Suggestion Bard

[monkeyfatzer]

Before you start reading my post, I would like to say that I have mastered bard on live and have been really dissapointed with the class overall.

Bard should be the rogue support that can come out of nowhere with his party and help them win the fight by using healing and crowd control to disable the enemies. I can do that as a bard but in small doses. When I run in to a fight I use voidsong and another skill and all of my stamina is gone. Basically what I am saying is that bard should be more heavy on mana than stamina.

Here's what I think (In order from what level you get them at).

Sneak: Keep the same, skill is fine as it is.

Envenom: Takes 150 stamina and 75 mana.

Warsong: 100-135 mana, remove the warmup, increase the cooldown to 10-12 seconds.

Melodic Binding: 200 mana, 150 stamina, up the slow by 1-2.

Accelerando: Keep it the same.

Kick: Keep it the same.

Mana Song: Alright, this skill is what I wanted to express on the most, this might be a bad or good idea but i'm going to express my opinion. 35 Mana cost, Stamina cost is 300-350, cooldown increased to 16 seconds. Your party within a 12 block radius gain 250 mana every time you use it, remove the warmup, make it an active instead of a passive skill.

Song of Respiration: Keep it the same.

Boastful Bellow: 200 mana, 150 stamina, Keep it the same, make it 5 blocks within the person instead of 3.

Battlesong: Remove the stamina cost, up the mana cost to 120.

Drop The Base: Keep it the same.

Healing Chorus: In my opinion healing chorus is a useless spell due to its mana/stamina cost, I think it should be reverted to the old healing chorus and remove 1 crowd control effect and heal 75 health. Up the mana cost to 100, lower stamina cost to 200. Make the cooldown 12 seconds like chakra.

Voidsong: 150 mana, 300 stamina.

This is a rough draft and could change from the communities feedback, I would like @PewPewPewLasers and all the other bards to put their input. I realise some people will think these numbers might be crazy and would like to limit the flaming to as least as possible.

 

[PewPewPewLasers]

Before you start reading my post, I would like to say that I have mastered bard on live and have been really dissapointed with the class overall.

Bard should be the rogue support that can come out of nowhere with his party and help them win the fight by using healing and crowd control to disable the enemies. I can do that as a bard but in small doses. When I run in to a fight I use voidsong and another skill and all of my stamina is gone. Basically what I am saying is that bard should be more heavy on mana than stamina.

Here's what I think (In order from what level you get them at).

Sneak: Keep the same, skill is fine as it is.

Envenom: Takes 150 stamina and 75 mana.

Warsong: 100-135 mana, remove the warmup, increase the cooldown to 10-12 seconds.

Melodic Binding: 200 mana, 150 stamina, up the slow by 1-2.

Accelerando: Keep it the same.

Kick: Keep it the same.

Mana Song: Alright, this skill is what I wanted to express on the most, this might be a bad or good idea but i'm going to express my opinion. 35 Mana cost, Stamina cost is 300-350, cooldown increased to 16 seconds. Your party within a 12 block radius gain 250 mana every time you use it, remove the warmup, make it an active instead of a passive skill.

Song of Respiration: Keep it the same.

Boastful Bellow: 200 mana, 150 stamina, Keep it the same, make it 5 blocks within the person instead of 3.

Battlesong: Remove the stamina cost, up the mana cost to 120.

Drop The Base: Keep it the same.

Healing Chorus: In my opinion healing chorus is a useless spell due to its mana/stamina cost, I think it should be reverted to the old healing chorus and remove 1 crowd control effect and heal 75 health. Up the mana cost to 100, lower stamina cost to 200. Make the cooldown 12 seconds like chakra.

Voidsong: 150 mana, 300 stamina.

This is a rough draft and could change from the communities feedback, I would like @PewPewPewLasers and all the other bards to put their input. I realise some people will think these numbers might be crazy and would like to limit the flaming to as least as possible.

To be honest, I say just axe envenom. I love the healingchorus and mana song changes. I'll edit this post later and go more in depth.

 

[Glacial_Reign]

To be honest, I say just axe envenom. I love the healingcborus and manga song changes. I'll edit this post later and go more in depth.

Do go on @PewPewPewLasers

I tried out bard on the test server and I think it does have stamina issues. I don't think healing chords should cost that much stam.

 

[Kainzo]

The entire point of Bard is to "twist" songs - so they need to be low cooldown (or no cooldown) free mana/stam use and short duration.

I will review bard soon and make the necessary changes to make it more "song" feel-y

 

[Jack_Reacher]

they need to be low cooldown (or no cooldown) free mana/stam use and short duration

:|
So they could just have Voidsong up indefinitely?

 

[RaekinTheBored]

Please, please do not take these suggestions. I mastered Bard on the last map and this one. Easily my favorite class and I love the changes done to my beneficial support songs.

Sure, you can't spam all your skills due to stamina, but you could use BattleSong to compensate for this. Heck the fact that BattleSong actually helps the Bard is a big improvement. Also Manasong is perfect. Last map it was a joke. This map? Sublime.

 

[werwew19]

Before you start reading my post, I would like to say that I have mastered bard on live and have been really dissapointed with the class overall.

Bard should be the rogue support that can come out of nowhere with his party and help them win the fight by using healing and crowd control to disable the enemies. I can do that as a bard but in small doses. When I run in to a fight I use voidsong and another skill and all of my stamina is gone. Basically what I am saying is that bard should be more heavy on mana than stamina.

Here's what I think (In order from what level you get them at).

Sneak: Keep the same, skill is fine as it is.

Envenom: Takes 150 stamina and 75 mana.

Warsong: 100-135 mana, remove the warmup, increase the cooldown to 10-12 seconds.

Melodic Binding: 200 mana, 150 stamina, up the slow by 1-2.

Accelerando: Keep it the same.

Kick: Keep it the same.

Mana Song: Alright, this skill is what I wanted to express on the most, this might be a bad or good idea but i'm going to express my opinion. 35 Mana cost, Stamina cost is 300-350, cooldown increased to 16 seconds. Your party within a 12 block radius gain 250 mana every time you use it, remove the warmup, make it an active instead of a passive skill.

Song of Respiration: Keep it the same.

Boastful Bellow: 200 mana, 150 stamina, Keep it the same, make it 5 blocks within the person instead of 3.

Battlesong: Remove the stamina cost, up the mana cost to 120.

Drop The Base: Keep it the same.

Healing Chorus: In my opinion healing chorus is a useless spell due to its mana/stamina cost, I think it should be reverted to the old healing chorus and remove 1 crowd control effect and heal 75 health. Up the mana cost to 100, lower stamina cost to 200. Make the cooldown 12 seconds like chakra.

Voidsong: 150 mana, 300 stamina.

This is a rough draft and could change from the communities feedback, I would like @PewPewPewLasers and all the other bards to put their input. I realise some people will think these numbers might be crazy and would like to limit the flaming to as least as possible.

There are a few suggestions that simply don't make sense to me.

I disagree with removing the stamina cost on Battlesong and I can already see it in teamfights being more broken then it is if used right.

Boastful Bellow doesn't need the block increase you are interrupting casting not just dealing damage and that would be stupid at a 5 block range think of it is a small range AOE bash lets not make it a long range AOE bash.

Warsong I can agree on

I talked to @Delfofthebla at the beginning of the map about accelerando if you haven't noticed its basically spammable even with the costs the speed should really scale on an attribute.


Some of these changes don't make sense mainly due to the fact its an amazing class if used right but it seems like people aren't using it right because I don't see a lot of underpowered skills on bard at all.

 

[Dakinara]

I think bard seems pretty good, i can understand the need for warmups for balance purposes but for a few songs (warsong, song of respiration) the warm ups feel maybe meh for what you get (warsong having a warmup just bugs me for some reason, probably carry over from last map).

They are 100% dependent on manasong and battlesong for self mana / stam regen as discussed, dunno if this is good or bad but definitely makes them extremely valuable in big groups due to the huge regen those abilities give.

Boastful bellow based on int for dmg - i dont really have a problem with it but it feels a little odd to me, i mean there are several classes completely dependent on one stat for damage, so dunno why bard needs an int based ability (other than reason to raise to buff envenom also?), but it is strong as is either way.

 

[monkeyfatzer]

There are a few suggestions that simply don't make sense to me.

I disagree with removing the stamina cost on Battlesong and I can already see it in teamfights being more broken then it is if used right.

Boastful Bellow doesn't need the block increase you are interrupting casting not just dealing damage and that would be stupid at a 5 block range think of it is a small range AOE bash lets not make it a long range AOE bash.

Warsong I can agree on

I talked to @Delfofthebla at the beginning of the map about accelerando if you haven't noticed its basically spammable even with the costs the speed should really scale on an attribute.


Some of these changes don't make sense mainly due to the fact its an amazing class if used right but it seems like people aren't using it right because I don't see a lot of underpowered skills on bard at all.

I admit that I was really tired when I made this thread and some of these suggestions don't make sense, but what I am trying to say is that the stamina costs on most of the spells make bards unable to really participate in a fight after using two spells.

I think that bard should rely more on mana costs instead of stamina costs and make mana song similar to what I posted above.

I understand that battlesong gives you stamina but it has a stamina cost and does not give you enough stamina to be that benificial.

 

[werwew19]

I admit that I was really tired when I made this thread and some of these suggestions don't make sense, but what I am trying to say is that the stamina costs on most of the spells make bards unable to really participate in a fight after using two spells.

I think that bard should rely more on mana costs instead of stamina costs and make mana song similar to what I posted above.

I understand that battlesong gives you stamina but it has a stamina cost and does not give you enough stamina to be that benificial.

It gives stamina to an entire party that is why it isn't a ton maybe upping the costs and giving more stamina would make it better I suppose.

 

[Glacial_Reign]

I admit that I was really tired when I made this thread and some of these suggestions don't make sense, but what I am trying to say is that the stamina costs on most of the spells make bards unable to really participate in a fight after using two spells.

I think that bard should rely more on mana costs instead of stamina costs and make mana song similar to what I posted above.

I understand that battlesong gives you stamina but it has a stamina cost and does not give you enough stamina to be that benificial.

Yeah the stamina thing with healing chorus using 4 bars of stamina to a heal that doesn't heal a lot is odd to me but Idk how old bard was. This is my first time playing bard so yeah.

 

[Dakinara]

Yeah the stamina thing with healing chorus using 4 bars of stamina to a heal that doesn't heal a lot is odd to me but Idk how old bard was. This is my first time playing bard so yeah.

From a healing output perspective, it is actually a very nice group heal. It heals a little bit more than druid group heal (healing bloom) over time if cast twice. (healingbloom lasts 20 seconds, healing chorus 10, but with 9 second cooldown healing chorus could be cast twice in the same duration). The stam cost is very high, however, so its situational i guess. Still, seems like something you would want to cast a lot if grouped with 3 or more people.

Ultimately, to me it feels like bard lost a little of its solo power compared to last map, but is now probably the most powerful class you could add to a medium to large sized group. However, in said group they would spend most of their time twisting songs, especially since battlesong has such a short duration.

 

[PewPewPewLasers]

Sorry, I've been MIA recently due to lots of stuff.

Right now, I am a huge fan of bard. I feel the class has gotten a buff since last map, even though it got a damage nerf on melee.

I am going to take back what I said above about managing, as I realize how good of a skill it is right now. The stamina cost is good, it costs 5% of your mana, and you can regen lots of mana fast. It seems to have been increased significantly from last map, which I am a huge fan of.

HealingChorus though, is an awkward skill at the moment. For the huge mana cost and stamina cost, while it is a nice heal for teammates, seems almost as it isn't worth it. I liked it more as it was last map, solely because it had the same effect as chakra (removes negative effects).

SongOfRespiration isn't a fantastic skill to be honest, I am not a huge fan of it. While I have found it useful in some situations, there is hardly any time in a PvP situation it is that useful.

Melodicbinding isn't fantastic right now. I totally agree with what monkey said, because the slow isn't doing enough. I realize before that slowness IV was too much, but slowness II is too little. It NEEDS a buff. I think slowness III would be good.

Battlesong stamina cost I have no issue with. before you wouldn't even benefit from it, so I think that to balance it out it should cost some stamina. Stamina and mana management is the key to being good at bard. While yes, you can spam everything at the same time, that route will get you killed.

Boastfulbellow is doing hella lot of damage. I made a thread about it, I think the damage should be about 110, not 160.

I agree with what @Delfofthebla said on my thread about Bard after some thought. Bard needs the warmups on the buffs, therefore I think they should stay the way they are. If there would be things I could change about the class, they would be:

1. Main weapon Jukebox. I loved this, because it was intended to be a lute. What is more frightening than some crazy man running at you full speed singing weird songs?

2. Nerf the base HP and equipment weight.

3. Healingchorus change listed above.

4. Melodicbinding change listed above.

5. Boastfulbellow change listed above.

So yeah, these are my thoughts on Bard at the moment.

 

[XenZan]

I don't know how feasible it is, but could the amount of healing/stamina/mana/etc that the bard's songs give scale up and down based on party size?
It's just a thought. I dunno how balanced it would/could be, as I am not a bard.

 

[Keache]

Jukeboxes were removed/changed to disks because everyone complained about how they were constantly placing their jukeboxes accidentally in the middle of a fight. Disks allowed people to bind a skill to their weapons without fear of accidentally placing said weapon.

 

[PewPewPewLasers]

Jukeboxes were removed/changed to disks because everyone complained about how they were constantly placing their jukeboxes accidentally in the middle of a fight. Disks allowed people to bind a skill to their weapons without fear of accidentally placing said weapon.

But now , that has been changed. You cant right click blocks for item binds.

 

[Glacial_Reign]

when is bard going to get special discs like the other legendary weapons

 

[PewPewPewLasers]

when is bard going to get special discs like the other legendary weapons

Fire aspect I Sharpness III music disc would be amazing.

 

[ThatAintFalco]

Fire aspect I Sharpness III music disco box would be amazing.