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Suggestion Dreadknights

Joined
Sep 10, 2012
I understand there have been nerfs, to things like Harmtouch, bringing the damage from 350 to 250.
As well as a nerf to the range of Decay. I am not sure the range of decay, however I think these are relatively petty nerfs.

HP: Dreadknights have the MOST hp of ALL classes on the server, even higher than paladins since the last pally nerf.

ARMOR: They have the second best armor, which isn't far behind paladins at all.

DOTs: Decay, insta-cast 196 damage over 21 seconds. Soulleech, (1.5s)warmup, 150 damage over 15 seconds with 150 HP returned to user at the end of the damage.

In comparison, this is ~25 less than bloodmages DOTs, which take 175 HP to cast for BMs, and returns 150.
Thus the HP difference (Which I think is reasonable to use for DOT comparison) is MUCH in favor of dreadknights. 196 from decay, and 300 from soulleech. (150dmg+150heal)

While it's 125 from boilblood(225dmg,125hp to cast) and 250 from soulleech(150dmg+150heal, 50 hp to cast)
Boilblood also has a 1.5s warmup.

Counting drainsoul, bloodmages are BARELY better casters than dreadknights.

BURST: They have 442 instant-burst damage, with Empathy and Harmtouch.

CC: They have a 4 second slow, and a 6 second blind and slow. (Empathy/Terror)
Manafreeze, which is a disaster for MOST caster/mana using specs.
Curse, which will nullify most melee dps threat.

AND, they do 57 damage with their axe, with is still 9 more than disciples stick.

They either need a SEVERE burst/dot damage nerf, or a SEVERE CC nerf.

I understand the lore, I understand the concept, and it's nice.
But it's OVERPOWERED.

There is NO REASON for their SLOW to do 192 damage, while they already have a 250 instant damage spell.

There is NO REASON for them to have bettter DOTs than bloodmages, while retaining MASSIVE survivability, MASSIVE burst damage, and MASSIVE CC.

Harmtouch can stay the same if things like decay/manafreeze/empathy/curse/soulleech are balanced.


I was told by a dreadknight, that the reason Empathy is balanced, is because they have to have taken about 400 damage themselves, to do THEIR full damage. DK problems.

If your problem is that you can't take enough damage to instantly nuke whoever you're fighting regardless of armor, your class has an issue.
 

judgedread540

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
May 13, 2012
Can't add anything else to that apart from that the decay description is slightly off, after doing testing with UltimateOptics . We learnt that decay does 30 less than in the description, not much of a difference but still a slight one.
 
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
I have discussed this further with c12, and I admit the issues may not be as drastic as I thought, however, my concerns still stand, and I still think require rebalancing. I am out atm however. And I think further on what needs to happen. A
nd I encourage you to post your thoughts as well,
 

Goonswarm

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
I have discussed this further with c12, and I admit the issues may not be as drastic as I thought, however, my concerns still stand, and I still think require rebalancing. I am out atm however. And I think further on what needs to happen. A
nd I encourage you to post your thoughts as well,
Put them on par with Dragoons, lets at least get them down to 1 piece of diamond armor.
I also agree on the slow not doing damage. I feel like I have a chance against a DK as a Wizard, but that is a very slim one, which depends on Harmtouch use. Well said in the OP. Lore is 0 excuse to have a class that towers above others in strength. If you won't change the class, lets start adding master specs into the mix which require X number of mastered specs.
 

Fjordsen

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Oct 30, 2011
DK is like a super tank with super DPS with a heal and with several nukes (Harmtouch and Empathy). Their DoTs does insane damage when combo'd with Auto attacks and Empathy/HarmTouch + Curse blocks nearly all auto attacks from enemy melee classes. Curse is like a more effective reversed Bladegrasp. Instead of blocking melee damage to themselves, they block the enemy from dealing out melee damage to anyone.

A class with so much DPS and damage shouldn't be able to be the most tanky class on Herocraft aswell only beaten by Paladin (Who has less HP, but more healing spells)

And they also have a slow that actually deals more damage then a skill like Mortalwound. Terror + Manafreeze should shut down a caster/healer completly pretty much. While the caster/healer is slowed, they can use Soulleech and Decay to keep the damage coming once they start kiting again. (If they survive)
 

Kainzo

The Disposable Hero
Staff member
Founder
Adventure Team
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Location
The 7th Circle of Heaven
I think the single piece of diamond may be the biggest thing to do.

It was an oversight that they had more hp than Paladins at max level - compared to their damage output.
Their hp gain per level is now 4.0 vs 5.0.

We have moved Harmtouch to level 50 and bumped Decay to level 10.
 

UltimateOptics

Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
May 18, 2012
I think the single piece of diamond may be the biggest thing to do.

It was an oversight that they had more hp than Paladins at max level - compared to their damage output.
Their hp gain per level is now 4.0 vs 5.0.

We have moved Harmtouch to level 50 and bumped Decay to level 10.
Kainzo
Just keep in mind paladins have lay hands and pray :p;)
 

leftovers5

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Location
USA
I can see some of these changes happening. Dreadknights deal too much damage right now for a warrior class and in general possess extreme survivability.
 
Joined
Oct 29, 2012
Location
United States, Florida
As a recently mastered dreadknight I can say our damage isn't as overwhelming as it is made out to be. I will however agree with you that we have an extremely high survivability when backed by a healer, or in a 1v1. Harmtouch has a 15 minute cooldown, and I hardly ever find myself using it in fights against rogue and fighter professions because I know I can win. I do however use it against caster professions, and it has proven to be the win in many cases.

As for dreadknight being a better casting class then bloodmage, that's simply ridiculous. Keep in mind our skills have about half the casting range, and we have lower base mana and mana regen. They also have constrict and bandage at their disposal, where we do not.

Healer professions have an easy time dealing with us because our spells are damage over time, and our "burst" skills have a cooldown of 15 minutes and 20 seconds, the latter only working if we have taken decent damage ourselves. So yes, if you wait 15 minutes between each fight dreadknight is a pretty formidable class.

The concept of harmtouch is cool, dealing damage to yourself in order to deal it to your opponents, but right now it's overpowered and a waste of such a potentially cool skill unless you wait 15 minutes between each fight. I feel a good solution would be to reduce the damage from 250 to 100, the damage done to yourself from 75 to 25, and the cooldown reduced from 15 minutes to 20-30 seconds. I think the only reason harmtouch has such a giant cooldown with massive damage is to be the dreadknight class's version of the paladin's layhands...and it doesn't have to be like that.

Obviously my opinions are slightly biased because I don't want the class nerfed to hell like paladin was with the self-heal nerf, but I agree slight tweaks are needed to prevent dreadknights from being able to beat caster specs because of harmtouch.
 

macura

Diamond
Joined
May 2, 2012
As a recently mastered dreadknight I can say our damage isn't as overwhelming as it is made out to be. I will however agree with you that we have an extremely high survivability when backed by a healer, or in a 1v1. Harmtouch has a 15 minute cooldown, and I hardly ever find myself using it in fights against rogue and fighter professions because I know I can win. I do however use it against caster professions, and it has proven to be the win in many cases.

As for dreadknight being a better casting class then bloodmage, that's simply ridiculous. Keep in mind our skills have about half the casting range, and we have lower base mana and mana regen. They also have constrict and bandage at their disposal, where we do not.

Healer professions have an easy time dealing with us because our spells are damage over time, and our "burst" skills have a cooldown of 15 minutes and 20 seconds, the latter only working if we have taken decent damage ourselves. So yes, if you wait 15 minutes between each fight dreadknight is a pretty formidable class.

The concept of harmtouch is cool, dealing damage to yourself in order to deal it to your opponents, but right now it's overpowered and a waste of such a potentially cool skill unless you wait 15 minutes between each fight. I feel a good solution would be to reduce the damage from 250 to 100, the damage done to yourself from 75 to 25, and the cooldown reduced from 15 minutes to 20-30 seconds. I think the only reason harmtouch has such a giant cooldown with massive damage is to be the dreadknight class's version of the paladin's layhands...and it doesn't have to be like that.

Obviously my opinions are slightly biased because I don't want the class nerfed to hell like paladin was with the self-heal nerf, but I agree slight tweaks are needed to prevent dreadknights from being able to beat caster specs because of harmtouch.
Paladin was not nerfed to hell, it was balanced. It is supposed to act as a support class and it was not doing that.
 

Fjordsen

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Oct 30, 2011
Remember that bloodmage doesn't have any armor or melee damage whereas DK got super heavy armor and good melee damage.
 
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