Suggestion Bloodmage

[pure_autism]

Ok, let's talk about Bloodmage. I think (and I am sure many of you will agree with me on this) that Bloodmage is in a bad spot right now. It basically went from being one of the most powerful classes on the server (Bastion) to being one least powerful classes (Haven). I can see a lot of potential in Bloodmage. I don't think a complete rework is required, as it can be rescued from the pit of not-that-great that it's trapped in right now. Here's a few changes I think would greatly improve Bloodmage if applied:

• Infusion- First off, I think you should lose HP then be healed. My reason for saying this is because it is not possible to reach your maximum HP with Infusion alone, you will always be 30 HP down. This is the only healing skill Bloodmage has that can be used outside of combat, which is a bit disappointing. An idea I thought of would be to make Infusion an instant-cast (cooldown could be increased.). It only heals about 70 HP (If it heals more than that, you probably have too much Wisdom). Or, instead of making it instant, make it heal more health.

• SiphonBlood- To say the least, I don't find this that great of a skill. The only reason I use it is to build up Blood Union. I think the damage that it does is fine where it's at. The main problem is the warm-up. Having to use CombustBlood and SiphonBlood again and again to build up Blood Union has taught me one thing: The enemy can simply wail on you while you are waiting for those pesky warm-ups. Making it an instant-cast spell would make fighting as a Bloodmage a lot better, because you wouldn't have to lose 1.5+ hearts every time you want to use a skill.

• BloodGift- This skill is pretty good where it's at, but I think it would be good if this skill could have a longer warm-up (maybe an extra .5 seconds) in exchange for the ability to use this skill on yourself. When casting on yourself, the heal could be reduced by 40%. Also, if self-healing were to be added to this, it would have to be renamed to something like Bloodcharge: You fill your target's blood with vigor, healing them for (amount) and increasing the potency of all healing by 5% for 15 seconds.

• Thickenblood- I like this skill, but seriously doubt its usefullness against any Healer/Caster class. I think something such as a slow (Slowness III?) would suffice. This could make it easier to catch up with that sorry sucker that decided to attack you and pull off a quick BoilBlood.

Another idea I have thought of would be to add a new skill to Bloodmage: Adrenaline

"You infuse your blood with adrenaline, granting 25 (can be lowered) Strength while losing 30 Intellect for 10 seconds."
Cooldown: 1 minute
Mana cost: 250 (I'm not the greatest with mana cost)
Stamina cost: 400
Warm-Up: 1.5 seconds/Instant
EDIT: This was supposed to be meant as a last-resort skill. It could also pair nicely with my version of ThickenBlood. For example, you're low on mana as well as health. You scan your opponent to find they are low on health as well. You then use the last of your mana to cast Adrenaline in order to score the hits needed to finish the enemy off. And sure enough, your opponent keels over and dies. Yay!

I have seen enough suggestions on this topic to know that a lot of people like to give negative ratings to people they dislike, regardless of them having a good suggestion or not. So if you are only here to give negative ratings without explaining your thoughts and opinions, leave right now. That sort of thing does not help the progression of class improvement AT ALL.

Now that I'm done with my rant, I'd like to know what you think! Do you like my ideas? If not, leave a message containing positive feedback or constructive criticism telling my why and what you think would make this class balanced. (This is my first suggestion, so go easy on me)



BABOMBA LOVES HIS PARENTHESIS <3

 

[DrearyDragon]

The issue is, removing the warm-ups on their two main damaging abilities will just make it a slightly different version of what it used to be.

But in it's current state it's a laughable class, it's going to need another rework.

Things like dark-bolt or bonespear with their own twists would be a good start. Also it should be chosen whether they should have more utility than damage, because ATM they have neither. They used to have a decent nuke a couple of dots and enough disable to keep them alive.

But even pretending like bloodmage is CLOSE to being a viable class is pretty absurd.
And I don't say that with spite towards the devs, it just can't be swept under the rug by people that didn't like bloodmage and don't care about it now.

also the strength thing is dum

 

[pure_autism]

The issue is, removing the warm-ups on their two main damaging abilities will just make it a slightly different version of what it used to be.

But in it's current state it's a laughable class, it's going to need another rework.

Things like dark-bolt or bonespear with their own twists would be a good start. Also it should be chosen whether they should have more utility than damage, because ATM they have neither. They used to have a decent nuke a couple of dots and enough disable to keep them alive.

But even pretending like bloodmage is CLOSE to being a viable class is pretty absurd.
And I don't say that with spite towards the devs, it just can't be swept under the rug by people that didn't like bloodmage and don't care about it now.

also the strength thing is dum

Adrenaline was meant to be a last-resort type of thing, not something you would stupidly use in the middle of a fight. I can agree about adding a skill like Bonespear. By the way, with 25 Strength, a Bloodmage does 44 damage, which is pretty good for a Healer class. Also, maybe next time you could give me reasons why my ideas are dumb. How about it gives the next person hit a short bleed? I don't think BM should be a utility class. It should have good damage with a few simple heals to aid it and nearby allies. But then again, utility vs damage could easily be determined by your Intellect compared to your Wisdom.

What would you think of ThickenBlood applying a slow? It could be used to catch up to your enemy and pop off a BoilBlood. I have added all of this to the original post, so you might want to reread the last few sections.

 

[mikehk]

Another idea I have thought of would be to add a new skill to Bloodmage: Adrenaline

"You infuse your blood with adrenaline, granting 25 (can be lowered) Strength while losing 30 Intellect for 10 seconds."
Cooldown: 1 minute
Mana cost: 250 (I'm not the greatest with mana cost)
Stamina cost: 400
Warm-Up: 1.5 seconds/Instant

I kind of like it if used correctly XD use it on another caster mid fight, such as right before a wizard does his amazing kombo skillz, and reduce his damage by like 100+

 

[Haxnn]

@PewPewPewLasers is sure to have an opinion on this. Unfortunately he is away and won't be back until tomorrow.

 

[malikdanab]

I feel like Bloodmage has an identity crisis. It feels like it's trying to be a mage, healer, and a support all at once and failing at it.
I could see one way to revamp Bloodmage (that would synergize well with the new attribute system) is to have many if not all of bloodmages skills have two effects. Depending on if you target an ally or an enemy.

Lets do a break down of some of my skill ideas:

• Combine Siphon Blood and Infusion: If you target an ally it gives your health to them / If you target an enemy it takes there health and heals you. You can't use this skill on yourself
• Combust Blood: Same as it is on enemies / If you target an ally it works the same but a heal instead.
• Thicken Blood: Same to enemies / Increases stamina regeneration of ally
• Boil Blood: Same to enemies / Heals allies
• Steal Essence: Steals positive effect from enemies / takes a negative effect from allies
• Blood Ritual: Heals allies % Hp / Hurts enemies for % Hp

This would give the class a better feel it's dual nature and work well with the attribute system. If They want to go full Healer, Mage, or Hybrid they can by allocation their attributes accordingly.

One thing I could see is the possibility of dividing Blood Union from offensive and Support Skills. Healing skills can stay with the blood union system where the more you heal an allies the more potent the skills become. For offensive skills you could have a "Hemorrhage" system where the more you attack the same target the more powerful your spells are.

My question is: What does @Kainzo want Blood Mage to be?

 

[northeaster345]

The issue is, removing the warm-ups on their two main damaging abilities will just make it a slightly different version of what it used to be.

But in it's current state it's a laughable class, it's going to need another rework.

Things like dark-bolt or bonespear with their own twists would be a good start. Also it should be chosen whether they should have more utility than damage, because ATM they have neither. They used to have a decent nuke a couple of dots and enough disable to keep them alive.

But even pretending like bloodmage is CLOSE to being a viable class is pretty absurd.
And I don't say that with spite towards the devs, it just can't be swept under the rug by people that didn't like bloodmage and don't care about it now.

also the strength thing is dum

I guess their damage got nerfed a decent amount and the extra half second on warmups definitely sucks, but if you went 35 int 30ish wisdom you'd have pretty decent damage, a lot of heals and good sustain. They were relatively better with long global cd because they had so few damage skills. They're still kind of hard to level, which reduces their popularity

I'm just not sure I see backbreaking nerfs to bloodmage that would turn it from one of the most broken classes to a completely unviable class. That said, I'm just looking at numbers and I would have to ask pew, who I'm sure would be happy to have bloodmage nerfed.

Basing off 35 Int, 30 wisdom (I think you have enough for that)
Thickenblood got a buff removes all stam rather than half,
steal_essence is only 1 buff, but still does about what it did
Reduced damage to siphonblood, and reduced heal
bloodgift heals for more, longer warmup
infusion lower warmup, slightly lower heals, costs less health
reduced damage on combustblood
blood ritual is stronger
awaken got a cd nerf, but how often were you reviving 2-3 people in a fight?

Given this is one particular build which seems to be more of a healing bm build, and not optimized at all.
You only used to have 1/30 mana regen per 5 sec, with this build it would be a little less than 1/20 per 5 seconds.

Considering most classes had their damage nerfed somewhat, I don't see that bloodmage got hit that much harder than most. For a comparison, I run a 35 int wizard build and I also have reduced magical damage compared to last map.
BM also got reduced health, which to be fair was really high before.

Can you just explain more what changes came in that made bloodmage unviable rather than unpopular?

 

[northeaster345]

Example BM build: str 0, con 19, int 37, wis 29, end 5, charisma -5, agi 1(extra pt)
997 HP vs 988 HP (many classes are even tankier this map though)
3.8 magic resist vs 0 magic resist
47 mana regen/1119 MP , (4.2% every 5sec) vs 6MP/183 MP (3.2 % every 5 sec)
30 carry weight vs 55 max(gold)

siphonblood: 95.5 dmg vs 95-111(lvl 65?) (assuming they got rid of the scaling by level, if they didn't, it's equivalent)
70% heal vs 110 % heal,
1.5 sec wu vs 1 s wu,
12.7 range vs 11 range (marginal)
infusion: 105 heal vs 110 heal
1 sec wu vs 1.5 sec warmup,
costs 30 health vs 35 health
combustblood: 110 dmg vs 135 dmg,
18 dot x 4 vs 20 dot x3 (read that as a nerf at first, but changed to every 2 sec for 8 sec vs every 2.5 sec over 7.5 sec)
1.5 sec wu vs 1 s wu,
12.7 range vs 14 blocks (marginal)
transfuse: 100 hp for 125 MP vs 90 HP for 30 mana (nerf?)
Bloodgift: 203 heal vs 200 heal
Thicken blood: Drains all stam vs 1/2 stam
2.934 s vs 2.5 s
costs 0 life vs 30 life
Boilblood: 114 dmg vs 120 dmg
21.7 x 6 dot every 2 sec for 12 sec vs 25 x 4 dot every 3 sec for 12 sec (thought this was a nerf at first, but wiki says more ticks now)
Btw that's 244 AOE dmg vs 220 before. Think about that for a second. Megabolt does 178 with 37 int....
Steal essence: 1 buff vs 3 buffs (marginal)
Blood ritual: 11.47% health vs 10% (45.9% health at max blood union vs 40% health)
Awaken: 2 min cd vs 12 sec cd (marginal)

Red = nerf
yellow = wash
green = buff

Overall, I'd say with this build you have a lot more mana regen and mana pool, the same HP pool, somewhat worse damage, but some really good heals. You look more like a healer than the ridiculous damage machine BM was last map (could outburst a wizard in a head to head, where wizard hits all his fireballs)

You have 30% more mana regen with this build, so transfuse won't be as necessary, wasn't sure how to rate transfuse with the new mana system, but it felt like a nerf. Hard to compare, but I'd say that things cost about 4-6x more mana than they did last map at least for bm. You have more than 6 times more mana than last map, so overall your mana should go farther.
The primary skills got nerfs with warmup increases
Siphon blood also got a decent damage reduction and heal reduction.

Biggest nerf was siphonblood and global cd reduction (funny how that's a relative nerf to bm).
Thicken blood got buffed as did bloodgift and boilblood, all of which are really good skills

I think people are experiencing only the nerfed siphonblood and not realizing that while overall that does affect bloodmage damage a good amount, it was a pretty broken class last map, and it is still pretty damn strong if not better, at least on paper.

@PewPewPewLasers

 

[pure_autism]

Example BM build: str 0, con 19, int 37, wis 29, end 5, charisma -5, agi 1(extra pt)
997 HP vs 988 HP (many classes are even tankier this map though)
3.8 magic resist vs 0 magic resist
47 mana regen/1119 MP , (4.2% every 5sec) vs 6MP/183 MP (3.2 % every 5 sec)
30 carry weight vs 55 max(gold)

siphonblood: 95.5 dmg vs 95-111(lvl 65?) (assuming they got rid of the scaling by level, if they didn't, it's equivalent)
70% heal vs 110 % heal,
1.5 sec wu vs 1 s wu,
12.7 range vs 11 range (marginal)
infusion: 105 heal vs 110 heal
1 sec wu vs 1.5 sec warmup,
costs 30 health vs 35 health
combustblood: 110 dmg vs 135 dmg,
18 dot x 4 vs 20 dot x3 (read that as a nerf at first, but changed to every 2 sec for 8 sec vs every 2.5 sec over 7.5 sec)
1.5 sec wu vs 1 s wu,
12.7 range vs 14 blocks (marginal)
transfuse: 100 hp for 125 MP vs 90 HP for 30 mana (nerf?)
Bloodgift: 203 heal vs 200 heal
Thicken blood: Drains all stam vs 1/2 stam
2.934 s vs 2.5 s
costs 0 life vs 30 life
Boilblood: 114 dmg vs 120 dmg
21.7 x 6 dot every 2 sec for 12 sec vs 25 x 4 dot every 3 sec for 12 sec (thought this was a nerf at first, but wiki says more ticks now)
Btw that's 244 AOE dmg vs 220 before. Think about that for a second. Megabolt does 178 with 37 int....
Steal essence: 1 buff vs 3 buffs (marginal)
Blood ritual: 11.47% health vs 10% (45.9% health at max blood union vs 40% health)
Awaken: 2 min cd vs 12 sec cd (marginal)

Red = nerf
yellow = wash
green = buff

Overall, I'd say with this build you have a lot more mana regen and mana pool, the same HP pool, somewhat worse damage, but some really good heals. You look more like a healer than the ridiculous damage machine BM was last map (could outburst a wizard in a head to head, where wizard hits all his fireballs)

You have 30% more mana regen with this build, so transfuse won't be as necessary, wasn't sure how to rate transfuse with the new mana system, but it felt like a nerf. Hard to compare, but I'd say that things cost about 4-6x more mana than they did last map at least for bm. You have more than 6 times more mana than last map, so overall your mana should go farther.
The primary skills got nerfs with warmup increases
Siphon blood also got a decent damage reduction and heal reduction.

Biggest nerf was siphonblood and global cd reduction (funny how that's a relative nerf to bm).
Thicken blood got buffed as did bloodgift and boilblood, all of which are really good skills

I think people are experiencing only the nerfed siphonblood and not realizing that while overall that does affect bloodmage damage a good amount, it was a pretty broken class last map, and it is still pretty damn strong if not better, at least on paper.

@PewPewPewLasers

I can understand how Bloodmage looks pretty good on paper. Sadly, that is not the case. Bloodmage is horrifically easy to kill. When fighting a class with any sort of range, the warm-up on SiphonBlood makes it really hard to do much to your opponent while they're nuking the crap out of you. Trying to juke a Ranger out does not end well... When fighting, the warm-ups on SiphonBlood and CombustBlood allow any class to run up to you and smack you around. Just so you can do, what, 100 damage? There a lot of skills pertaining to other classes that do that much damage or even more and can be casted instantly.

 

[PewPewPewLasers]

I've just returned from my trip, will edit this post with some thoughts in the morning (reserved).

 

[Solidze]

Buff the damage on SiphonBlood from 40 +(1.5 int) to +(1.75-80 int) and keep the warmup or keep the damage as it is, but make the ability an instant cast. This is all we need.

 

[Solidze]

Buff the damage on SiphonBlood from 40 +(1.5 int) to +(1.75-80 int) and keep the warmup or keep the damage as it is, but make the ability an instant cast. This is all we need.

I would also like to add that for the warm ups required for these spells, we sure in hell ain't getting much benefit from them unless we use BoilBlood. The damage output on the spells are extremely low, by time you get SiphonBlood off....which does what, like 90 damage or less? You've already taken 6 times that in damage, or more. So here is what I suggest.

Base damage on spells need to rise up, or the ratio if the warm ups are to stay. Here are some examples:

Current
SiphonBlood- You siphon blood from your target within (9 + 0.1 per intellect point) blocks, dealing (40 + 1.5 per intellect point) dark damage and restoring your health for 70% of the damage dealt. Life stolen is increased by 6% per level of BloodUnion. Increases BloodUnion by 1. Takes 1.5 seconds to warm up.

New
SiphonBlood- You siphon blood from your target within (9 + 0.1 per intellect point) blocks, dealing (85 + 1.5 per intellect point) dark damage and restoring your health for 70% of the damage dealt. Life stolen is increased by 6% per level of BloodUnion. Increases BloodUnion by 1. Takes 1.5 seconds to warm up.

Alternative
SiphonBlood- You siphon blood from your target within (9 + 0.1 per intellect point) blocks, dealing (60 + 1.5 per intellect point) dark damage and restoring your health for 70% of the damage dealt. Life stolen is increased by 6% per level of BloodUnion. Increases BloodUnion by 1. Takes 1.5 seconds to warm up.

Current
CombustBlood- You boil the blood of your target within (9 + 0.1 per intellect point) blocks, dealing (50 + 1.625 per intellect point) dark damage. If you have BloodUnion 3 or greater, the target will bleed, taking an additional (8.75 + 0.25 per intellect point) damage every 2 seconds over 8 seconds. Increases BloodUnion by 1. Takes 1.5 seconds to warm up.

New
CombustBlood- You boil the blood of your target within (9 + 0.1 per intellect point) blocks, dealing (65 + 1.625 per intellect point) dark damage. If you have BloodUnion 3 or greater, the target will bleed, taking an additional (20 + 0.25 per intellect point) damage every 2 seconds over 8 seconds. Increases BloodUnion by 1. Takes 1.5 seconds to warm up.

Alternative
CombustBlood- You boil the blood of your target within (9 + 0.1 per intellect point) blocks, dealing (65 + 1.625 per intellect point) dark damage. If you have BloodUnion 3 or greater, the target will bleed, taking an additional (20 + 0.25 per intellect point) damage every 2 seconds over 8 seconds. The bleeding also causes the target to slow down by 10% for the duration to prevent a massive bleed out.. Increases BloodUnion by 1. Takes 1.5 seconds to warm up.

Another suggestion, rework the BloodUnion effects on some spells/add new. Example:

Current
SiphonBlood- You siphon blood from your target within (9 + 0.1 per intellect point) blocks, dealing (40 + 1.5 per intellect point) dark damage and restoring your health for 70% of the damage dealt. Life stolen is increased by 6% per level of BloodUnion. Increases BloodUnion by 1. Takes 1.5 seconds to warm up.

New
SiphonBlood- You siphon blood from your target within (9 + 0.1 per intellect point) blocks, dealing (40 + 1.5 per intellect point) dark damage and restoring your health for 70% of the damage dealt. Life stolen and Damage is increased by 5% per level of BloodUnion. Increases BloodUnion by 1. Takes 1.5 seconds to warm up.

Current
StealEssence- You steal a beneficial effect from your target (within 15 blocks).

New
StealEssence- You steal a beneficial effect from your target (within 15 blocks). If you have BloodUnion 4, you will steal up to 3 beneficial effects from targets around you. Reduces BloodUnion by 2.


Or possibly a new spell?

EmpoweredBlood (110 MP, 1min CD)- The blood gain from your enemies empowers you. You deal 5% more damage for every BloodUnion spent for 18secs. Reduces BloodUnion based on the amount spent.

Either way, the class really needs to be reviewed and tweeked. I prefer the easy route, just making SiphonBlood instant cast and see if that changes it.

 

[jasonc1111]

I agree, tweaking it would make it much more viable/

 

[Dakinara]

bloodmage would probably feel more balanced if certain "popular" classes that kind of poop all over them were not so "popular"

 

[pure_autism]

/skill Awaken

See what I did there?

 

[PewPewPewLasers]

Oof, I guess I was supposed to reply to this thread a month ago... So I guess I will open up with a little story.

So, Bloodmage. This class has had its ups and downs throughout its existence on Herocraft. At the end of Zeal it was good, in Dragonguarde it wasn't fantastic, and for majority of Bastion Bloodmage wasn't a very good class. But then, it got a rework. The class gained tremendous popularity. Everyone was switching to this class because it looked awesome with the new bloodunion playstyle. The class got nerfed, and people switched away. At this time, I was inactive.

When I came back to Herocraft, my levels were reset due to my own stupidity, and I needed to find a new class. Originally, I thought to go Disciple, but after doing a /hero who bloodmage, and seeing no Bloodmages on, I decided I would try it out. Within a week and a half, I had the class mastered. This class was overpowered. The damage output of this class mixed with the healing was enough to kill any other class, especially the other overpowered class at the time, Dragoon. As a Bloodmage, the key was kiting. The class had no mobility, so if you were good at kiting, for the most part you would win your fights.

Come tournament time, I was a Bloodmage for my team. Bloodmage had always been an awkward pick for teamfights; constantly being discluded because it didn't bring anything to a fight. Bloodmage was great at the time of the tournament. With LO's team comp and strategy, we ended up taking the [Champion] titles for ourselves.

Shortly after this tournament, the map wipe comes. Originally, I had thought of trying out Bloodmage for this wipe. I didn't though. Ending up with Bard, I noticed a severe lack of Bloodmages. I had tried out every class on test before making my choice (which I find kind of amusing, because Bard was only half a class during that period) and Bloodmage had received a decent nerf. It was still a playable class, but it took a lot longer to kill others.

And now, here we are. People saying that Bloodmage is "not playable." Personally, I have split opinions on this topic. Right now, Bloodmage is in an awkward position; you need to put so many points into intellect to even be doing decent damage, and with that you don't heal enough, have enough armour, or have quite enough HP.

On the flip side, I agree with a lot of the things @northeaster345 said. The class right now isn't as much of a damage machine, and with his build it still works as a fairly viable class.

Personally, I would love to see Bloodmage have a more interesting playstyle. I may use @Eldrylars ' format to suggest something for this. In my eyes, I see Bloodmage as a support/damage class, healing allies with their own blood, or their enemies blood.

 

[JupiterRome]

Just Went Beguiler today and Masterd it XD Thinking about bloodmage, is it that Broken atm?