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Suggestion Completely revamp caster and its specs

werwew19

Coder
Balance Team
Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Location
United States
Over the times of Herocraft there has been tons of debate about our favorite the caster. I been thinking it over a lot and always saying hey that would be cool or hey this would be too perfect not to add or this should be changed. Sadly enough it pops up my head, when I am not on herocraft. Anyways let me get to my main point here.

Now my suggestion may not be flawless but I hope some of my ideas help contribute to a revamp to caster that is well needed.

Hey, werwew! Why do you feel caster needs to be revamped?
  • Classes in Herocraft rely on 3 or 4 buttons which gets boring and making domination in pvp very easily once you learn these buttons. Instead maybe adding more skills to use to help kill your target which will ultimately make it harder for the player and much more enjoyable.
  • Casters are very vulnerable to a lot of weaknesses while having one ultimate one its burst damage and I feel that shouldn't be a case.
  • Casters like wizard need to perfectly execute its skills otherwise its screwed which is basically what I described in bullet #2
-----------------------------------------
Anyways here are some of my suggestions.
With the constant hinting of health pool revamps and longer combat, these suggestions are basically geared for the hints of the upcoming changes. However if the health pool revamps don't come then I feel these suggestions should be tweaked to fit the current state of Herocraft PvP.
Fireball, Fireblast, Drainsoul
As these skills are instant I feel fireball and fireblast shouldn't be as strong as it is and caster classes should be more focused on doing tons of damage mid way into a fight, the burst for casters should build up over time and do its core damage midway towards the end of a fight.
How to fix it?
Nerf them to the ground and add a buff system for all the other skills to carry the classes damage output.
  • Add a buff system and background warmups. I feel buffs should be added to all classes to then it increase damage for a few seconds then ware off and that the buff system should definitely be added. It is such a fun system to have and with the new HP changes that Kainzo is planning then why the hell not! Regarding with what I said with background warmups for a class like wizard they can pop a buff with a 10 second warmup during a fight 10 seconds in they get an increase in damage for lets say 3 seconds during that warmup they should be allowed to freecast and do all there skills, while wizards do a crazy amount of damage an introduction of a buff system should definitely allow for all of wizards skills to be nerfed to the ground and show there true damage during a buff.

  • Casters are very squishy classes and they do tons of damage but why? In a lot of RPG's classes like necromancers who have a ton of dots also have some of the highest health pools in the game and in my opinion it works flawlessly. If you look at World of Warcraft for an example, the class Warlock has one of the highest health pools in the PvP scene but the catch is it takes them a bit of time to get there damage to really hurt which is mid to late fighting. Necromancer should definitely be geared the same as the class Warlock in WoW is. Our class necromancer have dots that tick very quickly and do a ton of damage and there web is deadly however if necromancers skills ticked slower and there health pools raised and there damage came in late game it would work flawlessly. Maybe add a dot that ticks for more damage and have an increase of damage every tick until the DOT expires? Maybe some kind of skill like wizards bolt that has a warmup but with there DOTS up it will bring out the damage of Necro and the opponent will be shocked as to what just happened? Because the burst would be instant kind of like bloodboil in a way but with a few skills, and you have a separate skill to trigger the burst after a buildup of dots. Maybe a system where you build up lets say souls, when your damage is ticking souls will build up then when you have enough souls you can do a strong burst skill?
These revamps may require some lathering for warrior and rogue classes but I feel the caster class isn't a complete path and it should rely more on cast times and an addition of buffs instead of a kite fireball, fireblast, cc, plaguebomb or bolt, fireball, fireblast. Fireball and fireblast are core caster skills and in my opinion that shouldn't be right and increasing the path "casters" skill cap by a ton, and making its true damage shine towards the middle to end of a fight is perfect.
Delfofthebla @Whoever is interested in balance and pvp
 

sheepcrys

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
Jun 17, 2013
if there is buff, then bard would be op

edit: if there is more buff, then bard would be even more op
 

LightningCape

Holy Shit!
Joined
Sep 4, 2012
Location
Republic City, Earth Kingdom
The only class [Caster] that needs a serious revamp is Necromancer as no one really plays it anymore.​
(In my opinion)​
Hey, werwew! Why do you feel caster needs to be revamped?

  • Classes in Herocraft rely on 3 or 4 buttons which gets boring and making domination in pvp very easily once you learn these buttons.
This would be Warrior specs not caster specs. Sorry.
 

Delfofthebla

Legacy Supporter 4
Retired Staff
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Location
United States
I completely agree with all of your points, but I'm not entirely sure I'm down with the weird buff system.

As far as revamps go, I definitely plan to give everything a good go-over when the attribute/gear plugins roll out. I already had some plans for wizard / necromancer in store. Whether or not Kainzo will agree with those plans is another story however. I have to run all my revamps by him first before they get the go-ahead.

I won't give any promises, as I don't know what my time schedule will look like around then, but if I am able, I'll try and make casters a bit more appealing.
 

werwew19

Coder
Balance Team
Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Location
United States
The only class [Caster] that needs a serious revamp is Necromancer as no one really plays it anymore.​
(In my opinion)​

This would be Warrior specs not caster specs. Sorry.

As Kainzo says stop smoking crack. Wizards don't use a lot of skills to pull out there 1k damage output in a matter of seconds. Beguilers use plaguebomb, fireball, pulse and fireblast. All these classes damage skills are only 3 or 4 buttons.
 

werwew19

Coder
Balance Team
Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Location
United States
I completely agree with all of your points, but I'm not entirely sure I'm down with the weird buff system.

As far as revamps go, I definitely plan to give everything a good go-over when the attribute/gear plugins roll out. I already had some plans for wizard / necromancer in store. Whether or not Kainzo will agree with those plans is another story however. I have to run all my revamps by him first before they get the go-ahead.

I won't give any promises, as I don't know what my time schedule will look like around then, but if I am able, I'll try and make casters a bit more appealing.

Regarding that background buff thing it was just an idea I never seen it done and thought it would be interesting however regular buffs would still work flawlessly in my opinion
 

werwew19

Coder
Balance Team
Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Location
United States
I think that the buff system will screw over casters caught by surprise.

With a complete revamp of the healthpools which is in planning it may or may not. If delf adds a buff system all of casters damage outputs would not be insane and make for longer combat that being the case if a melee class had a buff and it would destroy our normal caster spec it would also open up possible pathways for some casters to have some more mobility or crowd control
 

MultiHeartGold

Legacy Supporter 2
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Maybe all the Casters could get a passive skill that increases their skill damage every time their mana gets lower, and decreases the damage when it gets higher.
 

malikdanab

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
I must be the one silly pyromancer, if I use EVERY SINGLE ONE of my skills. It could just be the kit, but I find that each of its skills useful in one situation or another.

I agree, caster classes needs some rework.
 

malikdanab

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Necro needs mob summoning or else it's not necro.

Yep! It could just be that I base lots of my RPG knowledge on DnD, but it feels like HC's Necro isn't very accurate. Where are the summons and death-based skills? Plague, Blight, and Decay are all infection skills. Poison, hence its name is a poison skill which is earth magic. While not uncommon for liches, Despair is a fear skill which is usually not attributed with necromancers. I just imagine a day where I can be riding my Skeletal Horse leading my undead army in a charge!
 

LightningCape

Holy Shit!
Joined
Sep 4, 2012
Location
Republic City, Earth Kingdom
Hey, werwew! Why do you feel caster needs to be revamped?
  • Classes in Herocraft rely on 3 or 4 buttons which gets boring and making domination in pvp very easily once you learn these buttons.

If you use only 3 skills as a Wizard in PvP you're bad. I will say that wizard is godly in a 1v1 though.
 

sheepcrys

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
Jun 17, 2013
Yep! It could just be that I base lots of my RPG knowledge on DnD, but it feels like HC's Necro isn't very accurate. Where are the summons and death-based skills? Plague, Blight, and Decay are all infection skills. Poison, hence its name is a poison skill which is earth magic. While not uncommon for liches, Despair is a fear skill which is usually not attributed with necromancers. I just imagine a day where I can be riding my Skeletal Horse leading my undead army in a charge!

Agree, but they'll have to nerf the summon mob, since a player + a mob (zombie, skellies etc) can pwn pretty much anyone in 1v1 if have no nerf.
 

werwew19

Coder
Balance Team
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Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Location
United States
If you use only 3 skills as a Wizard in PvP you're bad. I will say that wizard is godly in a 1v1 though.

Sorry but you only need to use 3 skills as a wizard in PvP you most likely have been living under a rock. Wizard is my main class and I been playing it for over a year. There are 3 skills to pull off its burst, root and blink don't do damage so I am not counting those. There should be 5+ skills that do damage for every class.
 

Dreamcycler

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Jun 18, 2012
As a guiler I can run around use Plaguebomb Fireball and maybe one pulse Piggify and Masspiggify while kiting. Most everything dies without heals. After two combos
 

werwew19

Coder
Balance Team
Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Location
United States
As a guiler I can run around use Plaguebomb Fireball and maybe one pulse Piggify and Masspiggify while kiting. Most everything dies without heals. After two combos

I guess what I am trying to put at here having more things to do as a caster instead of just killing everything is what I want. An addition of 3-5 skills would make the classes very amusing to play
 
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