Suggestion Bloodmage Suggestion

[Dsawemd]

I never suggested a solo bloodmage. You misunderstood. You can't duo when you are squishy, can't get hits off, or heal yourself. The chances of the bloodmage being focused in a fight is very strong. If you want, sit with your opinions of Bloodmage and leave it as it is and label it as

Bloodmage: Difficulty: Very Difficult

I understand you are not suggesting a more solo oriented BM, and even if you were that would be fine for Suggestions.

BloodMage:
Rotation- Complex
Skill Cap Difficulty - High (Too High? That's what this thread is about)
Works Best With - Cleric, or other HP managers

seriously, FullHeal + Bloodbond is a strong combo in 5v5 approx....so is Clarity and Enlightenment for both classes...

 

[Dsawemd]

1 idea could be add like 1 more dps skill and like 3 more heals? ( @Dsawemd yeah cuz I mean a healer/mage should have just above average skills like rlly?) make heals take mana make damage skills take health

The vagueness of this post makes it very difficult to get anything useful out of it, beyond your valid point that Non-Basic Attack classes generally rely on more skills in their rotation (can be accomplished with more skills or quick cooldowns).

If you take a bit more time to express yourself, your posts will become useful.

 

[Dwarfers]

The vagueness of this post makes it very difficult to get anything useful out of it, beyond your valid point that Non-Basic Attack classes generally rely on more skills in their rotation (can be accomplished with more skills or quick cooldowns).

If you take a bit more time to express yourself, your posts will become useful.

I think the skills are good but just a few need to be adjusted mana cost wise, or range, or cooldown, or warmup. Mainly Thickenblood and Infusion.

 

[Dsawemd]

I think the skills are good but just a few need to be adjusted mana cost wise, or range, or cooldown. Mainly Thickenblood and Infusion.

Since I personally really like the Blood Union Mechanic, I will go ahead and suggest the following change to Infusion, if we decide it needs one. I feel that the Blood Union Mechanic should be more rewarding to manage, and since it is the bread and butter mechanic, that should allow BM to feel smoother and less punished by inefficient rotations.

New Infusion: Increases by 5% per BU (up from 3% per BU)

 

[Dsawemd]

1. Transfuse is supposed to be the bread and butter of his whole design, and also the promoting risk factor. The Bloodmage uses his Blood for all actions. How does he use his Blood? He Transfuses it into Mana. Simple, no? However the old Bloodmage did not work this way. The old Bloodmage spent his HP directly within the spell. When I made the design shift to rely on Transfuse for the concept, his Mana costs went up, and his health costs went down (or were removed entirely).

With his current design, a Bloodmage should be forced to Transfuse very frequently during EVERY fight to maintain this idea.



----
2. So what about BloodUnion? Well, BloodUnion was really only something that was added to make the "Blood Cycle" more engaging. Doing something like forcing Transfuse to require BloodUnion, is somewhat silly for this reason. Such a change would halt the cycle, it introduces a kink, and it also slows down the progress of "Unleashing your BloodUnion". Which is a relatively large nerf.

1. No one uses Transfuse, especially not as the Bread and Butter.
EDIT: People use transfuse a lot, but tend to feel less confidant using it in World PvP where periods of damage are less preictable than say, an Arena fight or PvE. Edit2: Look how quickly the community BMs corrected me, they clearly are excited by the prospect of a BM change.
I have always felt that the skill is really strong with the playstyle, but most players end up ignoring it and trying to burst opponents down before they get killed because they are so squishy.

UPDATED Transfuse: The BloodMage loses 100 HP for 150 mana, and adds 1 BU. Still instant cast, needs a cooldown, 5-7 seconds?

2. Blood Union is what makes the "Blood Cycle". You may not have intended it, but the fact that BU is required to add extra damage or healing means that the class must utilize up to a 5 point skill combo in their fastest efficient rotation. This really emphasizes the amount of BU you have when you use skills.

edit: Also, all changes obviously need further balancing once they have been implemented, just remind people succinctly and it won't waste 'paper'.

 

[JupiterRome]

I understand you are not suggesting a more solo oriented BM, and even if you were that would be fine for Suggestions.

BloodMage:
Rotation- Complex
Skill Cap Difficulty - High (Too High? That's what this thread is about)
Works Best With - Cleric, or other HP managers

seriously, FullHeal + Bloodbond is a strong combo in 5v5 approx....so is Clarity and Enlightenment for both classes...

Agree'd but tbh if you wanna go bloodmage most bms will probbobly like necro more cuz it has dots an hp steal and instant damage + tbh necro vs bloodmage support wise for healer is very close and necro is probs better

 

[jasonc1111]

I was a BM for quite a while, not really hard to play, also it works very well with manasong. Although you can't get BloodUnion up vs some classes, and if you do your going to have to bloodritual to keep yourself alive. An Infusion change isn't going to do much. With so many warmups you just get constantly beat into. The cycle is Siphonblood Combustblood Siphonblood (Boilblood optional here) usally I combustblood again and if i'm good on health I boilblood (Double bleed FTW). Repeat and throw in some Bloodritual's depending on your situation. Throw Transfusion in there ( I actually used this skill alot).

 

[JupiterRome]

1. No one uses Transfuse, especially not as the Bread and Butter. I have always felt that the skill is really strong with the playstyle, but most players end up ignoring it and trying to burst opponents down before they get killed because they are so squishy.

UPDATED Transfuse: The BloodMage loses 100 HP for 150 mana, and adds 1 BU. Needs a cooldown, 5-7 seconds?

2. Blood Union is what makes the "Blood Cycle". You may not have intended it, but the fact that BU is required to add extra damage or healing means that the class must utilize up to a 5 point skill combo in their fastest efficient rotation. This really emphasizes the amount of BU you have when you use skills.

tbh I agree with that updated but I use transfuse siphonblood as the bread and butter for my build..... bm has not very many skills so I use most of them though

 

[Dwarfers]

Yeah, just to be clear, I was suggesting multiple things that could help bloodmage in multiple ways as in not suggesting every single thing suggested should happen.

 

[jasonc1111]

I have to agree with this most everything about bloodbond. If you don't have another healer or a support it's just too mana consuming. I do turn it on for the quick boilblood though then I turn it off.

 

[JupiterRome]

I have to agree with this most everything about bloodbond. If you don't have another healer or a support it's just too mana consuming. I do turn it on for the quick boilblood though then I turn it off.

same its pretty ok heals.... bm necro combo is rlly nice too

 

[Dwarfers]

So, been testing around more.

I had BloodUnion 4, Enlightenment(50 Intellect total, 36 Wisdom total) and level 65.

The damage of Siphonblood with all that is only 115 damage. The 6% scale lifesteal with bloodunion 4 should heal me 94% of that damage which is 108.1hp.
Costs: 100 mana
Warm-up: 1.5 seconds
Cooldown: 5 seconds
Range: 15 blocks

CombustBlood with same stats - Does 193 damage total(includes the after bleed).
Costs: 140 mana
Warm-up: 1.5 seconds
Cooldown: 6 seconds
Range: 15 blocks

Infusion - would it be fair to compare this skill to Soothe? Disciple Chakra has higher base heal, is an aoe, and removes effects. Cooldown is also a bit bad.
Costs: 65 mana and 30hp
Warm-up: 1 second
Cooldown: 8 seconds
Range: 8 blocks

BoilBlood -Does 256 damage total(includes boiling effect after use) with the same stats at the top and requires BloodUnion 3 or higher.
Costs: 80 mana and reduces BloodUnion by 3.
Warm-up: Instant
Cooldown: 10 seconds
Range: 5 blocks

For an offensive healer the damage is not that good and heals aren't "good". Another suggestion: Raise how long BloodUnion stays up. Scaling isn't that great either...


Mana costs are based on wiki.

 

[Dwarfers]

No responses to my post with stats?

 

[Dwarfers]

@Dsawemd Can we try the BM changes you posted about earlier with Infusion and Thickenblood on test and see how that works out?

 

[Dsawemd]

@Dsawemd Can we try the BM changes you posted about earlier with Infusion and Thickenblood on test and see how that works out?

Can't tag me to make server changes, you would need to ask KAINZO. edit: also, I am not sure that my ideas were well received, see Delf's response above.

We recently got many new Bloodmages onto Live (I suspect the drop rates of Relics may have something to do with that) and the data pool for the class should be increasing. Having a larger data set of qualitative experiences from the new BMs should be particulay useful in developing the class because as I previously noted, BM has a high skill cap and a high skill floor (the class is incredibly strong in the hands of a capable PvPer but very frustrating in the hands of someone who is.... "below the skill floor for the class").

@Dwarfers, I noticed you were level 30 still today. BM uses HP as a reagent which scales with leveling, meaning that a low level BM is even MORE lame than a low level anything else.

Try either leveling the class and playing on Live, or if you don't have the time, setting up scenarios on Test server of Gold Tier (top tier) PvP party with allies and enemies.
However, the best way to begin will always be a real evaluation of a class is to play the maxed level on live, THEN go to test, not the other way around.

 

[Dwarfers]

Don't tag me, tag KAINZO. edit: also, I am not sure that my ideas were well received, see Delf's response above.

We recently got many new Bloodmages onto Live (I suspect the drop rates of Relics may have something to do with that) and the data pool for the class should be increasing. Having a larger data set of qualitative experiences from the new BMs should be particulay useful in developing the class because as I previously noted, BM has a high skill cap and a high skill floor (the class is incredibly strong in the hands of a capable PvPer but very frustrating in the hands of someone who is.... "below the skill floor for the class").

@Dwarfers, I noticed you were level 30 still today. BM uses HP as a reagent which scales with leveling, meaning that a low level BM is even MORE lame than a low level anything else.

Try either leveling the class and playing on Live, or if you don't have the time, setting up scenarios on Test server of Gold Tier (top tier) PvP party with allies and enemies.
However, the best way to begin will always be a real evaluation of a class is to play the maxed level on live, THEN go to test, not the other way around.

Yeah, I've been using test server for data and stuff. I have come to the conclusion already that BM is probably alright aside from Infusion, Thickenblood, Transfuse being dumb in terms of cost or cooldown.

Transfuse - 100 HP for 125 Mana | DarkRitual - 100 HP for 200 Mana

Not sure if those skills were made based on the mana base for bm/necro

@Kainzo

 

[Avoir]

Yeah, I've been using test server for data and stuff. I have come to the conclusion already that BM is probably alright aside from Infusion, Thickenblood, Transfuse being dumb in terms of cost or cooldown.

Transfuse - 100 HP for 125 Mana | DarkRitual - 100 HP for 200 Mana

Not sure if those skills were made based on the mana base for bm/necro

@Kainzo

Dude BM is super strong atm...

 

[Dwarfers]

Dude BM is super strong atm...

I have noticed on live it might be stronger than it is on test, but I'll see for sure when I master on live. When you say it is "strong", I assume you mean damage which I think is okay. My main points were the mana costs and stuff which don't make much sense to me compared to other classes who have similar skills and such.

 

[Avoir]

W

I have noticed on live it might be stronger than it is on test, but I'll see for sure when I master on live. When you say it is "strong", I assume you mean damage which I think is okay. My main points were the mana costs and stuff which don't make much sense to me compared to other classes who have similar skills and such.

No when I say strong I mean op, it can easily 2vs1 any class on test, don't know if that's intended or not but it's a little stupid.

 

[LordZelkova]

Transfuse - 100 HP for 125 Mana | DarkRitual - 100 HP for 200 Mana

Remember, BM is all about manipulating its HP through a fight. I brought a similar point earlier in this thread (Even have an entire breakdown of Dark Ritual somewhere on here), and it was shot down by concrete reasoning.

Lets look at Necro's Mana skill:

Dark Ritual: You sacrifice 100 health to gain 200 mana.
Costs: 100 Hp (Most of which can be restored via Drainsoul and leave Mana for another skill)

Compare that to BM's Mana skill:
Tansfuse: You convert 100 of your health to 125 mana.
Cost: 100 HP

Notice the reward on Transfuse, which is essentially the same as DR, has a lower return.
And say you attempt to heal this off with Infusion, which will take 65 of the 125 mana you just restored, leaving you with a measly 60 Mana gained, you regain 35 + 1.375/Wis (Due to a 30hp cost) and then that is decreased by the self heal % drop
(If it's not someone let me know, the wikki doesn't state it is but from what I remember all heals do less when self targeting)

Obviously transfuse has a reason for be a crappier version or DR, but what is that?
At least give BM the 200 mana like DR, it would more sense that class that is used to using it's own life force would be able to get a good return

1. The idea is that Health is less valuable to a Bloodmage since they can manipulate it. Health sacrificed by a necro, who's main defense is kiting or damage mitigation, is harder to recover. That is the logic behind it.

2. Infusion also increases by 3% per BU.

3. It will never have 100 health for 200 mana, unless resource costs are also increased etc, see below. What is more likely to happen is something like 150 hp for 200 mana or 100 Hp for 150 mana. This change could be something that is needed to make the skill Transfuse a reliable part of the rotation, as it has been underused in recent implementations.

New Transfuse: Bloodmage sacrifices 100 hp to gain 200 mana, lowers Blood Union by 1 (requires 1 Blood Union to use).