Once in a swamp, I got ambushed, and killed, which is quite fair if 8 am not paying attention. I am a lv20 and rising of hell is lv 60.
I respawn at the grave yard and go and get back the chest, just when I got it I got killed again, then he calls pewpew and troll me, using carrots and potatoes to hit me since I have nothing at all.
It isn't the pvp, the hardcore nature of the game, the leveling, the being a noob, the not being in a town, or any of those things that's the problem. It's people like this. "Oh hey, let's toy with him and hit him with produce because he's got no weapons or armor and we can!" I'm even okay with chest camping, you know, for loot? Except when it actually isn't for loot and just to beat people with carrots. "Oh hey, I figured out you're an easy target. Let me get my Ranger friend to track you across all the different worlds and kill you repeatedly because I decided I don't like you. See you tomorrow." This server has major issues with bullying, regardless of whether you think pvp is 100% or 50% or whatever of its intended focus.
The implementation of the Karma system is meant to deal with noob killing
In what way? My interpretation of the karma system was that killing people with negative karma values would improve your karma value, while killing people with positive values would lower your own. Have we been informed of the specifics of the actual mechanical effects of good vs evilness? More than 50% of the server consists of pvpers who don't think twice about who they kill. I don't see more than 10% of people on Herocraft being "good" aligned in those terms. Then, killing each other makes them all good aligned? I'm just not seeing mechanical vvalue for preventing noob-killing. It just sounds like another excuse for people to silence others who's opinions differ when it comes to what's enjoyable on this game.
Why do people kill low level players?
- they're more likely to be carrying a significant amount of material wealth on them, since they aren't established
- they're easier to kill by far
- they're more likely to be out in the open, leveling
low risk, high reward, and they're easier to find. It's harder to find and fight higher level players, because they're often in established towns, or not in a place people can get to them. If you add rewards for fighting higher level players, and disincentives for fighting lower level players, we can adjust the behavior of people.
Also people have different expectations of what pvp should be. When I think of open-world pvp, I don't expect a fair fight. I'm a wizard, I'll run away from you, I have no obligation to fight you. I'll bring in 9 of my friends, you can't and shouldn't expect a fair fight in open world pvp imo, that's what arenas and duels are for. You can't have it both ways, having open-world pvp, but that is also fair and balanced in all engagements.
Why do people kill low level players? Any number of reason, not the least of which is because they can, but this in itself is not the problem. I fully expect to be killed on this server. I am okay with this fact, as I know it's a pvp-oriented server. I do not expect to be the target of frequent harassment. Frankly, some of the things people get away with on this server astound me, and the fact that the mods don't/can't do anything about it, on account of the rules actually supporting the behavior, shocks me more. There's a difference between allowing free-reign pvp and endorsing cyber/internet bullying. It's not the pvp and the killing of little digital avatars that cause problems, it's the way it's gone about. If nothing else, the server suffers in that some players actually push away new players from the server. Less potential supporters, less voters, lower retention rates, etc.
I don't need a fair fight in open-world pvp. I need for people to act in a civil manner. It's not uncommon for there to be rules against bullying in mmo games, especially smaller ones with (supposedly) tight-knit communities. Advertising other servers quickly results in a ban. Why? Because it's an attempt to get people from the server to go to a different server. Intentionally trying to force people off the server with bullying and harassment is any different? "You may as well quit the server now" is something mods and admins want their players telling other players?
I will try to define Hardcore.
~~~
Your failures are: to interact with people
The general definition of hardcore on this server applies only when you are below level 40. Beyond that, it becomes your job to make the game "hardcore" for those people still below level 40. Yes, an exaggeration, but one not far from the truth. Again: I die; I get pvp'd; I get robbed; I don't complain. I am perfectly happy with hardcore gameplay. I am not happy with the overall attitude of player on the server and the constant verbal abuse and in-game harassment that passes for legal, 'hardcore' gameplay.
Interaction with player on this server is a joke. Happening upon another player in the open-world goes down in one of three ways: I win initiative and log off before I'm killed, they win initiative and flee/log off before they think I am going to kill them, or they win initiative and attack me, usually resulting in my death. Again, I couldn't care less that I've been killed (no more than I care about dying in other games), but the total lack of interactiong is pretty depressing, but perpetuated by the state of the server. Towns do little to mitigate these problems. Sure, you can safely chat with your townies (until the raiders come anyway), but glob-forbid you pass within an extended-proximity of any town you aren't apart of. Neutral, good, or evil, you'll be attacked or at best avoided like the plague. The only interaction I have with my fellow players is here on the forums and occationally chatting in spawn.
If you don't like PvP and complain about it then this isn't the place for you.
This is the go-to response of pvp-supporters who've nothing worthwhile left to say about a subject they have only one opinion on. Theoretically, since pvp is supposed to be only a part of the server, even 50%, there should be just as many ways to not-pvp as there are to be pvp'd, and it should be just as easy. But as soon as anyone mentions anything counter-productive to pvpers, they're flamed all to hell and back again with redundant comments about how we're just noobs that should gtfo if we don't like it. Sounds a lot like 50% to me. /sarcasm
The most common excuse is that "that's how they have fun." Ganking people who can't defend themselves may be how some of the more crude players get their giggles, but the frequent problem is that "that's not how everyone has fun." But, that doesn't matter. The general consensus is that anyone who doesn't enjoy pvp is a whiny baby who needs to stfu and gtfo or learn to play living like a rat. Doesn't sound very balanced to me.
Unfortunately,
I don't have the time to read all of this thread - so I'll just state what's up. Also, please keep it civil, mods have more time than me and will lock/delete/warn players for offending posts.
1) Herocraft is an RPG and we want players to form choices on how they play. It may be PVP, it may not be PVP, it may be RP, PVP, building, just chatting at spawn.
While I think this is a great idea, we hope to remedy "bullying" (or at least lesson it) by having extended tutorial worlds, full chaos worlds and everything else being very karma-influenced. Murderers will think twice before going down the sinful path.
Just to note, I love it when you comment and take interest in different arguement, Kainzo.
My problem with your second paragraph is that I don't think it is being accomplished. We have no choice when it comes to how we play. We are either engage in pvp, or we may go through a very specific procedure to playing to make sure we don't. I am very, very hopefuly for the karma system, but I am still very unsure that it will do much to alleviate the problems.
So is the hardcore thing to do basically just stand there, let them kill you, wait for them to loot your chest and move on, then continue doing what you're doing? Or do what I'm currently doing and log out on sight?
This^
Either way in this scenario, I am not playing the game, and definitely not in the way I wish to play it. At the expense of me enjoying the game, someone else is getting their kicks. Do I do things that prevent others from enjoying their time on this server? By logging out and not letting them kill me, am I depriving them of their fun for the day? This is the overall root of te problem when it comes to ganking--er, I mean pvp.
Don't get me wrong, I fully respect pvpers who engage in pvp with people they can actually be challenged by, but I hardly respect your pvp score or kill streak when your name pops up in the chat window several times for knocking off the same lv11 crafter. Top 5 PVPers are the top 5 gankers for the day.
And none of that even touches on the cyberbullying that goes down here. I love this server, and the plugins it uses. I love the (few) people I've met on here who are decent people I can call friends. Almost everyone else I've met seems to have a desire to do everything in their power to make me want to leave the server. I've even been told this point-blank. And the icing is that I can't do jack about it.
A class that makes you pvp-immune may not solve all the problems, and may introduce new ones all at once, but it's a step away from forcing everyone to play the game the way "50%" the server wants them to.
