Changes

[look_out]

Main problem for disciple is that you have to put your attributes in everything but charisma. Some of the scaling with attributes needs to be moved around so that instead of having to put your attributes in 5 categories make it like 3.

 

[malikdanab]

Main problem for disciple is that you have to put your attributes in everything but charisma. Some of the scaling with attributes needs to be moved around so that instead of having to put your attributes in 5 categories make it like 3.

Hence my suggestions

 

[Eldrylars]

Personally I would love to see the scaling chance slightly in favor of increasing the effects and then reorganizing the classes to split each class between 4 attributes

 

[Kainzo]

Personally I would love to see the scaling chance slightly in favor of increasing the effects and then reorganizing the classes to split each class between 4 attributes

I'm against having one attribute per class - to be honest. Either way, something like this would require a bit of code rework unless we make it very simple.

hybrids are a problem at the moment and we need to find a way for them to be more balanced. Pal/DK need a big buff.

 

[Kainzo]

Cleric used to be more fun because you had to contently work your heals and positioning, but with only two normal heals on long cooldowns it's worse then it ever, because now you cannot fight AND you cannot heal for large chunks of the time. Druid, BM and Disc all have things to do other then healing, which is fine and dandy. The Cleric does not need to do things other then healing, but should not have to stop, stand and wait to recast a healing spell. Of course there are the people who do not like to play support, healers, non killshot classes and they never will like it, but even the support, healers, non killshot players don't enjoy it because you cannot even heal half the time you are playing.

I'll agree with you here - what do you want instead?

 

[Eldrylars]

I'm against having one attribute per class - to be honest. Either way, something like this would require a bit of code rework unless we make it very simple.

hybrids are a problem at the moment and we need to find a way for them to be more balanced. Pal/DK need a big buff.

I would message Oudaiesty regarding Paladins for some first hand well educated information as he has played one the whole map and has a lot of good insight. If you message him I am sure he would give you some great information.

As far as my suggestion that each class should have their skills split between 4 attributes I mean more so a quick fix where, 25% of each skill uses a different attribute, so that not every skill is max damage. For instance, Ranger is Str, Int, Dex, Con/End (5 - to many) where as wizard is only Int, Con and End (3 - To few) or a Paladin Str, Con, End, Wisdom(4- Just right)

EDIT: Not saying here that Ranger needs love!(Except for Summon Wolf, which would be super sexy!) The current setup for Ranger allows the player to focus more ranged or Melee as with Kick and Maim the Ranger is able to output some damage in melee so it's viable, but it is splitting itself across 5 attributes which is a little much compared to Wizard/Beguilers 3
Across the board 4 stat splits would be pretty sexy!

 

[Eldrylars]

I'll agree with you here - what do you want instead?

I would put it up for debate and discussion, but I see two ways to make this happen.

1. Change Cleric back to a combat class
2. Change the Clerics heals back to their original values and give them back pray.

To expand,

1. Leaving the Clerics Heals as is and giving them a sword(or hoe) with a L65 damage of 48(paladin). This will give the Cleric a Con, End, Str, Wis build option like Paladin has, but instead of focusing on additional damage abilities he will have the long cooldown heavy heals.
2. Leaving the Clerics left click spam as is keeping him out of combat (making him the only pure healing class)and switching him back to the previous heal setup. Chant, Pray, Bandage (sorry don't have the new names off the top ) and reverting their case times, cooldowns and heal amounts. I don't remember the exact number but it was something close to this. With this setup you can continuously cycle your low power heal in between the larger ones for as long as you can manage with your mana pool.
   1. Bandage - Heals 125 - WarmUp .5 - CD 2.5
   2. Pray - Heals 225 - WarmUp 1.5 - CD 6
   3. Chant - Heals 325 - WarmUp 2.5 - CD 10

Cleric currently has an assortment of other heals it can use, but these heals are very situational and consume large amounts of mana so they cannot perform the function of the basic base healing set like the above skills.

For those terrified of numbers remember this is a theoretical post and if we are going to try to make a move one way or the other hopefully we will have time to test and balance the numbers, but I need a starting place

EDIT: With the above warm ups a Cleric could heal for about 650 using all three of his heals over 6 seconds, which a Ninja or Runeblade could undo in 2, so it seems reasonable. After the initial burst heal the Cleric will only be able to heal 350 over the next 6 seconds while Chant is on cooldown, so it would come in waves,Low, High, Low, High....OOM.

 

[malikdanab]

Firstly, clerics use maces (How else are you supposed to smite the heathens). In the case of the class, I wouldn't mind a battle cleric. I dislike clerics over reliance on heals (Yes I'm crazy.)

I like supports, but a class focused only on heals seems redundant/boring to me. Maybe I'll never like healers, but I feel like classes should be able to be fun on there own (Fine to be MORE fun in parties, but I don't think they should entirely rely on others.)

It would be nice if clerics could have more buffs (Skills not balance...well maybe balance ). I feel like that cleric should:

• Heal allies
• Cleanse allies
• Buff allies
• Occasionally turn the undead

Right now clerics mostly just heal.

 

[Eldrylars]

I like supports, but a class focused only on heals seems redundant/boring to me. Maybe I'll never like healers, but I feel like classes should be able to be fun on there own

Firstly, fun is relative! Just because you don't enjoy it does not mean no one does. That being said, most people don't, soooo does Herocraft need one class that most people would not enjoy but would cater perfecting to a few, or is that a waste of one of our classes?
Secondly, yes Cleric's do not do well on their own. I leveled mostly solo in the Nether(once I got Holy Aura) as I could kite hordes of pigzombies while Holy Aura and Holy Water did them in. It was slow, but much faster then a Ninja! Outside of the nether though Clerics are sad terrible fighters!

This is not the place for suggestions, but I am going to break the rule yet again, sorry Kainzo.

What about coding a skill for Cleric, which I bet would turn the tides for 100% and make it a beloved class. Here we go, hold on to your horses!

Level: 1
DivineSpirit –
Mana: 300 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 0 Warmup: .5 Reagent: None
Description: The Cleric gains (10 + .8 per strength point) melee damage until the spell is toggled a second time disabling it. While Divine spirit is in use the Clerics heals are reduced by (65 - .6 per Charisma point) percent.
Lore: The Cleric channels the divine spirit into himself draining his magical abilities while boosting his own strength.

Level: 1
Guidance –
Mana: 0 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 1 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description: All of the caster single target heals automatically cast on the targeted player until the spell is toggled off by casting it a second time.
Lore: The Cleric channels the guidance of the gods to focus his healing on his intended target.

This would allow the Cleric to play melee if he runs low on mana or would rather be a Tanky Healer Fighter instead of a Tanky Heavy Healer.

 

[malikdanab]

Side tracking, but paladin getting a "Bless Weapon" skill that increases damage against mobs would be nice. Guidance seems like a very good QOL addition for cleric.

 

[Kainzo]

I would put it up for debate and discussion, but I see two ways to make this happen.

1. Change Cleric back to a combat class
2. Change the Clerics heals back to their original values and give them back pray.

To expand,

1. Leaving the Clerics Heals as is and giving them a sword(or hoe) with a L65 damage of 48(paladin). This will give the Cleric a Con, End, Str, Wis build option like Paladin has, but instead of focusing on additional damage abilities he will have the long cooldown heavy heals.
2. Leaving the Clerics left click spam as is keeping him out of combat (making him the only pure healing class)and switching him back to the previous heal setup. Chant, Pray, Bandage (sorry don't have the new names off the top ) and reverting their case times, cooldowns and heal amounts. I don't remember the exact number but it was something close to this. With this setup you can continuously cycle your low power heal in between the larger ones for as long as you can manage with your mana pool.
   1. Bandage - Heals 125 - WarmUp .5 - CD 2.5
   2. Pray - Heals 225 - WarmUp 1.5 - CD 6
   3. Chant - Heals 325 - WarmUp 2.5 - CD 10

Cleric currently has an assortment of other heals it can use, but these heals are very situational and consume large amounts of mana so they cannot perform the function of the basic base healing set like the above skills.

For those terrified of numbers remember this is a theoretical post and if we are going to try to make a move one way or the other hopefully we will have time to test and balance the numbers, but I need a starting place

EDIT: With the above warm ups a Cleric could heal for about 650 using all three of his heals over 6 seconds, which a Ninja or Runeblade could undo in 2, so it seems reasonable. After the initial burst heal the Cleric will only be able to heal 350 over the next 6 seconds while Chant is on cooldown, so it would come in waves,Low, High, Low, High....OOM.

Please be more specific "original values" - means nothing to me. Also we don't want only "one" pure healing classes, each class should be able to stand on their own as their archetype function and if they cannot - we are doing something wrong.

 

[Kainzo]

Side tracking, but paladin getting a "Bless Weapon" skill that increases damage against mobs would be nice. Guidance seems like a very good QOL addition for cleric.

I think this is a good idea - would let them PVE faster/level quicker. Some of the tanky classes need this. @Coders

 

[Eldrylars]

Please be more specific "original values" - means nothing to me.

I listed the previous values in the post you quoted and then broke down some burst healing scenarios below that.

we don't want only "one" pure healing classes, each class should be able to stand on their own as their archetype function and if they cannot - we are doing something wrong.

Ok, so the target is a class that can have a chance 1v1 against at least some classes, can solo mobs without a dreadful amount of pain and is stiff mainly focused on healing and being tanky. I will come up with something that fits the bill, with what it already has.

 

[Eldrylars]

Side tracking, but paladin getting a "Bless Weapon" skill that increases damage against mobs would be nice. Guidance seems like a very good QOL addition for cleric.

I think this is a good idea - would let them PVE faster/level quicker. Some of the tanky classes need this. @Coders

For all classes we could have a passive something like this:

Level: 1
Creature Lore –
Mana: 0 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: PASSIVE Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description: You gain .5 damage per level to melee attacks against MOBs.
Lore: The more you hunt down the denizens of the land the easier it gets as you learn their weaknesses.

Would work great as a choose able skill once that comes into the game.

 

[LightningCape]

For all classes we could have a passive something like this:

Level: 1
Creature Lore –
Mana: 0 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: PASSIVE Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description: You gain .5 damage per level to melee attacks against MOBs.
Lore: The more you hunt down the denizens of the land the easier it gets as you learn their weaknesses.

Would work great as a choose able skill once that comes into the game.

Making grinding less painful = good

 

[Eldrylars]

• Leaving the Clerics Heals as is and giving them a sword(or hoe) with a L65 damage of 48(paladin). This will give the Cleric a Con, End, Str, Wis build option like Paladin has, but instead of focusing on additional damage abilities he will have the long cooldown heavy heals.

• Leaving the Clerics left click spam as is keeping him out of combat (making him the only pure healing class)and switching him back to the previous heal setup. Chant, Pray, Bandage (sorry don't have the new names off the top ) and reverting their case times, cooldowns and heal amounts. I don't remember the exact number but it was something close to this. With this setup you can continuously cycle your low power heal in between the larger ones for as long as you can manage with your mana pool.
  1. Bandage - Heals 125 - WarmUp .5 - CD 2.5
  2. Pray - Heals 225 - WarmUp 1.5 - CD 6
  3. Chant - Heals 325 - WarmUp 2.5 - CD 10
  Level: 1
  DivineSpirit –
  Mana: 300 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 0 Warmup: .5 Reagent: None
  Description: The Cleric gains (10 + .8 per strength point) melee damage until the spell is toggled a second time disabling it. While Divine spirit is in use the Clerics heals are reduced by (65 - .6 per Charisma point) percent.
  Lore: The Cleric channels the divine spirit into himself draining his magical abilities while boosting his own strength.
  
  Level: 1
  Guidance –
  Mana: 0 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 1 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
  Description: All of the caster single target heals automatically cast on the targeted player until the spell is toggled off by casting it a second time.
  Lore: The Cleric channels the guidance of the gods to focus his healing on his intended target.

Was any of this the direction you were thinking of going? Any input Kainzo?

 

[Eldrylars]

Base weapon damaged matched with Paladin
Diamond/Gold Hoe
29-48

Level: 1
Sacredword –
Mana: 90 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 3 Warmup: .5 Reagent: None
Description: You call on the Word, healing your target (within 8 blocks) for (75 + 2 per wisdom point) health. Takes 0.5 seconds to warm up.

Level: 1
Smite –
Mana: 120 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 12 Warmup: .5 Reagent: None
Description: You deal a (80 + 1.25 per intellect point) damage to your target and (120 + 1.25 per intellect point) damage to undead targets, within 6 blocks.

Level: 15
Pray –
Mana: 115 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 6 Warmup: 1.5 Reagent: None
Description: You call on the Word, healing your target (within 8 blocks) for (135 + 3 per wisdom point) health. Takes 1.5 seconds to warm up.

Level: 35
SacredTouch –
Mana: 140 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 10 Warmup: 1.5 Reagent: None
Description: Your touch heals your target (within 10 blocks) for (190 + 4.25 per wisdom point) health. Takes 3 seconds to warm up

This would allow a Cleric to get left click of 61 if he invests 35 Str which will lower his health, mana or armor drastically.There will be some things to balance but this will give the Cleric some non stop movement and the choice to go strength heavy if he wants to try to up his melee damage.The Cleric could burst up to 900 single target healing over 7 seconds, but would reduce his mana pool to 50% and then over the next 10 seconds the Cleric would be reduced to two direct heals totalling to 350. So over 10 seconds the Cleric could single target heal 1000HP while reducing his mana pool to 30% Leaving just enough for either 1 AOE heal, Full Heal or Invuln, which would take the Cleric out of mana for whatever time it takes to recover leaving just his enhanced left click damage.

 

[LightningCape]

Any word on when Garrote will be implemented?

 

[Kainzo]

Any word on when Garrote will be implemented?

Throwing it in now

 

[Eldrylars]

I know it's been discussed a lot, regarding Dragoons ability to control it's engagement fight and then fleeing usually easily once reason. There has been a lot of talk in ways to balance it's mobility but most number changes just fall short. The main idea I hear resonating the most is changing Jump into a targeted lunge similar to Berserkers.
Once again I know this is not the place for this type of suggestion, but number tweaking just does not seem like it will do it. Unless the design is to have that type of control, in which case it's as it should be.