Suggestion Balancing Ninja In 2 Steps

[Keache]

The idea is supposed to be that when a Ninja is using blackjack out of stealth, they lose out a big advantage. The problem as I see it is that this "Big advantage" is a ~30 damage reduction. I say either implement the whole "Must be sneaking or smoked to stun" thing, or reduce the stun duration in addition to the damage when one is not sneaking or smoked.

 

[monkeyfatzer]

I laughed for 10 minutes straight. Please tell me, as a Disciple, how can I prevent you from blackjacking me. I'm all ears. Last I checked blackjack was instant cast with a 5 block range, so there is NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT IT. I guess I'm bad because I can't prevent a ninja from blackjacking me? lol. Maaaaaaaaaaaan, wtf.

You should seikuken right when I run at you so it disarms me for my whole blackjack time, I can't eviscerate during that time or backstab. Sure I will cancel it with blackjack but i'm disarmed.

 

[Dakinara]

you still have the advantage. he can try and anticipate you using blackjack, but you could just not use it immediately upon getting in melee range. If you have an instant cast stun, you are always in the driver seat of the fight until the stun expires - just a matter of making sure you use it properly.

 

[malikdanab]

Can we just remove blackjack and call it a day?

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

You should seikuken right when I run at you so it disarms me for my whole blackjack time, I can't eviscerate during that time or backstab. Sure I will cancel it with blackjack but i'm disarmed.

This is wrong. First thing is first, Seikuken requires that the NINJA needs to LEFT CLICK me in order to get disarmed. If I open up with Seikuken right before I anticipate a blackjack, its a complete waste of a skill. The reason for this is because blackjack is a STUN and a SILENCE. I pop Seikuken, he pops blackjack, and he keeps his sword while he backstabs the shit out of me. The real ONLY way I can pull this off is if a Ninja were to use blackjack on me while he is already disarmed. No ninja in their right mind would ever stun someone when they don't have a sword.

I stand by my original claim; I'm going to get blackjacked, and there's nothing I can do about it.

 

[malikdanab]

So can we narrow down the problem? Is the problem: Blackjack stuns you too long or ninja have too much damage and blackjack makes it unpreventable?

 

[Dakinara]

basically, imo, yes, blackjack should just be removed entirely, or changed in function so that it is not a true stun. What it should be? dunno. Maybe it could be somewhat balanced as a "disorient" type ability instead that would "stun" the target but break immediately on damage. Even then would have to feel it out on test to see how it goes.

 

[malikdanab]

TBH, I never liked blackjack's concept. A blackjack is a basically a police baton. Explain to how a ninja is capable of stunning an armored warrior with a heavy stick. It doesn't fit the class and it just makes them too powerful.

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

Well, yeh, getting rid of blackjack would probably bring a ninja back down to earth. Amazingly, getting rid of a skill as effective as this one wouldn't even turn the class from OP to UP. You can't argue that ninjas have a huge set of skills that helps them in mobility, melee, ranged, and survivability. Add on that they still have Kick and Blind and you're left wondering why Ninja has a stun in the first place.

The issue with stuns (aside from piggify) is that when a player is stunned he doesn't move an inch during that time. A ninja can get behind a player and spam left click and he doesn't need to move an inch to 'catch up to him'.

Backstab is a good skill, and a ninja should be rewarded for hitting someone from behind. Without a stun it'll be harder to backstab your opponent, but certainly not impossible. Blind does a good enough job to disorient a player that he's unable to see more than a couple blocks infront of his face. During a blind, a ninja should be able to get off some backstabs. Lets not forget that Blinded players are unable to sprint either. Hell, even if a player is running away from a fight you can catch up to him with your agility/backflip and stab him in the back here and there.

Of course, a Ninja would really shine in a team fight. With so many people running around a Ninja can set himself to focus on backstabbing 1 guy (preferably a squishy class) and make short work of him. If all else fails, run around with a Paladin or Berserker who have stuns, and backstab the poor souls that they stun.

In short, a Ninja is perfectly able to hold his own without blackjack. The catch is, you actually have to be an average PVPer to get a kill. As is, someone who is new to Minecraft can blackjack, get behind a player, and left click to produce ungodly amounts of damage. It's just not right.

 

[Beastmannn]

I agree, i'm constantly getting blackjacked and instakilled over and over. No way to get out of it and survive unless they don't get enough left clicks off on me and i get a quick masspiggify.

 

[Keache]

I would rather reward a ninja for being sneaky and doing his job properly than just taking out blackjack entirely. Yes, you can blind someone, but i'm sure you know how easy it is to spin around while repeatedly spamming left click until you hit something. Even further, it's super easy to get a ninja out of sneak, which tremendously reduces a ninja's damage output.

What I would be happy with is my previous suggestion, or by changing the skill to only work/last longer if someone is not facing you. That way it is more balanced, less "lolbackstabrunbehindyoutonsofdamage" and more "better be smart about how I start fighting him by smoking or catching him by surprise".

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

The most idiotic ironic thing about Ninja is that if they just so happened to become stunned, they can use EscapeArtist to instantly break free of the stun while having a 7 second speed boost. Hey guys, I heard Ninjas were just a tad overpowered, confirmed?

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

Hey guys, I heard Ninjas were just a tad overpowered, confirmed?

Confirmed.

 

[malikdanab]

The most idiotic ironic thing about Ninja is that if they just so happened to become stunned, they can use EscapeArtist to instantly break free of the stun while having a 7 second speed boost. Hey guys, I heard Ninjas were just a tad overpowered, confirmed?

I think it makes sense that ninjas have Escape Artist. I don't see how it's ironic, but I do agree ninjas are overpowered atm.

*Edit* If you guys want to discuss and agree upon a list of changes, I'll propose them to the Balance Team.

 

[Keache]

My suggestion plx I think they're sound (coming from the guy who made them).

 

[malikdanab]

Side Note: Why do Bards have more HP than Paladins?

 

[malikdanab]

This post will be the basis to which I will make my proposal

Ninja's Health:
Decreased Base from 646 to 615-625 (For Reference- Runeblade: 595, Ranger: 634, and Bard: 674)
Blackjack:

• Can only be used if you are sneaking/invisible
• Base reduced to 0.75 sec stun
• If used from behind 1.0-1.25 sec stun

Any input and suggestions ( Which i agree with) will be edited into the list.

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

I think it makes sense that ninjas have Escape Artist. I don't see how it's ironic, but I do agree ninjas are overpowered atm.

I'm just saying, Ninjas have so many tools it's insane. If a Ninja tried to give another Ninja a taste of it's own medicine by blackjacking him, then he can just instantly get out of blackjack with EscapeArtist... It's just frustrating beyond belief that a class can be handed every skill in the game to help them succeed.

*Patch Notes : Ninjas renamed to Zo.

 

[malikdanab]

I'm just saying, Ninjas have so many tools it's insane. If a Ninja tried to give another Ninja a taste of it's own medicine by blackjacking him, then he can just instantly get out of blackjack with EscapeArtist... It's just frustrating beyond belief that a class can be handed every skill in the game to help them succeed.

*Patch Notes : Ninjas renamed to Zo.

In the case of escape artist, maybe it should be made to no longer give a speed buff.

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

Ninja's Health:
Decreased Base from 646 to 615-625 (For Reference- Runeblade: 595, Ranger: 634, and Bard: 674)

That solves nothing. You're nerfing it's base health by 31HP... This means that instead of a Ninja's health being 902HP at level 65 with 0 points into constitution, it'll be at 871. Current Ninjas on the server who have, for example, 1,060 HP will now 'only' have 1,029 HP. I don't think that's the hard HP nerf that people have been demanding.

The problem is two things :
Ninjas get a 4HP increase per level (Same as all Rogues)
Constitution is giving Ninjas too much HP.

902HP without putting a single point into constitution is too much. I'm of the opinion that if a Ninja wants to even touch 900HP that they'd have to put a good amount of points into Constitution... 950HP being next to impossible. Perhaps an increase of 2.5-3 HP should occur for every point a Ninja puts into Constitution.

Just throwing numbers out there, if a Ninja's HP was 830 at level 65 with 0 constitution and had an increase of 3HP per point put into Con it would require 24 Constitution to get to 902 HP.