Suggestion Bard is an Awkward Class

[peeeeeeeeeew]

I am making my fourth(?) Bard thread this map, and this one is a summary of why I think the class is 'awkward'. I will try to keep this thread somewhat organized, because nobody likes a wall of text.

Bard in its current state is weird. Why exactly is this though?

The class right now is suffering from their warmups on all their buffs. I have said this in a past thread, and agreed that it wasn't an issue. But after fighting more as a Bard, it is killing the class. Before you initiate a fight, you need to put up buffs. Generally, I like to use Manasong and Warsong. Before I initiate it is nice to get the extra damage and mana regen. However, I only have one problem with initiation; if I begin to use Warsong and I am running after someone, 60-65% this person will log out on me. While yes, you could say that isn't very much, when it occurs it is incredibly annoying. Another problem with the warmups, is that keeping them up in a fight is a pain. I need to back out, and cast manasong, warsong, battlesong (sometimes) and even healingchorus every few fights. With the warmups on these, I am sitting back, while my enemy is most likely hitting me with something, and I am sitting there warming up my buffs.

How can we fix the warmup issue?

Option A:
I'll start off with the most obvious answer. Get rid of the warmups on some of the buffs. The ones I think need their warmups removed are manasong and warsong. These are arguably your two most used buffs while on the playing field. Some may argue accelerando, but I would disagree. Personally, the rule I use with accelerando is it only gets used while fleeing or chasing. Keeping a group organized with accelerando is a nightmare.

Option B:
Channeling (in a way). In my mind, how this would work is simple. The Bard needs to 'sing' their songs, and they can only have one up at a time. This would make the class require more thought as to which songs you need to use in order to be the most effective. Each song would last a minimum of 5 seconds, and a maximum of 15 seconds, with a 10 second cooldown on each of them. So for example, I am about to start a teamfight. Just before we initiate, I use Warsong

PewPewPewLasers begins singing a Warsong!

During the duration of this, everyone in my party has 10% increased damage from all sources. As we go on into the fight, people are starting to lose their mana fast

PewPewPewLasers begins singing a Manasong!

During the duration of this, every 4 seconds, everyone is replenished 125 mana. People are also low on their stamina

PewPewPewLasers begins singing a Battlesong!

Every 3 seconds, everyone in my party is restoring 300 stamina. Do you see where I am going with this?

HealingChorus:
This right now is a bad skill. I mean that when I say it, It costs way too much stamina and mana for it to be effective at all. And like mentioned in a few other threads, HoTs aren't great. People before would use this spell as a heal (when it was like 50hp) which was wrong. The best part about healingchorus was that is had the dispel. That was incredible for a teamfight. Now, Bard is stuck with a not so good heal that costs a fortune to use.
What do I suggest?:

Change the skill to how it used to be. Even if there wasn't a heal, it would still be great for getting teammates out of things like root.

So yeah, my thoughts on Bard. Feel free to leave feedback, and if you disagree with something, please state why. (Same goes for if you agree with something).

-Pew
EDIT:
Adding this to the main post

If you like the idea then please rate the post! If you have concerns, questions or comments please reply below!
This is @@Eldrylars ' format, so thanks to you Eldry! I am not the best at writing the lore parts, so bare with me .
__________________________________________________________________________
"As the group charged in the battle, the Bard, equipped with a lute, sang harmonious songs of inspiration. The power of the Bard's song was enough to empower his team; the enemies fell to the ground as the Bard played lovely tunes on his lute. He not only used his songs for good, but for evil as well." - The Bard, PewPewPewLasers


Bard
A unique support class with a different playstyle.

The Bard utilizes songs to support allies, but also defeat foes. Whether it be a song of healing or war, or a song of hatred and void.


Basic Information:
Type: Rogue
Focus: Supporting teammates
Base Equip Weight: 35
Weapon: Jukebox
Base Damage: 40
Max Damage: 65

Base Health: 775
Health Per Lvl: 0.55
Max Health: 975

Base Stamina: 1250

Base Mana: 465
Mana Per Lvl: 3
Max Mana: 715

Starting Attributes:
Strength: 2
Constitution: -1
Endurance: 3
Agility: -4
Intellect: 1
Wisdom: 1
Charisma: 3

Strengths:
An incredibly strong class in teamfights; buffs to support allies, and slows, silences, and cc to down enemies.

Weaknesses:
Doesn't do very much damage, isn't incredibly tanky, and doesn't work well alone.

Descriptions and Explanations
Skills:
Level: 1
Applause -
Mana: 0 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 0 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description: Certain skills are more effective based on the amount of people affected by them.
Lore:

Level: 5
Smash -
Mana: 0 Stamina: 275 Cooldown: 8 Warmup: 0 Reagent: Jukebox (Doesn't consume, just required to use the skill)
Description: You smash your lute into 3 targets within 4 blocks of you, interrupting casting and slowing for a short amount of time. Deals 35 damage +(0.125) per point of strength.
Lore:

Level: 10
Forte -
Mana: 45 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 7 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description: You inspire your allies with a song of war, increasing damage done by 10% (+1% for every person affected by this) for 8 seconds (+0.25 per point of charisma)
Lore:

Level: 15
Mezzo Piano -
Mana: 0 Stamina: 285 Cooldown: 12 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description: You sing a harmonic tune, granting all allies 25 mana (+10 for every person affected by this) every three seconds for 10 seconds (+0.25 per point of charisma)
Lore:

Level 25
Accelerando -
Mana: 125 Stamina: 305 Cooldown: 45 Warmup: 1 Reagent: None
Description: Your song encourages all allies to speed up, granting them speed II for 5 seconds (+0.125 per point of charisma). Doesn't break on hit.
Lore:

Level: 30
Decelerando -
Mana: 215 Stamina: 250 Cooldown: 25 Warmup: 2 Reagent: None
Description: You play a slow, soft song, giving all enemies reduced speed (Speed IV) for 3 seconds (+0.08 per point of charisma)
Lore:

Level: 37
Agitato -
Mana: 120 Stamina: 300 Cooldown: 25 Warmup: 1 Reagent: None
Description: You play an incredibly agitating song, causing all enemies to be interrupted, take 65 damage (+3 for every person affected by this) and lose 5 of every attribute for 5 seconds (+0.25 per point of charisma)
Lore:

Level: 45
Fortississimo -
Mana: 50 Stamina: 275 Cooldown: 15 Warmup: 1 Reagent: None
Description: You play an ear shattering note, disrupting casting and silencing all enemies within 7 blocks for 1.5 seconds (+0.05 per point of charisma)
Lore:

Level: 50
Eroico -
Mana: 65 Stamina: 125 Cooldown: 12 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description: You play a heroic tune, dispelling all negative effects from teammates within 7 blocks, and healing for 55 (+0.75 per point of charisma).
Lore:

Level: 58
Gustoso -
Mana: 100 Stamina: 110 Cooldown: 10 Warmup: 1 Reagent: None
Description: You play an emphasizing note, causing all allies within 6 blocks to regain 250 (+0.25 per person affected) stamina over 5 seconds (-0.05 per point of charisma)
Lore:

Level: 65
Fermata -
Mana: 350 Stamina: 400 Cooldown: 500 Warmup: 3 Reagent:
Description: You play a long note, allowing no allies within 12 blocks to fall under 1hp for 3 seconds (+ 0.035 per point of charisma)
Lore:

So there you have it. An idea of how I think Bard should work. It hasn't been changed a whole lot admittedly, but I think these changes would be a cool little turn for the class.

 

[szatanista]

Dod every class is weird and awkward right now except Wizard, dragoon, ranger and ninja. Gotta w8 untill balance team wakes up

 

[Carbash]

You could go as far as to have lingering effects of a previous song. Something like 10-20 seconds would be good. This way it would make it more beneficial to rotate songs periodically.

 

[JacobBurkey]

or bring back old bard.. was already really balanced in my mind last map..

 

[malikdanab]

Dod every class is weird and awkward now except Wizard, dragoon, ranger and ninja. Gotta w8 untill balance team wakes up

It's not really the balance teams fault. You can't read it since you aren't a member, but we have had many conversations on how to fix the classes. It's all up to Kainzo to add the changes to live.

/End Rant

In the case of bard. I could see bard's skills being auras. This makes more sense lore wise since you'd actually need to be near the bard to hear his song.
Example:

Warsong-
CD: 0
Warm up: 1 second
(20 + 0.125 per charisma point) % Extra damage with Melee and Bows ( Actual numbers would be higher since you would be limited to one aura at a time)
Mana: 5 mana per tick (ticks every second)

The buff lasts for 3 seconds and refreshes when inside of the aura

In the case of healing chorus, maybe keep the DOT heal, but increases all heals to your party members
(Would help out your healer friends )

 

[Dakinara]

I think healing chorus is actually a nice group heal, but if most bards preffered the dispel then i dont see issue of either or / reduce heal amount n bring back dispel

 

[malikdanab]

I think healing chorus is actually a nice group heal, but if most bards preffered the dispel then i dont see issue of either or / reduce heal amount n bring back dispel

Maybe making a "Cleansing Concerto" skill (I'm bad with names ) That removes Debuffs from your party and Buffs from the enemies.

 

[peeeeeeeeeew]

It's not really the balance teams fault. You can't read it since you aren't a member, but we have had many conversations on how to fix the classes. It's all up to Kainzo to add the changes to live.

/End Rant

In the case of bard. I could see bard's skills being auras. This makes more sense lore wise since you'd actually need to be near the bard to hear his song.
Example:

Warsong-
CD: 0
Warm up: 1 second
(20 + 0.125 per charisma point) % Extra damage with Melee and Bows ( Actual numbers would be higher since you would be limited to one aura at a time)
Mana: 5 mana per tick (ticks every second)

The buff lasts for 3 seconds and refreshes when inside of the aura

In the case of healing chorus, maybe keep the DOT heal, but increases all heals to your party members
(Would help out your healer friends )

I want Warsong to be effective for all classes. Nerf the % damage boost, but make it flat out damage.

 

[malikdanab]

I want Warsong to be effective for all classes. Nerf the % damage boost, but make it flat out damage.

Make warsong increase all out going dmg? Since you can only have one at a time, i wouldn't lower the damage too much (Or make it flat amount)
(15 + 0.125 Cha) seems ok. (Maybe be too high...)

 

[Eldrylars]

@PewPewPewLasers you can update with the color formatting by clicking reply and then in the top right corner of your reply there is a little button with a wrench called BB Code Editor. Click that once you have clicked reply and then copy and paste with all the formatting to make it easier to read.

If you like the idea then please rate the post! If you have concerns, questions or comments please reply below!
__________________________________________________________________________​

"As the group charged in the battle, the Bard, equipped with a lute, sang harmonious songs of inspiration. The power of the Bard's song was enough to empower his team; the enemies fell to the ground as the Bard played lovely tunes on his lute. He not only used his songs for good, but for evil as well." - The Bard, PewPewPewLasers


<Bard>
A unique support class with a different play-style.

<The Bard utilizes songs to support allies, but also defeat foes. Whether it be a song of healing or war, or a song of hatred and void.>


Basic Information:
Type: Rogue
Focus: Supporting teammates
Base Equip Weight: 35
Weapon: Jukebox
Base Damage: 45
Max Damage: 65

Base Health: 775
Health Per Lvl: 0.55
Max Health: 975

Base Stamina: 1250

Base Mana: 465
Mana Per Lvl:3
Max Mana: 715

Starting Attributes:
Strength: 2
Constitution: -1
Endurance: 3
Agility: -4
Intellect: 1
Wisdom: 1
Charisma: 3

Strengths:
An incredibly strong class in team fights; buffs to support allies, and slows, silences, and cc to down enemies.

Weaknesses:
Doesn't do very much damage, isn't incredibly tanky, and doesn't work well alone.

Songs

• As song's are meant the inspire and awe those around the entertainer, the more people effected by the song the more powerful the song will be.

Skills:

Level: 5
Smash -
Mana: 0 Stamina: 275 Cooldown: 8 Warmup: 0 Reagent: Jukebox(Doesn't consume, just required to use the skill)
Description: You smash your lute into 3 targets within 4 blocks of you, interrupting casting and slowing for a short amount of time. Deals 35 damage +(0.125) per point of strength.
Lore:

Level: 10
Forte -
Mana: 45 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 7 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description: You inspire your allies with a song of war, increasing damage done by 10% (+1% for every person affected by this) for 8 seconds (+0.25 per point of charisma)
Lore:

Level: 15
Mezzo Piano -
Mana: 0 Stamina: 285 Cooldown: 12 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description: You sing a harmonic tune, granting all allies 25 mana (+10 for every person affected by this) every three seconds for 10 seconds (+0.25 per point of charisma)
Lore:

Level: 25
Accelerando -
Mana: 0 Stamina: 345 Cooldown: 45 Warmup: 1 Reagent: None
Description: Your song encourages all allies to speed up, granting them speed II for 5 seconds (+0.125 per point of charisma). Doesn't break on hit.
Lore:

Level 30
Decelerando -
Mana: 215 Stamina: 250 Cooldown: 25 Warmup: 2 Reagent: None
Description: You play a slow, soft song, giving all enemies reduced speed (Speed IV) for 3 seconds (+0.08 per point of charisma)
Lore:

Level: 37
Agitato -
Mana: 120 Stamina: 300 Cooldown: 25 Warmup: 1 Reagent: None
Description: You play an incredibly agitating song, causing all enemies to be interrupted, take 65 damage (+3 for every person affected by this) and lose 5 of every attribute for 5 seconds (+0.25 per point of charisma)
Lore:

Level: 45
Fortississimo -
Mana: 50 Stamina: 275 Cooldown: 25 Warmup: 1 Reagent: None
Description: You play an ear shattering note, disrupting casting and silencing all enemies within 7 blocks for 1.5 seconds (+0.05 per point of charisma)
Lore:

Level: 50
Eroico -
Mana: 65 Stamina: 125 Cooldown: 12 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description: You play a heroic tune, dispelling all negative effects from teammates within 7 blocks, and healing for 55 (+0.75 per point of charisma).
Lore:

Level: 58
Gustoso -
Mana: 100 Stamina: 110 Cooldown: 10 Warmup: 1 Reagent: None
Description: You play an emphasizing note, causing all allies within 6 blocks to regain 250 (+0.25 per person affected) stamina over 5 seconds (-0.05 per point of charisma)
Lore:

Level: 65
Fermata -
Mana: 250 Stamina: 500 Cooldown: 500 Warmup: 3 Reagent: None
Description: You play a long note, allowing no allies within 12 blocks to fall under 1hp for 3 seconds (+ 0.035 per point of charisma)
Lore:

 

[peeeeeeeeeew]

Do Eet Pew! Reply to this post and use the BBC editor in the top right and suggest your idea of a balanced well functioning bard! Maybe even put it as your main POST so that people can easily see what you are trying to built. I know you can do eet!

If you like the idea then please rate the post! If you have concerns, questions or comments please reply below!
__________________________________________________________________________​

"Right a short story about your class here." - <Story Name>, <Writer>


<classname>
<basic class description>

<In-depth class description>


Basic Information:
Type: <Healer, Rogue, Warrior, Mage, Hybrid>
Focus: <Class Purpose>
Base Equip Weight: 00
Weapon: <Main Weapon>
Base Damage: 0
Max Damage: 0

Base Health: 0
Health Per Lvl: 0
Max Health: 0

Base Stamina: 0

Base Mana: 0
Mana Per Lvl:0
Max Mana: 0

Starting Attributes: <Should Equal +10 total>
Strength: 0
Constitution: 0
Endurance: 0
Agility: 0
Intellect: 0
Wisdom: 0
Charisma: 0

Strengths:
<List class strengths here>

Weaknesses:
<List class strengths here>

Any new types of Skills should be listed and explained here

• Descriptions and Explanations

Skills:
Level: 1
<Name> -
Mana: 0 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 0 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description:
Lore:

Level: 5
<Name> -
Mana: 0 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 0 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description:
Lore:

Level: 10
<Name> -
Mana: 0 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 0 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description:
Lore:

Level: 15
<Name> -
Mana: 0 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 0 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description:
Lore:

Level: 20
<Name> -
Mana: 0 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 0 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description:
Lore:

Level 25
<Name> -
Mana: 0 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 0 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description:
Lore:

Level: 30
<Name> -
Mana: 0 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 0 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description:
Lore:

Level: 35
<Name> -
Mana: 0 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 0 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description:
Lore:

Level: 40
<Name> -
Mana: 0 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 0 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description:
Lore:

Level: 45
<Name> -
Mana: 0 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 0 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description:
Lore:

Level: 50
<Name> -
Mana: 0 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 0 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description:
Lore:

Level: 55
<Name> -
Mana: 0 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 0 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description:
Lore:

Level: 60
<Name> -
Mana: 0 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 0 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description:
Lore:

Level: 65
<Name> -
Mana: 0 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 0 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description:
Lore:

I would do this, but I am not really suggesting a rework of the class, just change how the skills work.

 

[peeeeeeeeeew]

or bring back old bard.. was already really balanced in my mind last map..

Bard in the end of last map was not balanced solely due to the fact that the disc did 92 damage with Warsong. Also, I'm not sure if you were a Bard at the time, but for a long time, Bards could hit 107 damage with Warsong + cracked music disc. Twas OP to say the least.

 

[Delfofthebla]

At the end of Bastion, I decided I wanted to rework Bard. I talked to Kainzo about it, and probed for his design intentions with the current class. He wanted something similar to me--a large variety of abilities that the Bard had to "twist" together to form a useful presence. This is something that existed in the original Everquest, and was a very fun mechanic that created a very powerful, very dynamic class. In EQ, the bard had the "ability" to do everything, but he could really only ever do 3 things at once. The bard would be forced to constantly mix his songs together while performing in combat. This is what Kainzo was trying to achieve for Herocraft.

The original method of accomplishing this was to place very large stamina costs onto the abilities. This way, he wouldn't be able to "do everything at once". However, I found that with the addition of diamonds, and other stamina restoration abilities, this wasn't really working out the way he intended. Additionally, the plan to add increased stamina regen to Endurance made this even less true. Kainzo wanted Charisma to be the Bard stat, but the way it was going, it was likely going to be Endurance. Due to this, I decided to revamp Bard.

The plan was to straight up use the Everquest mechanics.
* Large variety of generic abilities
* All abilities are "over time" effects that span across 4 seconds
* All abilities have no cooldowns, no costs, but have a 1 second warmup
* The warmup does not slow, and cannot be interrupted. (You can melee during the warmup).

In order to accomplish this, I rewrote a large portion of the Heroes ability code to handle the new warmup system. I put it in game, and guess what! It was complete and utter shit. The logic of Everquest was that every buff lasted 4 seconds, but it cost 1 second to cast. Due to the limited duration and forced cast time, it was impossible to do more than 3 things. However, due to lag, desync, and general Minecraft tomfoolery, this was not the case at all. Additionally, it just felt derp to see the chat being spammed like crazy with a slew of bard warmups every couple of seconds.

The rework, was a flop. Additionally, every single skill had to be re-written for attributes, and I had essentially scrapped all the old Bard skills. I was in too deep and I was super demotivated due to already recoding over 150 skills. I was mentally drained and just didn't give a shit. I was actually pretty set on the idea of scrapping Bard all together until a future date.

It was around this time that you, Pew, sent me your Bard revamp ideas. I actually liked them a lot, so I got motivated and started working on them. However, due to the complex nature of your suggestions, I found it very hard to get a consistent number control in place. All the more so when I needed to factor Charisma into the equation. After getting demotivated once more, and the clock ticking down (I think we had about what, 2-4 days left before the reset at this point), I decided it was a bust. I hastily re-wrote several abilities to place them near what they were in Bastion, and threw the remains of Bard together. It became a combination of my rework with the original Bastion Bard, and it was an abomination.

As many people noticed at the start of the map, Bard was a complete and utter fucking mess. I placed hotfix after hotfix onto him, but it certainly didn't solve the underlying problem--it had no rhyme or reason for what it was. The design just wasn't there, and it still isn't. The current Bard is definitely not something I intended to stay the way it is, but that's what we've got.

It's probably a good idea to give it a complete make-over once more.

 

[peeeeeeeeeew]

At the end of Bastion, I decided I wanted to rework Bard. I talked to Kainzo about it, and probed for his design intentions with the current class. He wanted something similar to me--a large variety of abilities that the Bard had to "twist" together to form a useful presence. This is something that existed in the original Everquest, and was a very fun mechanic that created a very powerful, very dynamic class. In EQ, the bard had the "ability" to do everything, but he could really only ever do 3 things at once. The bard would be forced to constantly mix his songs together while performing in combat. This is what Kainzo was trying to achieve for Herocraft.

The original method of accomplishing this was to place very large stamina costs onto the abilities. This way, he wouldn't be able to "do everything at once". However, I found that with the addition of diamonds, and other stamina restoration abilities, this wasn't really working out the way he intended. Additionally, the plan to add increased stamina regen to Endurance made this even less true. Kainzo wanted Charisma to be the Bard stat, but the way it was going, it was likely going to be Endurance. Due to this, I decided to revamp Bard.

The plan was to straight up use the Everquest mechanics.
* Large variety of generic abilities
* All abilities are "over time" effects that span across 4 seconds
* All abilities have no cooldowns, no costs, but have a 1 second warmup
* The warmup does not slow, and cannot be interrupted. (You can melee during the warmup).

In order to accomplish this, I rewrote a large portion of the Heroes ability code to handle the new warmup system. I put it in game, and guess what! It was complete and utter shit. The logic of Everquest was that every buff lasted 4 seconds, but it cost 1 second to cast. Due to the limited duration and forced cast time, it was impossible to do more than 3 things. However, due to lag, desync, and general Minecraft tomfoolery, this was not the case at all. Additionally, it just felt derp to see the chat being spammed like crazy with a slew of bard warmups every couple of seconds.

The rework, was a flop. Additionally, every single skill had to be re-written for attributes, and I had essentially scrapped all the old Bard skills. I was in too deep and I was super demotivated due to already recoding over 150 skills. I was mentally drained and just didn't give a shit. I was actually pretty set on the idea of scrapping Bard all together until a future date.

It was around this time that you, Pew, sent me your Bard revamp ideas. I actually liked them a lot, so I got motivated and started working on them. However, due to the complex nature of your suggestions, I found it very hard to get a consistent number control in place. All the more so when I needed to factor Charisma into the equation. After getting demotivated once more, and the clock ticking down (I think we had about what, 2-4 days left before the reset at this point), I decided it was a bust. I hastily re-wrote several abilities to place them near what they were in Bastion, and threw the remains of Bard together. It became a combination of my rework with the original Bastion Bard, and it was an abomination.

As many people noticed at the start of the map, Bard was a complete and utter fucking mess. I placed hotfix after hotfix onto him, but it certainly didn't solve the underlying problem--it had no rhyme or reason for what it was. The design just wasn't there, and it still isn't. The current Bard is definitely not something I intended to stay the way it is, but that's what we've got.

It's probably a good idea to give it a complete make-over once more.

When I sent you my rework it was very cluttered and disorganized. If you would like, I could rewrite it using Eldry's template and post it here, in a more organized fashion.

 

[Dakinara]

At the end of Bastion, I decided I wanted to rework Bard. I talked to Kainzo about it, and probed for his design intentions with the current class. He wanted something similar to me--a large variety of abilities that the Bard had to "twist" together to form a useful presence. This is something that existed in the original Everquest, and was a very fun mechanic that created a very powerful, very dynamic class. In EQ, the bard had the "ability" to do everything, but he could really only ever do 3 things at once. The bard would be forced to constantly mix his songs together while performing in combat. This is what Kainzo was trying to achieve for Herocraft.

The original method of accomplishing this was to place very large stamina costs onto the abilities. This way, he wouldn't be able to "do everything at once". However, I found that with the addition of diamonds, and other stamina restoration abilities, this wasn't really working out the way he intended. Additionally, the plan to add increased stamina regen to Endurance made this even less true. Kainzo wanted Charisma to be the Bard stat, but the way it was going, it was likely going to be Endurance. Due to this, I decided to revamp Bard.

The plan was to straight up use the Everquest mechanics.
* Large variety of generic abilities
* All abilities are "over time" effects that span across 4 seconds
* All abilities have no cooldowns, no costs, but have a 1 second warmup
* The warmup does not slow, and cannot be interrupted. (You can melee during the warmup).

In order to accomplish this, I rewrote a large portion of the Heroes ability code to handle the new warmup system. I put it in game, and guess what! It was complete and utter shit. The logic of Everquest was that every buff lasted 4 seconds, but it cost 1 second to cast. Due to the limited duration and forced cast time, it was impossible to do more than 3 things. However, due to lag, desync, and general Minecraft tomfoolery, this was not the case at all. Additionally, it just felt derp to see the chat being spammed like crazy with a slew of bard warmups every couple of seconds.

The rework, was a flop. Additionally, every single skill had to be re-written for attributes, and I had essentially scrapped all the old Bard skills. I was in too deep and I was super demotivated due to already recoding over 150 skills. I was mentally drained and just didn't give a shit. I was actually pretty set on the idea of scrapping Bard all together until a future date.

It was around this time that you, Pew, sent me your Bard revamp ideas. I actually liked them a lot, so I got motivated and started working on them. However, due to the complex nature of your suggestions, I found it very hard to get a consistent number control in place. All the more so when I needed to factor Charisma into the equation. After getting demotivated once more, and the clock ticking down (I think we had about what, 2-4 days left before the reset at this point), I decided it was a bust. I hastily re-wrote several abilities to place them near what they were in Bastion, and threw the remains of Bard together. It became a combination of my rework with the original Bastion Bard, and it was an abomination.

As many people noticed at the start of the map, Bard was a complete and utter fucking mess. I placed hotfix after hotfix onto him, but it certainly didn't solve the underlying problem--it had no rhyme or reason for what it was. The design just wasn't there, and it still isn't. The current Bard is definitely not something I intended to stay the way it is, but that's what we've got.

It's probably a good idea to give it a complete make-over once more.

Honestly i think the current bard is pretty interesting and does support groups very well, but doesnt seem to be popular and i know shadow and apparently pew both feel its kinda goofy / ackward. Ah well lol, i feel for ya, definately hard to make an everquest 1 bard fit in a minecraft world lol.

 

[RaekinTheBored]

Honestly i think the current bard is pretty interesting and does support groups very well, but doesnt seem to be popular and i know shadow and apparently pew both feel its kinda goofy / ackward. Ah well lol, i feel for ya, definately hard to make an everquest 1 bard fit in a minecraft world lol.

It does play pretty awkward. EQ Bard became pretty broken once AA's got added. Making one with MC mechanics is a chore I wish not on my worst enemy.

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

or bring back old bard.. was already really balanced in my mind last map..

It's DPS was insanely high and effectiveness/CD of Accelerando was too good. If that was dealt with I think it would be balanced enough.

 

[Kainzo]

I am making my fourth(?) Bard thread this map, and this one is a summary of why I think the class is 'awkward'. I will try to keep this thread somewhat organized, because nobody likes a wall of text.

Bard in its current state is weird. Why exactly is this though?

The class right now is suffering from their warmups on all their buffs. I have said this in a past thread, and agreed that it wasn't an issue. But after fighting more as a Bard, it is killing the class. Before you initiate a fight, you need to put up buffs. Generally, I like to use Manasong and Warsong. Before I initiate it is nice to get the extra damage and mana regen. However, I only have one problem with initiation; if I begin to use Warsong and I am running after someone, 60-65% this person will log out on me. While yes, you could say that isn't very much, when it occurs it is incredibly annoying. Another problem with the warmups, is that keeping them up in a fight is a pain. I need to back out, and cast manasong, warsong, battlesong (sometimes) and even healingchorus every few fights. With the warmups on these, I am sitting back, while my enemy is most likely hitting me with something, and I am sitting there warming up my buffs.

How can we fix the warmup issue?

Option A:
I'll start off with the most obvious answer. Get rid of the warmups on some of the buffs. The ones I think need their warmups removed are manasong and warsong. These are arguably your two most used buffs while on the playing field. Some may argue accelerando, but I would disagree. Personally, the rule I use with accelerando is it only gets used while fleeing or chasing. Keeping a group organized with accelerando is a nightmare.

Option B:
Channeling (in a way). In my mind, how this would work is simple. The Bard needs to 'sing' their songs, and they can only have one up at a time. This would make the class require more thought as to which songs you need to use in order to be the most effective. Each song would last a minimum of 5 seconds, and a maximum of 15 seconds, with a 10 second cooldown on each of them. So for example, I am about to start a teamfight. Just before we initiate, I use Warsong

PewPewPewLasers begins singing a Warsong!

During the duration of this, everyone in my party has 10% increased damage from all sources. As we go on into the fight, people are starting to lose their mana fast

PewPewPewLasers begins singing a Manasong!

During the duration of this, every 4 seconds, everyone is replenished 125 mana. People are also low on their stamina

PewPewPewLasers begins singing a Battlesong!

Every 3 seconds, everyone in my party is restoring 300 stamina. Do you see where I am going with this?

HealingChorus:
This right now is a bad skill. I mean that when I say it, It costs way too much stamina and mana for it to be effective at all. And like mentioned in a few other threads, HoTs aren't great. People before would use this spell as a heal (when it was like 50hp) which was wrong. The best part about healingchorus was that is had the dispel. That was incredible for a teamfight. Now, Bard is stuck with a not so good heal that costs a fortune to use.
What do I suggest?:

Change the skill to how it used to be. Even if there wasn't a heal, it would still be great for getting teammates out of things like root.

So yeah, my thoughts on Bard. Feel free to leave feedback, and if you disagree with something, please state why. (Same goes for if you agree with something).

-Pew

I'll consider some of this, thanks for the insight.

I think we'll have to use a new skill type for Bard that is always on until toggled. We'll have to see the best way to handle this. It's a work in progress.

 

[Solidze]

I'm enjoying my bard the way it is....but I guess it's how you really play it. I've built a solid build that allows me to have unlimited resources to spam spells, however trying to melee at any point while trying to keep my auras up is frustrating with the warmups. The solo play is meh, especially trying to keep up damage increasing buffs in order to fight back ....so I have to stop auto attacking for a sec. The group play feels amazing, I really feel like a Mystic (Great AOE Rejuve) from last map with a little extra to give. I really do like the current heal thats present and hope to see the current HealingChorus stay and since we are short on spells....maybe adding the dispel to a new spell/song?

 

[peeeeeeeeeew]

If you like the idea then please rate the post! If you have concerns, questions or comments please reply below!
This is @Eldrylars ' format, so thanks to you Eldry! I am not the best at writing the lore parts, so bare with me .
__________________________________________________________________________
"As the group charged in the battle, the Bard, equipped with a lute, sang harmonious songs of inspiration. The power of the Bard's song was enough to empower his team; the enemies fell to the ground as the Bard played lovely tunes on his lute. He not only used his songs for good, but for evil as well." - The Bard, PewPewPewLasers


Bard
A unique support class with a different playstyle.

The Bard utilizes songs to support allies, but also defeat foes. Whether it be a song of healing or war, or a song of hatred and void.


Basic Information:
Type: Rogue
Focus: Supporting teammates
Base Equip Weight: 35
Weapon: Jukebox
Base Damage: 40
Max Damage: 65

Base Health: 775
Health Per Lvl: 0.55
Max Health: 975

Base Stamina: 1250

Base Mana: 465
Mana Per Lvl: 3
Max Mana: 715

Starting Attributes:
Strength: 2
Constitution: -1
Endurance: 3
Agility: -4
Intellect: 1
Wisdom: 1
Charisma: 3

Strengths:
An incredibly strong class in teamfights; buffs to support allies, and slows, silences, and cc to down enemies.

Weaknesses:
Doesn't do very much damage, isn't incredibly tanky, and doesn't work well alone.

Descriptions and Explanations
Skills:
Level: 1
Applause -
Mana: 0 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 0 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description: Certain skills are more effective based on the amount of people affected by them.
Lore:

Level: 5
Smash -
Mana: 0 Stamina: 275 Cooldown: 8 Warmup: 0 Reagent: Jukebox (Doesn't consume, just required to use the skill)
Description: You smash your lute into 3 targets within 4 blocks of you, interrupting casting and slowing for a short amount of time. Deals 35 damage +(0.125) per point of strength.
Lore:

Level: 10
Forte -
Mana: 45 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 7 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description: You inspire your allies with a song of war, increasing damage done by 10% (+1% for every person affected by this) for 8 seconds (+0.25 per point of charisma)
Lore:

Level: 15
Mezzo Piano -
Mana: 0 Stamina: 285 Cooldown: 12 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description: You sing a harmonic tune, granting all allies 25 mana (+10 for every person affected by this) every three seconds for 10 seconds (+0.25 per point of charisma)
Lore:

Level 25
Accelerando -
Mana: 125 Stamina: 305 Cooldown: 45 Warmup: 1 Reagent: None
Description: Your song encourages all allies to speed up, granting them speed II for 5 seconds (+0.125 per point of charisma). Doesn't break on hit.
Lore:

Level: 30
Decelerando -
Mana: 215 Stamina: 250 Cooldown: 25 Warmup: 2 Reagent: None
Description: You play a slow, soft song, giving all enemies reduced speed (Speed IV) for 3 seconds (+0.08 per point of charisma)
Lore:

Level: 37
Agitato -
Mana: 120 Stamina: 300 Cooldown: 25 Warmup: 1 Reagent: None
Description: You play an incredibly agitating song, causing all enemies to be interrupted, take 65 damage (+3 for every person affected by this) and lose 5 of every attribute for 5 seconds (+0.25 per point of charisma)
Lore:

Level: 45
Fortississimo -
Mana: 50 Stamina: 275 Cooldown: 15 Warmup: 1 Reagent: None
Description: You play an ear shattering note, disrupting casting and silencing all enemies within 7 blocks for 1.5 seconds (+0.05 per point of charisma)
Lore:

Level: 50
Eroico -
Mana: 65 Stamina: 125 Cooldown: 12 Warmup: 0 Reagent: None
Description: You play a heroic tune, dispelling all negative effects from teammates within 7 blocks, and healing for 55 (+0.75 per point of charisma).
Lore:

Level: 58
Gustoso -
Mana: 100 Stamina: 110 Cooldown: 10 Warmup: 1 Reagent: None
Description: You play an emphasizing note, causing all allies within 6 blocks to regain 250 (+0.25 per person affected) stamina over 5 seconds (-0.05 per point of charisma)
Lore:

Level: 65
Fermata -
Mana: 350 Stamina: 400 Cooldown: 500 Warmup: 3 Reagent:
Description: You play a long note, allowing no allies within 12 blocks to fall under 1hp for 3 seconds (+ 0.035 per point of charisma)
Lore:

So there you have it. An idea of how I think Bard should work. It hasn't been changed a whole lot admittedly, but I think these changes would be a cool little turn for the class.