Braavos Leaves the Legion of Oblivion

[Eldrylars]

Let us just say everything is being handled to benefit the players of Herocraft. There will always be at least a few that will be unhappy or angry with situations such as these but at this time there are over 100 pages of discussions with more then 50 players involved on the best way to handle this.

Until it has been closed I suppose you can speculate and make assumptions based off limited knowledge as it's your privilege to do so. I would recommend that you keep in mind until the situation has been resolved that the best you can do is make assumptions.

I am sure a very impressive wall of text will arise from this when it is over.

Until then,

~Eldry

 

[leftovers5]

I don't remember this ever happening in the past (a town wanting to leave an official kingdom). Even if it did happen, there are no clear rules stating it has to be this way, so surely Jonsoon has the right to choose aswell?

Plus, I thought (judging by what Left said above) the ''king'' of LO was fine with this?

This was before I was notified by staff that as king, I have sovereignty over all vessels.

Also, in my perspective, Jonsoon shouldn't have the sole right to do something that goes against the work of far over 100 players without support from his own town...

 

[MajorasMask]

This was before I was notified by staff that as king, I have sovereignty over all vessels.

May an admin please confirm this?

 

[leftovers5]

May an admin please confirm this?

Honestly, in the past we've allowed kings to appoint new mayors to towns when people went inactive/left.

 

[MajorasMask]

What Kainzo has said doesn't support what you've said he... said...

In the quote you've provided, Kainzo does not say that you, alone, have the final choice as to whether a town leave a kingdom or not. He is saying that you can appoint new mayors when people, within a town, go inactive or leave the town. Not that you have power over the entire town. That is what i'm wondering:

If a town wishes to leave an official kingdom (meaning, in its current state, it is on the kingdom regions); is it the town mayor who makes this decision, or the person who is leading the kingdom?

I'd like this to be written clearly somewhere in the rules, to prevent such confusion from happening again.

 

[themeoff]

Majoras in all honest jonsoon is going against all of his active townies wishes all over a few people he doesn't like. A few of the people that spent hours on helping build his town were kingdom members at the cost of nothing. We worked together all map towards this goal and after we achieve it without any attempt at communication he pulls this. Jon is a good guy but he's letting personal preference take and break what so many have strived to create. Ive honestly only seen a few people leave his town for the reason he is stating most are leaving now to ensure they remain with the kingdom they've helped create.

 

[Eldrylars]

Until this process is finished and 100% complete you can just go by your current knowledge.
Once this situation is handled you will have a case on file that shows the decisions of Kainzo and at that point I am sure it will be written into the rules.

As I stated already, until then it's just assumption.

Please be patient everyone and once this is finished everyone will see how it works.

 

[earthbinder1121]

Jonsoon should be able to leave LO. I don't know if LO made Braavo or it was recruited, but if you can create something you can also destroy it.

I feel like in LO some townships do think their better than others, so if someone finally wants to leave and get away from immaturity then I say go ahead.

 

[MultiHeartGold]

Honestly, if LO's trolls are enough problems for Braavos to make the town slowly die from inside, there would be no point in forcing Braavos to stay in LO.

 

[leftovers5]

Honestly, if LO's trolls are enough problems for Braavos to make the town slowly die from inside, there would be no point in forcing Braavos to stay in LO.

I don't think you understand the situation... Braavos was/is not dying, and Jonsoon acted upon his own agenda, and not those of his townmates.

 

[Eldrylars]

Jonsoon should be able to leave LO. I don't know if LO made Braavo or it was recruited, but if you can create something you can also destroy it.

I feel like in LO some townships do think their better than others, so if someone finally wants to leave and get away from immaturity then I say go ahead.

Unrelated to this situation but I would like to hear the communities thoughts,
The veterans and managers who helped to make Braavos what it is today do not want to leave the Kingdom, only the mayor and a one of the veterans. With that in mind, should the mayor of the town be allowed to alienate almost all of his own citizens by not doing whats best for them and focusing on whats best for him?
If your answer is yes then perhaps we should consider changing the township title from mayor to something more along the lines of dictator. As far as my understanding goes, a mayors job is to manage the city and provide as best he can for his citizens desires. In this case Braavos' mayor is providing as best he can for his desires. None of Braavos citizens or managers were informed and the response has been in the completely opposite direction of Braavos' mayors decision.

What are your thoughts? Should a township belong to it's mayor or it's citizens? As a mayor should you be able to to kick out all your citizens because you changed your mind about your city? If a mayor is damaging or ruining his city should all the other citizens that have put time and effort into the city have any say in what happens?

 

[MajorasMask]

-snip-

I've spoken to admins about this in the past, and they've told me that, as a mayor of a town, you have the right to do pretty much what you like with it. If you want to kick out citizens for no reason; you can do that. If you want to change all building plans; you can do that. It may make you look like a jerk, but it isn't against the rules. Citizens, no matter how much they help out, do not own a town.

Sure, if a town wants to run a more democratic system (with a council which makes the decisions rather than one person), then you can do that. But, for the time being, there are no rules against ''dictatorships'', which is why I feel that Jonsoon has the right, as a mayor of his town, to say ''Yes I want to leave the kingdom''. It doesn't matter how many people in his town want to remain in the kingdom, according to the rules, he is the one who decides..

But that is just what i've been told. It is silly that we can't get this sorted out once and for all by an admin...

 

[Diffuse]

Unrelated to this situation but I would like to hear the communities thoughts,
The veterans and managers who helped to make Braavos what it is today do not want to leave the Kingdom, only the mayor and a one of the veterans. With that in mind, should the mayor of the town be allowed to alienate almost all of his own citizens by not doing whats best for them and focusing on whats best for him?
If your answer is yes then perhaps we should consider changing the township title from mayor to something more along the lines of dictator. As far as my understanding goes, a mayors job is to manage the city and provide as best he can for his citizens desires. In this case Braavos' mayor is providing as best he can for his desires. None of Braavos citizens or managers were informed and the response has been in the completely opposite direction of Braavos' mayors decision.

What are your thoughts? Should a township belong to it's mayor or it's citizens? As a mayor should you be able to to kick out all your citizens because you changed your mind about your city? If a mayor is damaging or ruining his city should all the other citizens that have put time and effort into the city have any say in what happens?

From various situations in the past the mayor has always had all the power and the citizens none. Ideally you would want the citizens to have some power, but that is just not how it has ever been from what I've seen. Setting rules and precedents and simply ignoring them when situations like this arise sets a bad example.



Also I'm pretty sure there's a rule that states that pylons can be no more than 50 blocks away from a town so your region is illegal from what I've seen anyway.

 

[MajorasMask]

Also I'm pretty sure there's a rule that states that pylons can be no more than 50 blocks away from a town so your region is illegal from what I've seen anyway.

I believe pylons may have been changed to suit the new township region system better. DOn't quote me on this.

 

[leftovers5]

I've spoken to admins about this in the past, and they've told me that, as a mayor of a town, you have the right to do pretty much what you like with it. If you want to kick out citizens for no reason; you can do that. If you want to change all building plans; you can do that. It may make you look like a jerk, but it isn't against the rules. Citizens, no matter how much they help out, do not own a town.

Sure, if a town wants to run a more democratic system (with a council which makes the decisions rather than one person), then you can do that. But, for the time being, there are no rules against ''dictatorships'', which is why I feel that Jonsoon has the right, as a mayor of his town, to say ''Yes I want to leave the kingdom''. It doesn't matter how many people in his town want to remain in the kingdom, according to the rules, he is the one who decides..

But that is just what i've been told. It is silly that we can't get this sorted out once and for all by an admin...

You seem to have forgotten that towns in official kingdoms are municipalities owned by the king.

I'm really tempted to ask for this thread to be locked... It's still a very tender issue and people are straying far too off kilter in some of these points. Angyles - thoughts?

 

[Angyles]

I think keeping it open is fine for now, if the parties involved are discussing it maturely.

Keep it on point guys.

 

[MajorasMask]

You seem to have forgotten that towns in official kingdoms are municipalities owned by the king.

I have yet to see an admin confirm this. Did you not read what I said when you provided Kainzos quote? Maybe you missed it, I didn't quote your post...

 

[leftovers5]

I have yet to see an admin confirm this. Did you not read what I said when you provided Kainzos quote? Maybe you missed it, I didn't quote your post...

They always have been, and this conversation is getting redundant.

 

[turkaderk]

MajorasMask leftovers5 come on guys, will someone be the bigger man and just accept it to stop pointless bickering

 

[Symbolite]

While this exact situation has never come up in the past 4 maps I've played and there are no official Kingdom rules written anywhere... I do remember the loose rule back on Sanctum when we had many Kingdom's on a single map. That rule was exactly what's been discussed here. King has control over his/her towns. They can choose to kick a town out of the Kingdom or they can choose to pick a new Mayor if the current one isn't up to snuff.

Think of a Kingdom as one giant Town. The King is the Mayor, the other town Mayors are his/her SiC's. As a Mayor of a town can you demote your SiC and replace him/her? Yes. The same (in theory) should apply for a Kingdom.

Don't ask me to find this rule written somewhere on some 2 year old post because I would never find it, but I do remember this rule, so it must have been written somewhere at some point or otherwise I wouldn't recall it so vividly.

Also, just because this is what I remember doesn't make it morally right to strip mayorship away from jonsoon. being a town mayor myself for the last 4 maps I can't even begin to think how I'd react to a king forcing me out of my own town! my creation, my baby! lol