combine them into one Unbreaking III book. The value you enter is the tier of the ingredients, not the product. The maximum value for enhancing any enchantment is 10. Although I think it would be cool if there wasn't a cap. It becomes harder and harder to enhance a book with each level you do so. This means Sharpness 100 would be exponentially harder to obtain then Sharpness 10. I doubt anyone would ever get that high, since 100 would take two Sharpness 99 books, and 99 would take two 98 books. Of course, you can't enhance SilkTouch, that wouldn't have any effect. And FireAspect 100 is the same as FireAspect II, the cap for FireAspect would be II. The reason I say 10 is the cap, because once you go past there it gives it an annoyingly long tag like 'enchantment.sharpness.9001,' as seen in maps like Forbidden Ant Farm survival. 'Sharpness X' is so much neater.

Here is the list of enchanter skills:

-Level 10, Enchanting
-Level 10, Enchantment Table Access
-Level 11, /skill EnchantUnbreaking <value>
-Level 11, /skill EnhanceUnbreaking <value, 1-9>
-Level 12, /skill EnchantEfficiency <value>
-Level 12, /skill EnhanceEffiiency <value, 1-9>
-Level 13, /skill EnchantKnockback <value>
-Level 13, /skill EnhanceKnockback <value,1>
-Level 14, /skill EnchantLure <value>
-Level 14, /skill EnhanceLure <value,1-4>
-Level 15, /skill EnchantLuckOfTheSea <value>
-Level 15, /skill EnhanceLuckOfTheSea <value, 1-4>
-Level 16, /skill EnchantFeatherFalling <value>
-Level 16, /skill EnhanceFeatherFalling <value, 1-9>
-Level 17, /skill EnchantPunch <value>
-Level 17, /skill EnhancePunch <value,1>
-Level 18, /skill EnchantBaneOfArthropods <value>
-Level 18, /skill EnhanceBaneOfArthropods <value,1-9>
-Level 19, /skill EnchantAquaAffinity <value>
-Level 19, /skill EnhanceAquaAffinity <value,1-9>
-Level 20, /skill EnchantRespiration <value>
-Level 20, /skill EnhanceRespiration <value,1-9>
-Level 21, /skill EnchantSmite <value>
-Level 21, /skill EnhanceSmite <value, 1-9>
-Level 22, /skill EnchanntThorns <value>
-Level 22, /skill EnhanceThorns <value, 1-9>
-Level 23, /skill EnchantSilkTouch <value>
-Level 24, /skill EnchantLooting <value>
-Level 24, /skill EnhanceLooting <value, 1-4>
-Level 25, /skill EnchantFlame <value>
-Level 26, /Skill EnchantFireProtection <value>
-Level 26, /skill EnhanceFireProtection <value, 1-9>
-Level 27, /skill EnchantBlastProtection <value>
-Level 27, /skill EnhanceBlastProtection <value, 1-9>
-Level 28, /skill EnchantFortune <value>
-Level 28, /skill EnhanceFortune <value, 1-4>
-Level 29, /skill EnchantFireAspect <value>
-Level 29, /skill EnhanceFireAspect <value, 1>
-Level 30, /skill Disenchant
-Level 31, /skill EnchantProjectileProtection <value>
-Level 31, /skill EnhanceProjectileProtection <value, 1-9>
-Level 32, /skill EnchantInfinity <value>
-Level 33, /skill EnchantProtection <value>
-Level 33, /skill EnhanceProtection <value, 1-9>
-Level 34, /skill EnchantPower <value>
-Level 34, /skill EnhancePower <value, 1-4>
-Level 35, /skill EnchantSharpness <value>
-Level 35, /skill EnhanceSharpness <value, 1-9>
-Level 40, /skill SellENCHANTEDBOOK

Now most enhancable enchantments go up to 9, (which means two tier 9 books form one tier 10 book). Some however only go up to 4. This is for good reason. Power scales exponentially, which means Power X is more than triple power V. Others, like Sharpness, do not scale this way, and they go up to 9. Fire Aspect II is on equal grounds with FireAspect 100, because after tier 1, all of them only apply 7 burn ticks. I'm not familiar with Lure and LuckOfTheSea (because I never use them), but I'm pretty sure they aren't like FireAspect. If I'm wrong about this please tell me. You'll also notice that at level 40, Enchanters can create Enchanted Book Shops. This doesn't take anything away from merchant, because only other Enchanters would buy these books (or smiths if they ever unrestrict anvils).

This is truly spectacular because not only does it allow Enchanters to forge Sharpness Axes Shovels and even Hoes, it doesn't take any of the randomness away from enchanting. The Enchanter still has to enchant the book themselves, the skills just allow them to do what anvils do, and apply books to weapons and combine them to make stronger tiers. In fact, it's better than anvils because you can combine books up to tier 10, which you can't normally do with anvils. Sure, you can still straight up enchant a sword directly from the table, but you're not going to get Sharpness X on it no matter what level you are (I think this is true, Herocraft might have modified the Enchantment table code to extend the max enchantment caps). This puts Axes, Shovels, and Hoes on even grounds with Swords.

If I missed any enchantments, or if you would like to see the order of enchantments you obtain rearranged, please leave a reply below. Thanks.

 

[devotedworker]

I think this would be a good plan of action to do, seeing Anvils do not work yet on bukkit servers. I think this could work

 

[Connor12444]

Thanks. It working was the plan. I had other ideas of how to get around the problem. An idea was do make '/skill enchant' pull up the anvil menu, but then we run into the same bukkit problem as before, and then enchanters might be able to repair and name tools. Another idea was to have the skill bring up the furnace GUI come up, and you would place the book in the fuel slot, and the item into the top slot, and it would smelt into the enchanted item. You could even smelt an enchantment book using an identical one as fuel to replicate what I decided should be /skill Enhance. The only problem was the levels. It would be impossible to make different enchantments become accessible at different levels.

 

[JupiterRome]

I think one of the cool ideas of enchanter is that they don't know what they are going to get out of enchanting, this would allow u to get like amazing god weapons really cheap! TRUST ME WE DONT NEED DRUIDS WITH KNOCKBACKK XD

 

[devotedworker]

I think one of the cool ideas of enchanter is that they don't know what they are going to get out of enchanting, this would allow u to get like amazing god weapons really cheap! TRUST ME WE DONT NEED DRUIDS WITH KNOCKBACKK XD

YES WE DO Mahahaha!

 

[Connor12444]

I think one of the cool ideas of enchanter is that they don't know what they are going to get out of enchanting, this would allow u to get like amazing god weapons really cheap! TRUST ME WE DONT NEED DRUIDS WITH KNOCKBACKK XD

@JupiterRome I don't understand what you're saying. This in no way decreases the randomness of enchantments. It just allows enchantment books to be utilized. /skill enchant doesn't enchant the weapon unless you have that enchantment book in your inventory. If I wanted to get a diamond sword with Sharpness X Knockback X, I would have to enchant books until I got one of those enchants. Just because I want knockback doesn't mean I won't get BaneOfArthropods. There is no way to tell what the enchantment will be.

Also, this doesn't make obtaining god weapons any less difficult. Lets say I want Smite X. I start by enchanting a book, which will probably not give me the enchantment I want anyway. Lets say I get a Smite III enchantment book. That's good, but it's not smite X.

For smite X I need two smite IX books. To get two smite XI books I need four smite IIX books. To get four smite IIX books I need eight smite VII books. to get eight smite VII books I need sixteen smite VI books. For sixteen smite VI books, I need thirty two smite V books. Whilst smite V is possible to get straight up at an enchantment table, it's quite rare and would require me to be a high level. I'd also need thirty two of them. I could get thirty two smite V books with sixty four smite IV books (anything less than V is enchantable at a table). To get those sixty four smite IV books I need one hundred and twenty eight smite III books. To get one hundred and twenty eight smite III books I need two hundred and fifty six smite II books. To get two hundred and fifty six smite II books I need a grand total of FIVE HUNDRED AND TWELVE smite I enchanted books. Imagine how much XP that would drain you. All that for a single Smite X weapon. Imagine if I was trying to make a Smite X Knockback X weapon (even though knockback would only go up to V, for the exact reason you say this shouldn't be implemented). Sure, if you did this with Sharpness it would kick ass, but it's honestly easier to find one as a rare drop than make one with this method. But alas, it is possible. And that is the idea.

Not to mention this makes enchanting Axes Shovels and Hoes with enchantments like Sharpness. Sharpness X would be a royal pain in the ass to get, but Smite V or VI is very much obtainable, and isn't that OP.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be aggressive here, if that's the vibe I'm giving off. I just don't understand the validity of the point you're trying to make.

 

[mikehk]

nooooo, do not allow stakable enchants!

EDIT: further detail now.
with stackable enchantments, you could simply do alot of lv 1 enchants and stack all of those together for cheap ass sharpness X, in which sharpness 3 currently ruins the game as it provides insane advantages. the same with protection. the system of enhancing enchants will not come to play if I have anything to say about it.

 

[Connor12444]

'Stakable' enchants? Oh stackable. Do you think the cap is too high? In vanilla minecraft you can already stack enchantment books to create larger ones. Like I said it goes up exponentially. 512 Sharpness I books is a lot to make 1 Sharpness X. I was debating not having a cap, and allowng crazy people to try and make a Sharpness 9000 sword. The amount of books you need would be absolutely ridiculous, and the tag on the enchantment would be enchantment.sharpnedd.9001 and that's ugly on a weapon.

Thanks for your input guys. I"m open to suggestions.

@mikehk That's what I was addressing earlier with JupiterRome. It would take an absolute metric shit ton of Sharpness I books to make a Sharpness X book. 512 to be exact. That's a lot. It's not exactly cheap ass god weapons. I'm not familiar with how Herocraft scales Sharpness, but If you would care to enlighten me I would be more than happy to lower the cap to Sharpness V. In the last map, I had Sharpness IV on a diamond sword, and it didn't seem to make much of a difference. If Sharpness III ruins the game, why are Sharpness X weapons given as a rare drop?

 

[mikehk]

conner, this is NOT vanilla minecraft. high enchants like sharpness 5 (I have one on live, and it's ridiculous) ruin the game. they give classes too much of an advantage, such as druids/wizards/supports/rangers with knockback or punch is just flat out stupid. they break the game.

 

[Connor12444]

I see you're point. You shouldn't be able to enhance Knockback/Punch past II. Especially Punch. Some things should be able to go to X. Power shouldn't, Power V is already very strong, but we can't nerf it without taking enchanting completely away, that's why you can enhance it in the first place. Enhancing doesn't make enchanting any easier, It just gives enchanters the ability to use enchantment books as if they had access to an anvil (you can combine enchantment books in an anvil to make a stronger one).

One thing I didn't say you could do, was enhance an enchantment that already exists on a weapon. If you have a Sharpness III sword, you can't put more sharpness on top of that to make it Sharpness IV. Once you've applied the enchantment on the weapon, you can't edit it any more. You can put a different enchantment on it with a totally different book, but not the same one.

Things like Respiration, and Aqua Affinity should go to X because they don't effect combat very much, if at all. I think Sharpness should because rare drops have those enchantments.

What you need to understand @mikehk is that it is in no way easy to get Sharpness X. For each tier, you need TWICE as many books as the last. I wrote a little formula for finding out how many tier I books you need for the tier you're looking for:

2^(X-1); where X is the tier you're looking for.

I've shown this in a previous reply to JupiterRome, but to get Sharpness X you need 512 Sharpness I books. Using the formula, 2^(10-1), you can see that this is true.

If you want Sharpness I for some reason, it's 2^(1-1), which equals 2^0th, and anything to the 0th power equals 1. You would need I Sharpness I book.The formula isn't really necessary here.

If you want Sharpness II, it's 2^(2-1), which is equal to 2. That means you need two Sharpness I books to make that, which is true.

If you want Sharpness III it's 2^(3-1), which is equal to 4 Sharpness I books. The number of Sharpness I books you need increases exponentially as you aim for higher and higher tiers of Sharpness.

If you want Sharpness IV it's 2^(4-1), which is equal to 8 Sharpness I books. Getting higher.

It's around Sharpness V where it gets quite difficult. You know the randomness of enchanting, you never get what you want. And you will go through a lot of books before you get 16 Sharpness I books, already proving difficult. But here's the formula anyway. 2^(5-1) = 16 Sharpness I books.

Of course, the higher level enchanter you are, the higher tier Sharpness book you can start out with. This means level 60 enchanters have the advantage because they can start by enchanting Sharpness IV or V books, instead of II or III books. If you're really low level you have to start with I books, and there is no guarantee you're getting Sharpness in the first place.

Lets get out of the enchantable range. Sharpness VI is 2^(6-1) = 32 Sharpness I books. This is still "doable" but it's quite a lot.

Sharpness VII (I guarantee you no one will be able to get this, it's way too much work), is 2^(7-1) = 64 Sharpness I books. Very few, if any players would be able to get this. They would have to go completely out of their way.

But continuing on toward Sharpness X, the cap. Sharpness IIX is 2^(8-1) = 128 Sharpness I books, which is WAY up there.

Sharpness IX is 2^(9-1) = 256 Sharpness I books. Wow. Really high now.

And finally, Sharpness X, the cap, 2^(10-1) = 512 Sharpness I enchanted books. V to VI was difficult, but still doable within a week. Sharpness X, that might take years. or just /enchant Sharpness X.

I would draw a lovely graph for you, but I really don't want to. If you'd like to see one, I'd be happy to upload an image.

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I'm not sure how Sharpness scales as you increase tiers with Herocraft, but perhaps @Kainzo could help me out there. If it turns out that Sharpness X does 150 damage/hit, then I gladly withdraw all my previous statements.

 

[Kainzo]

I think this would be a good plan of action to do, seeing Anvils do not work yet on bukkit servers. I think this could work

Anvils dont work on "Heroes" bukkit servers. They can work just not restricted - an API is actually being created but thats been a "year+" job.

I see you're point. You shouldn't be able to enhance Knockback/Punch past II. Especially Punch. Some things should be able to go to X. Power shouldn't, Power V is already very strong, but we can't nerf it without taking enchanting completely away, that's why you can enhance it in the first place. Enhancing doesn't make enchanting any easier, It just gives enchanters the ability to use enchantment books as if they had access to an anvil (you can combine enchantment books in an anvil to make a stronger one).

One thing I didn't say you could do, was enhance an enchantment that already exists on a weapon. If you have a Sharpness III sword, you can't put more sharpness on top of that to make it Sharpness IV. Once you've applied the enchantment on the weapon, you can't edit it any more. You can put a different enchantment on it with a totally different book, but not the same one.

Things like Respiration, and Aqua Affinity should go to X because they don't effect combat very much, if at all. I think Sharpness should because rare drops have those enchantments.

What you need to understand @mikehk is that it is in no way easy to get Sharpness X. For each tier, you need TWICE as many books as the last. I wrote a little formula for finding out how many tier I books you need for the tier you're looking for:

2^(X-1); where X is the tier you're looking for.

I've shown this in a previous reply to JupiterRome, but to get Sharpness X you need 512 Sharpness I books. Using the formula, 2^(10-1), you can see that this is true.

If you want Sharpness I for some reason, it's 2^(1-1), which equals 2^0th, and anything to the 0th power equals 1. You would need I Sharpness I book.The formula isn't really necessary here.

If you want Sharpness II, it's 2^(2-1), which is equal to 2. That means you need two Sharpness I books to make that, which is true.

If you want Sharpness III it's 2^(3-1), which is equal to 4 Sharpness I books. The number of Sharpness I books you need increases exponentially as you aim for higher and higher tiers of Sharpness.

If you want Sharpness IV it's 2^(4-1), which is equal to 8 Sharpness I books. Getting higher.

It's around Sharpness V where it gets quite difficult. You know the randomness of enchanting, you never get what you want. And you will go through a lot of books before you get 16 Sharpness I books, already proving difficult. But here's the formula anyway. 2^(5-1) = 16 Sharpness I books.

Of course, the higher level enchanter you are, the higher tier Sharpness book you can start out with. This means level 60 enchanters have the advantage because they can start by enchanting Sharpness IV or V books, instead of II or III books. If you're really low level you have to start with I books, and there is no guarantee you're getting Sharpness in the first place.

Lets get out of the enchantable range. Sharpness VI is 2^(6-1) = 32 Sharpness I books. This is still "doable" but it's quite a lot.

Sharpness VII (I guarantee you no one will be able to get this, it's way too much work), is 2^(7-1) = 64 Sharpness I books. Very few, if any players would be able to get this. They would have to go completely out of their way.

But continuing on toward Sharpness X, the cap. Sharpness IIX is 2^(8-1) = 128 Sharpness I books, which is WAY up there.

Sharpness IX is 2^(9-1) = 256 Sharpness I books. Wow. Really high now.

And finally, Sharpness X, the cap, 2^(10-1) = 512 Sharpness I enchanted books. V to VI was difficult, but still doable within a week. Sharpness X, that might take years. or just /enchant Sharpness X.

I would draw a lovely graph for you, but I really don't want to. If you'd like to see one, I'd be happy to upload an image.

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I'm not sure how Sharpness scales as you increase tiers with Herocraft, but perhaps @Kainzo could help me out there. If it turns out that Sharpness X does 150 damage/hit, then I gladly withdraw all my previous statements.

this system is well thought out, but its going the opposite route of where we want custom items to go.

 

[Kimsgrim]

I think creating a simple enchanter skill where you type the enchant you want, then have it use X amount of XP. Higher XP cost for higher level enchants.

 

[Connor12444]

Thanks @Kainzo. I didn't exactly know where you planned to go with custom items, but I suspect you want to make them rare drops with enchantments you couldn't normally obtain. While my method does make it possible to obtain these weapons and tools *cough* 512 enchanted books *cough,* it's still incredibly difficult. The only reason I say X is the cap is because 'enchantment.Sharpness.9001' looks like crap. If that is where you plan to go, the cap needs to be lowered so that custom items can still be unobtainable.

Back to sharpness, In minecraft each tier of Sharpness adds 0.625 hearts of outgoing damage to the weapon. That is of course next to nothing in Herocraft, but a great deal in vanilla. Everything in Herocraft has been largely scaled up. I don't currently know how that scaling effect sharpness. Doth Kainzo knows?

@Kimsgrim , while that is a neat idea, it takes the randomness out of enchanting. Like JupiterRome said, that's the cool bit. You never know what you're going to get out of an enchant.

 

[Kainzo]

Thanks @Kainzo. I didn't exactly know where you planned to go with custom items, but I suspect you want to make them rare drops with enchantments you couldn't normally obtain. While my method does make it possible to obtain these weapons and tools *cough* 512 enchated boopks *cough,* it's still incredibly difficult. The only reason I say X is the cap is because 'enchantment.Sharpness.9001' looks like crap. If that is where you plan to go, the cap needs to be lowered so that custom items can still be unobtainable.

@Kimsgrim , while that is a neat idea, it takes the randomness out of enchanting. Like JupiterRome said, that's the cool bit. You never know what you're going to get out of an enchant.

In a way, we're doing away with the enchantment system with rare drops. The current custom rare drops are "what minecraft can do" but we've devised a system that will actually provide attributes on items and other things (like health and mana) ... to make it better integrated with Heroes.

 

[Connor12444]

You mean the attribute system that was added to the game in 1.6? That would be a lot easier to customize. I don't see any conflictions with that, and my Enchanter suggestions.

 

[mikehk]

sharpness scales differently on HC. @malikdanab I believe tested the numbers once. you have to think in terms of balance though, even with the added 1 damage per teir of sharpness, sharp 10 would be 10 damage, plus the damage of the sword. if I got my hands on that as a runeblade, I'd be dealing 76 damage per swing (with my build) plus the damage of my runes. this is assuming the damage added is 1 per teir of sharp.

EDIT: no idea where i got 80 something lol also edited to include info from post below

 

[malikdanab]

sharpness scales differently on HC. @malikdanab I believe tested the numbers once. you have to think in terms of balance though, even with the added 1.25 damage per teir of sharpness, sharp 10 would be 12.5 damage, plus the damage of the sword. if I got my hands on that as a runeblade, I'd be dealing 88.5 damage per swing (with my build) plus the damage of my runes. this is assuming the damage added is 1.25 per teir of sharp.

Nah, how it works in vanilla is that the damage ranges from 0.5-1.5. In HC it's a consistent 1 damage per tier.

 

[Kimsgrim]

In a way, we're doing away with the enchantment system with rare drops. The current custom rare drops are "what minecraft can do" but we've devised a system that will actually provide attributes on items and other things (like health and mana) ... to make it better integrated with Heroes.

The issue I've had with the randomness is the 20 second cool down on disenchant. I've had to disenchant a single pick 11 times to get eff4unb3 on it. It is insanely frustrating having to sit there and wait for the cool down when I am trying to make a set of armor.

It seems to be about a 20-30% chance of getting eff4unb3 on a pick or shovel.

 

[Kainzo]

The issue I've had with the randomness is the 20 second cool down on disenchant. I've had to disenchant a single pick 11 times to get eff4unb3 on it. It is insanely frustrating having to sit there and wait for the cool down when I am trying to make a set of armor.

It seems to be about a 20-30% chance of getting eff4unb3 on a pick or shovel.

The cooldown on disenchant is being lowered in Patch 5.3

 

[Kimsgrim]

The cooldown on disenchant is being lowered in Patch 5.3

Oh nice! May I ask by how much?