Changes

[malikdanab]

So IDK why Delf coded it like this, but the current garrote is nothing like I imagined.

How it's supposed to work:

Garrote- (Requires a string in hand)
When you are sneaking/invisible you are able to garrote your target. This stuns the target.

The current garrote is just a much worse kick. (Higher CD, less damage, less silence, stealth requirement)

 

[malikdanab]

Side Note- Was talking to my bard buddies and they made me notice that bard gets kick at lvl 24. Aren't all base skills (Kick, Bash, etc...) Supposed to be lvl 1? This would require some skill shifting, but I think it would be better for bards to get there songs a little quicker.

 

[LightningCape]

Side Note- Was talking to my bard buddies and they made me notice that bard gets kick at lvl 24. Aren't all base skills (Kick, Bash, etc...) Supposed to be lvl 1? This would require some skill shifting, but I think it would be better for bards to get there songs a little quicker.

I'm currently 65 bard..we're not buddies? </3

Back on topic I will be making a list of some changes I'd like to see on Bard "balance wise" after mastering it and playing it for a few weeks on RPG I think I know this class very well.

Bard's skill spacing is fine as is the level you get kick. After level 24 Bard gets very good skills and more damage. What I'd like to see is changes in some of their skills (dmg wise).

 

[malikdanab]

Am I the only one who finds bars skills a little weird? When I think bard I expect powerful songs that have a long duration (With long CDs to match). Currently, bard's skills have very low CDs and are a little low on the damage side. Not really a balance concern it just feels wrong thematically.

Ehhh...I'm just getting picky P

 

[LightningCape]

So IDK why Delf coded it like this, but the current garrote is nothing like I imagined.

How it's supposed to work:

Garrote- (Requires a string in hand)
When you are sneaking/invisible you are able to garrote your target. This stuns the target.

The current garrote is just a much worse kick. (Higher CD, less damage, less silence, stealth requirement)

Working on that. I've seen some people online complain that Ninja isn't very stealthy and I have to agree to some extent. I feel like smoke should be changed to a toggle the costs mana to maintain.

Smoke
level 20: You toggle invisibility on for (X) mana per (X) seconds, (-X mana per level). taking dmg, doing dmg, or interacting with blocks will reveal you.


Thoughts? @Balance Team

 

[malikdanab]

Working on that. I've seen some people online complain that Ninja isn't very stealthy and I have to agree to some extent. I feel like smoke should be changed to a toggle the costs mana to maintain.

Smoke
level 20: You toggle invisibility on for (X) mana per (X) seconds, (-X mana per level). taking dmg, doing dmg, or interacting with blocks will reveal you.


Thoughts? @Balance Team

Would definitely make back-stab more reliable. Would probably require us to tone down it's damage (make it rely on this increase in utility for backstabs)

• Remove Blitz (Why is this a skill?)
• Convert fade into the skill you suggested.
• Convert smoke bomb into a short AOE blind ( could create some cool combos with fade)
• Remove blind
• Eviscerate requires sneak/stealth ( I generally want ninja to actually be stealthy. (Currently they are "Hur dur 200 dmg ," run away, and repeat)

 

[look_out]

Would definitely make back-stab more reliable. Would probably require us to tone down it's damage (make it rely on this increase in utility for backstabs)

• Remove Blitz (Why is this a skill?)
• Convert fade into the skill you suggested.
• Convert smoke bomb into a short AOE blind ( could create some cool combos with fade)
• Remove blind
• Eviscerate requires sneak/stealth ( I generally want ninja to actually be stealthy. (Currently they are "Hur dur 200 dmg ," run away, and repeat)

i like

 

[LightningCape]

Working on that. I've seen some people online complain that Ninja isn't very stealthy and I have to agree to some extent. I feel like smoke should be changed to a toggle the costs mana to maintain.

Smoke
level 20: You toggle invisibility on for (X) mana per (X) seconds, (-X mana per level). taking dmg, doing dmg, or interacting with blocks will reveal you.


Thoughts? @Balance Team

Would definitely make back-stab more reliable. Would probably require us to tone down it's damage (make it rely on this increase in utility for backstabs)

• Remove Blitz (Why is this a skill?)
• Convert fade into the skill you suggested.
• Convert smoke bomb into a short AOE blind ( could create some cool combos with fade)
• Remove blind
• Eviscerate requires sneak/stealth ( I generally want ninja to actually be stealthy. (Currently they are "Hur dur 200 dmg ," run away, and repeat)

@Kainzo

 

[Sirdemonic3]

the ninja ideas seem pretty cool

 

[malikdanab]

Just wondering if the changes on test will be pushed to live during the update:

• Bloodmage's: SiphonBlood and Infusion buff
• Ninja's Energize change.
• Wizard and Druids' Replenish change

 

[malikdanab]

New Years Resolution: Make Herocraft Balanced!
Welcome to 2014! Another year and HC is still going strong. I think the best way to start it is me ranting for god knows how long. Come along on this four part journey where I try to balance ALL THE CLASSES! Today's Episode-
Warriors

Berserker-
My personal biases aside, I truly believe berserker is a very balanced class. While it does indeed have great strengths (No pun intended) it's also has distinct weaknesses. It is what I think should be a basis to which we balance classes by.

Paladin-
Paladin has the potential to be great, but atm is severely lacking. Ways I could see to improve the class:

• Buff Magic Ward: Currently the skill is very underwhelming. It's duration needs to be increased from 4 to 6 seconds and should be cast-able on allies. Also, remove the shield requirement.
• Speaking of shields, I find that they don't provide as much of an advantage as they hinder you. I think they need a slight buff on how much they protect.
  • Trap Door-
    • Damage: Same
    • Protection: 10%->15%
  • Wood Door-
    • Damage: 24 ->25
    • Protection: 15%->20%
  • Iron Door-
    • Damage: 28->30
    • Protection: 20%->25%
• While Paladin is a good class, without layhands, there heals are lacking. It's not that absolution is bad per say, it's the fact that it's warm-up takes too long to warm-up. A simple reduction of the warm=up from 2.5sec->1.5sec would make it more user friendly.
• Since paladin is a hybrid class, it ends up having to split it's attributes very thin. To accommodate this I believe it should receive better scaling.
  • Make Taunt scale with Str-
    • Old: Flat 20%
    • New: 20% + 0.35% Str
  • Reckoning-
    • Old: 45 + 1.25 Str
    • New: 50: 1.65 Str
  • Holy Aura
    • Old: 10 + 0.3125 / 10 + 0.1562
    • New: 12 + 0.500 / 12 + 0.250
  • Holy Strike
    • Old: 30 + 0.875
    • New: 35 + 1.2
• As we have discussed before, paladin has a hard time leveling. to alleviate that:
  • New Skill: Bless Weapon (Lvl 1): The user blesses their sword with a holy energy. This harms evil creatures, increasing the users melee damage by 10 + 0.25 INT

Dreadknight-
Dreadknight faces many problems like paladin (Also a hybrid class). Players are asking for shadowstep back, but I believe we should stick to DK's nature and rather give it more CC to make up for it's lack of mobility.

• New Skill: Sickening Strike (LvL 15): The Dreadknight inflicts a tainted strike on their target dealing initial damage and a nausea-inducing DOT effect.

• • Damage: (40 + 1.2) + (8 + 0.3) Every 3 Seconds over 15 seconds.
  • Applies nausea for 5 seconds.
  • CD: 10 seconds
  • Mana Cost: 150
  • Stamina Cost: 400

• Dread Aura is in concept a very fun skill. but currently it's very underwhelming. Here's how I would change it.
  • Tick Rate: 3->2
  • Damage: 10 + 0.375->8 + 0.325
  • Mana Cost: 40
• Soul Leech is a very powerful skill, but it doesn't scale well. I think we should lower the base, but increase the scaling
  • Old: 14 + 0.0375
  • New: 12 + 0.150

Dragoon-
Dragoon still has the problem with jump. Yes it's a very fun skill and goons want it to stay as it is, but it creates a play style where it's impossible to get away from a goon, but if the tables are turned, impossible to catch up to a goon.

I suggest a compromise in terms of players "Enjoyment" of the skill and the actual gameplay balance. Outside of combat, goon's jump would work exactly like now, but in combat it will be different. In combat, it would work like Berserker's lunge, but could also be used on allies.

This would allow goon's to retain the positioning capabilities outside of combat, but make them stick to the fight while in combat. The ability to jump onto other allies would leave them some escape potential, but they would only be as fast as their farthest ally.

Lastly, my most favorite skill, "Tremor." Ok seriously though, I HATE this skill. It's basically an AOE force push, but with a lower cooldown. It's a seriously annoying skill that only allows goons to be even more untouchable. You get close to a goon? Tremor! Finally clime the tree the goon jumped in? Tremor! I'd much prefer if the skill was reworked (or scraped all together), but if it has to stay I would:

• Increase CD from 9->20+
• Reduce the knockback

This concludes "Balancing With Malik!" Tune in next episodes for Wonderful Wizards, Mystical Magicians, Powerful Pagans. That's RIGHT! Next episode is all about Mages...Magi.

 

[LightningCape]

I suggest a compromise in terms of players "Enjoyment" of the skill and the actual gameplay balance. Outside of combat, goon's jump would work exactly like now, but in combat it will be different. In combat, it would work like Berserker's lunge, but could also be use on allies.

Suggested for the 1,000,000th time now. Can we just do this already?
@malikdanab I'll be making a special guest appearance on the other episodes. I'm lacking in Warrior knowledge sadly.

 

[malikdanab]

Magi (Yes that's the correct term.)
Pyromancer-

Pyromancer is in a pretty good situation atm. It certainly has high damage (Both physical and spells) and high mobility. This is offset by it's low range and it's requirement to be in harms ways to deal it's damage.

The only thing I think needs a change is chaotic strength. I know was rushed and threw it together before the restart, but the skill ended up bad. The measly 15 str is nothing compared to the loss of 25 intellect. This is mainly due to strength being an inferior stat and the large difference between, the gain and loss. 15 strength only gives 5 extra melee damage. What I suggest:

• Increase strength gain from 15->20
• Decrease Intellect loss from 25->15

Another option that I would prefer is reworking the skill. Instead of decreasing intellect, make it instead decrease mana regeneration. This could synergize with dark blade where your melee is being used to keep up you mana. On the flip-side you could reintroduced "Chaotic Intellect" which would increase your Intellect and decrease you stamina regeneration.

Wizard-

With it's recent nerf wizard is much more in line with other classes. It still has a problems in terms of it's damage. And what I believe its causing this problem is fireball. You might not think much of it, but fireball is one of the most powerful skills in HC.
Base Damage: 95 + 50 Fire Tick
Scaling: 1.75
Cooldown: 6 Seconds

With 35 intellect that is 206 damage every 6 seconds. I know that wizard is meant to be a very burst class, but when you are able to do 1/4 of a classes hp on a 6 CD there is a problem.

How I would change it:
Base Damage: 80 + 50 Fire Tick
Scaling: 1.5
Cooldown: 8 Seconds

Beguiler-

Oh how this is hated. And for good reason. The class has decent some slight mobility, strong CC, and the single most overpowered skill in HC. I'm not exaggerating this point, Plague Bomb is the single strongest spell there is. Lets to do a quick rundown.

Base Damage: 125
Scaling: 2.875
Cooldown: 19 Seconds
Warm-Up: None

• With 30 INT it deals = 211 Damage.

Compare that to Pulse:
Base Damage: 60
Scaling: 2
Cooldown: 10
Warm-Up: 1.25

• With 30 INT it deals = 120 Damage.

Now, I could take the easy route and nerf the numbers and it would probably be fine, but I'm not. Beguiler is meant to a silly trickster mage. Currently it's just a generic burst caster. So what I'm going to do is propose a small rework.

• Replace Fireball: Orb of confusion
  • Base Damage: 80
  • Scaling: 1.5 INT
  • Cooldown: 8 seconds
  • Mana: 100
  • Special effect: Shoots a condensed ball of insanity. The target hit by the ball is spun around in confusion.
  • This would turn your character around in a circle (As if you used toss [where you turn quickly] twice)
    • This would keep some of their damage, but at the same time provide an more interesting mechanic. In general it would be a fun skill that would match it's play style.

• Remove Pulse:
• New Skill: Cloud Mind
  • You cloud the mind of your target, making them blind and stopping their mana regeneration
  • Cooldown: 25 seconds
  • Duration: 3 seconds blind and 5 seconds of preventing mana regeneration
• New Skill: Veil
  • You veil yourself in illusion magic making you hard to hit.
  • Cooldown: 20 seconds
  • Duration: 5 seconds
  • Mana: 175 mana
  • Effect: 50% chance for players to miss attacking you
• New Skill: Mind Rot (AOE)
  • You descend you targets into madness. Afflicted players view others as you during the effect.
  • Base Damage: 10 damage ever 2 seconds (Can be made into instant damage)
  • Scaling: 0.375 INT
  • Cooldown: 25 seconds
  • Duriation: 8 seconds
  • Range: 6 + 0.6 INT
• Nerfs:
  • Piggify: Add warm-up of 1 second
  • Mass Piggify: add a 1.5 second warm-up
• Rework: Plague bomb.
  • Add warm-up: 1 second
  • Reduce base damage: 120-> 85
  • Reduce scaling: 2.875-> 1.85
  • Those hit by plague bomb are inflicted with nausea for 3 + 0.1 seconds.
  • Increase CD: 10->12

The though process behind this is that beguiler needs to be more of a trickster. With a severe nerf to the damage, I added many more support skills. I'm not expecting all the suggested new skills to be liked, but I wanted to provide a selection that fit the class.

Necromancer-

I'm actually pretty fine with necromancer. It's DOTs skills provide good damage and has a decent amount of utility skills. The only change I would suggest is buff plague. Not only is the range so low that it rarely spreads, it's damage is pitiful.

• Base Damage: 13->15
• Scaling: 0.2
• Range: 3->6
• Cooldown: 12->15
• Mana: 140->175

That's today's episode of "Balancing With Malik!" Hopefully you had a MAGICAL experience. Tune in tomorrow where we take a look behind the back of the "Rogue"

 

[LightningCape]

Magi

Necromancer being the first class I mastered on haven I disagree that plague needs a buff. It;s fine the way it is imo. In group fights the spreading is godly imo. Only thing I'd change for necro is slightly increase web range.

Also with Beguiler I feel we're just patching up a used swimmer tube, it just needs new skills entirely. ( @malikdanab I like some of your ideas too)

 

[Sirdemonic3]

I agree that fireball is hella op and have always thought so. Necromancy is pretty okay atm

 

[malikdanab]

Rogues
Ninja-

Arguably one of the most powerful classes before it was nerfed, it's currently in good shape. This still doesn't mean it's where it should be. While it may be "Balanced" it's not fitting what I think is how the class should play. @LightningCape cape a smaller conversation on how to rework ninja, but I'll reiterate. Currently ninja isn't exactly as stealthy as it's play style should be.

How we would rework ninja:

• Remove Blitz ( Not only does it not fit ninja [I hate ninjutsu ] it's really loud aka not stealthy)
• Remove Blind (Will be explained next)
• Remove the free shurikens from backflip (Skill already has enough utility.)
• Rework Smoke Bomb: You through a smoke bomb at your feat, blinding nearby enemies.
  • Cooldown: 25 Seconds
  • Duration: 1.5 + 0.035 CHA
  • Stamina: 200
  • Range: 4 block radius
  • Regent: 1 gunpowder

• MAJOR REWORK: Fade-
  • Fade is now a toggle skill. When toggled it make the user invisible. When active, the users stamina will be drained and his movement will be slowed (Slow I) (This is to prevent them form just using it to get away/chase and to make it more appropriate as if they have to move more carefully) This would allow ninja to constantly go in and out of visability providing a new dynamic to the class.
  • Mana: 150 (So while a ninja CAN be invisible for a long time, they'll be punished for going out of stealth due to it's high start up cost)
  • Stamina: 65 Stamina per second ( With this, a ninja wouldn't be able to stealth and regain his stamina mid battle)
  • Cooldown: 5 seconds after you've become visible. You become visible when ever you: Take damage, deal damage, or use any skill (This includes fade which will simply reveal you.)
• Rework Eviscerate: (Renamed to Assassinate): Same everything, but requires sneak/stealth to use
• Rework Garrote: OK, IDK what happened here, but when I initially suggested garrote I suggested it as a stun. Now it's just an overall worst skill than kick: (Less damage, Less Silence, Longer Cooldown, Stealth/Sneak requirement.) How I wanted the skill is that when you are sneaking/stealthed you use a string in hand (Doesn't use the string just required in hand) and strangling the target doing damage and stunning them.

Ranger-

Ranger is in a pretty good spot atm. It has some problems, but I think a much easier to fix than something like beguiler:

• ExplosiveShot: Currently the skill is very powerful, but is a little to spammy and too easy to use.
• CD: Increase from 17->20
• Radius: Decrease from 4->3
• Add warm-up: 1 second

The next problem is AimedShot. While I think the skill is fine itself, the ability to shoot arrows while it warms-up shouldn't be allowed. To be honest I think the is a bug (Melee and other skills cancel it) and should be fixed.

Lastly I have a problem with Ranger's health. It's currently too high for a rogue. It's current 630 HP is tied with paladin making it relatively tanky. What I suggest:

• Reduce HP: 630-> 580

Runeblade-

This class is in a pretty good spot atm. It's certainly viable, but I hear some complaints about it from time to time. From what I can tell, it's not that the current skills are "Bad" it's the problem that the class just has a lack of skills. I've spoken to runeblades and many of them like a mana draining skill (To fit their anti-mage nature). I've come up with 2 concepts to fit this idea:

• LeechingRune: Upon damaging a target with your sword you apply a Rune of Leeching, which deals an additional (25 + 1 per intellect point) damage. The target also loses mana equal to the damage delt.
  • CD: 10
  • Mana : 120
  • Stamina: 40
• LeechingBlade (I'm bad with names ): Your blade drains (60 + 1.5 per wisdom point) mana from your target (within 4 blocks) and restores 75% of this damage to your mana
  • CD: 10
  • Mana: 0
  • Stamina: 350

Bard-

With the removal of many of it's warm-ups bard is doing pretty well. My only problem with it is how it's scaling works. Currently, almost all of it's skills scale off of Charisma. While this in it's self isn't bad, the fact that It ONLY scales of Charisma isn't right. What I propose is that each skill will scale off what it does, but keep Charisma in charge of duration and and range:

• Strength Scaling Songs:
  • WarSong
  • BattleSong
• Intellect Scaling Songs:
  • BoastfulBellow
  • VoidSong
• Wisdom Scaling Songs:
  • ManaSong
  • HealingChorus
• Charisma Scaling Songs:
  • MelodicBindings
  • Accelerando

Now this doesn't mean WarSong for instance only scales off of strength. The damage bonus will scaled with strength, but it's duriation/range will scale with Charisma. This Means that Str, Wis, and Int will affect the "potency" of the songs, but Charisma will affect the how long and from how far. This may intially look like a bard nerf, (It is in the sense that it will be able to do EVERYTHING really well) but if done correctly could allow Bard players to:

• Remain how they are, by spreading their attributes
• Specialize in a specific area by allocating in a certain stat.

This would work by increasing the scaling on songs dramatically, but since now they would have to spread their attribute even thinner it won't increase their effectiveness unless they choose to sacrifice another stat.
I don't think it's possible to go over it fully (With actually scaling numbers), but I would like the bring it up in this post extravaganza.

Finally, a small nerf to bards HP. Similar to Ranger, Bards HP of 650 is 20 more than a paladin. To fix this:

• Reduce HP: 650->600

That's today's episode of "Balancing With Malik!" Hopefully you have new insight of the under the table deals of the "Rogue." Tune in tomorrow where we take a look at "Holy Healers"

 

[LightningCape]

@malikdanab
My thoughts :3
Ninja-
I don't want the toggle smoke to have a slowness to it. We can make it more expensive if it needs to be but the while point of ninja is that they should be able to slip in, kill, and get out. That's what separates rogues and warriors *cough* Goon *cough* imo. I like the idea of punishment for being found but it would interfere too much with their own PvP. It would punish those who've played the class current by sneaking past enemies rather than punish bad ninjas who get caught.
Ranger-
Far too much dmg and health. If your aim is even decent their arrows are deadly. I have a build on test where (without going max agility) I can have over 1k HP, arrows do around 140 ish per shot (no armor), and can wear almost full chainmail armor (without the helmet). Either increase the CD for explosive shot or add a regent. Test says without a direct hit it does only 80? Yeah, it does a lot more than that and I didn't put a single point into intellect.
Runeblade-
Kind of your domain, cant really talk about it myself. heh
Bard-
This class however I'm quite familiar with. I disagree a little with your suggestions. I don't feel bard needs a drastic change in attribute scaling. Saying that the only skills Bard uses scale off of Charisma is wrong. it's not like ranger. A full agility ranger is viable (unfortunate but true) but if you try a full charisma bard you're going to find the skills will revolt against the class.

Spreading the attributes would make the class terrible to play. Bard is not an easy class to play. You can run out of stamina complete (literally) with 2 skills so you have to be watching everything in a team fight very carefully.

My ideas for changing bard would be:

• Reduce HP
  • As a master bard I can agree that we have way to much health. It needs to be lowered slightly
• Lower bow dmg
  • As a master bard it easily does over 130 dmg per shot. Kinda stupid

Overall change for rogues:
Lower stam cost on sneak!!!!!
It would encourage more sneaky play and not to mention the currently cost is just crazy. When I played bard sneak would take half of my stamina bar to activate. If I'm sneaking into a base I have to use sneak, wait for my stam to regen, then go in. It's rogues' bread&butter tbh it really shouldn't be this expensive.

That's it

Edit-
Also would like Ranger's track changed. Change the regent to exp or hp.

 

[malikdanab]

The problem I find with bard is there is little flexibility with the class. You Basically go CHA, END, WIS, and CON.( Not much different from a mage besides that you go CHA instead of INT). I never said Bards go ONLY Charisma, I said that it's their main stat (The fact that they add CON WIS and END are a given to all hybrids)

The concept behind my suggestion is that you can specialize (If you WANT), but at the same time still be able to spread and have about the same damage/heal/utility that you have now. People make the class out to be a hybrid where your stats are spread really thin, but in actuality there is no reason to go STR (Only Kick scales) and very little reason to go INT (Only Boastful Bellow scales).

 

[LightningCape]

The problem I find with bard is there is little flexibility with the class. You Basically go CHA, END, WIS, and CON.( Not much different from a mage besides that you go CHA instead of INT). I never said Bards go ONLY Charisma, I said that it's their main stat (The fact that they add CON WIS and END are a given to all hybrids)

The concept behind my suggestion is that you can specialize (If you WANT), but at the same time still be able to spread and have about the same damage/heal/utility that you have now. People make the class out to be a hybrid where your stats are spread really thin, but in actuality there is no reason to go STR (Only Kick scales) and very little reason to go INT (Only Boastful Bellow scales).

Ah if that's what you meant then let me reword my response. The concept of specializing a certain style of play with attributes might work for other classes but not bard. Bard is meant to be support and group buffs. It shouldn't have to choose which things it can and cannot support it should just be able to provide support period.

Spreading out attributes atm is the only way to make a good bard build for groups. Endurance and Int are not really optional for bard. The skills are quite expensive. All bard needs is dmg and hp reduction. Splitting it across attributes would just create another disciple. No one would know what to "specialize" in and the things they did would be weak.

 

[malikdanab]

Ah if that's what you meant then let me reword my response. The concept of specializing a certain style of play with attributes might work for other classes but not bard. Bard is meant to be support and group buffs. It shouldn't have to choose which things it can and cannot support it should just be able to provide support period.

Spreading out attributes atm is the only way to make a good bard build for groups. Endurance and Int are not really optional for bard. The skills are quite expensive. All bard needs is dmg and hp reduction. Splitting it across attributes would just create another disciple. No one would know what to "specialize" in and the things they did would be weak.

Like I've said, the difference between my suggesting and disciple is that scaling would be MUCH higher. So even adding 10 points into a stat would give a good damage boost. The concept is that IF and ONLY IF the Bard wishes to sacrifice in an area (Say Healing) then they could put less points into it and say boost damage by putting it into INT. This would still allow Bard to DO everything, but they would have the CHOICE to pick how much in what area.