Balance Team Meeting: Mondays @ 6PM CST

[LordZelkova]

Yeah from what I stated in the thread, it doesn't matter if they missed it as long as they are within the buff radius throughout the duration. It's not like Beguiler's clarity if you missed the initial use of the skill, you won't get the buff at all. Also, even if you were within the initial use of the songs, the buff will get removed if you get out of range.

Manasong and battlesong are not mana/stam regen or wisdom/enduran buff skills, they're songs that give flat mana/stamina. It's like how Healingbloom and HolyAura functions. As long as you stay within the healing radius, it will heal you. But if you leave, it won't even if you were initially within the radius when it was first used.

Unless I am completely wrong on that, so someone should go test it to clarify.

Alright, from testing:
You have to be in range to get effect, doesn't matter when you get in range however.
Leaving range loses the effect.

So, how do we want to do this?
I can remove the color and adjust the CD or leave them as they are.
Both are just QoL changes, and are simple for me to do now on test and have someone push later.

 

[Pugglez_]

Just adjust the cooldown to match with the duration (16s I think). That way its easier for Bards so they won't be wasting mana/stam when they havent even used the songs to their fill duration.

 

[Kainzo]

No need for meeting, but I made all the Bard buffs have color to them, if we wanna push that to live from test, for anyone that can.

did you change the repo?

 

[LordZelkova]

did you change the repo?

I lack access (And if I'm supposed to have it, I have no idea what the login could be. I've tried LordZelkova, Zelkova, my email, like 5 passwords), and made these changes on the Test FTP in the skills.yml
It's what I've been given access to. I can cease using that, and do git once i can get in if you wish.


Also, @Balance Team
Should we adjust the CD for Bard songs to last their length, or just leave the colors?

 

[Egorh]

I lack access (And if I'm supposed to have it, I have no idea what the login could be. I've tried LordZelkova, Zelkova, my email, like 5 passwords), and made these changes on the Test FTP in the skills.yml
It's what I've been given access to. I can cease using that, and do git once i can get in if you wish.


Also, @Balance Team
Should we adjust the CD for Bard songs to last their length, or just leave the colors?

It was already decided to keep the cooldowns as they are and add the colors, no? Needs testing in game before you throw the idea out of the window

 

[LordZelkova]

It was already decided to keep the cooldowns as they are and add the colors, no? Needs testing in game before you throw the idea out of the window

I haven't changed a thing aside from adding colors as discussed.
I also don't see how increasing the CD to match their length would require extensive testing.

 

[LordZelkova]

I've asked Witch to push the color Changes.
We can discuss raising their CD's to match their length if Pugglez wishes.

 

[PewPewPewLasers]

we decided it would not be beneficial to raise the cd to match the length, if I have to type out all the points on why I will but I thought we agreed on just changing the colours and keeping the cds all the same

 

[LordZelkova]

we decided it would not be beneficial to raise the cd to match the length, if I have to type out all the points on why I will but I thought we agreed on just changing the colours and keeping the cds all the same

Thing is, the way it was explained to me, it sounded like you only got the buff if you were in range when it STARTED, so having the lower CD was beneficial, as if you missed someone you could use it again to give them it, Accelerando seems to be the exception from my testing. Warsong is hard to test however.
However that is NOT the case. You get the bonus as long as you're within range at ANY POINT.

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

I've asked Witch to push the color Changes.

did you change the repo?

Repo changed.

 

[PewPewPewLasers]

Thing is, the way it was explained to me, it sounded like you only got the buff if you were in range when it STARTED, so having the lower CD was beneficial, as if you missed someone you could use it again to give them it.
However that is NOT the case. You get the bonus as long as you're within range at ANY POINT.

i was not aware that was how it works, but it is still beneficial to have the cooldown's where they're at now though. If Bard didn't have the cooldowns it has right now on its buffs, it would make stamina and mana management a lot harder and the class would feel a lot clunkier in fights. The way it is right now is perfect

 

[LordZelkova]

i was not aware that was how it works, but it is still beneficial to have the cooldown's where they're at now though. If Bard didn't have the cooldowns it has right now on its buffs, it would make stamina and mana management a lot harder and the class would feel a lot clunkier in fights. The way it is right now is perfect

How so? Casting Manasong early is a waste of Mana if anything.
I'm curious to know, I haven't touched Bard for a while, and PvP even less.

 

[Egorh]

How so? Casting Manasong early is a waste of Mana if anything.
I'm curious to know, I haven't touched Bard for a while, and PvP even less.

If someone wants to get perfect management of their skills it should be done through someone paying more attention (not using it right when the CD is up). Keeping it in will be giving bard a slightly more 'skilled' way to play. Making the CD's the same is going to make everyone get perfect management from just spamming their keys

 

[LordZelkova]

If Bard didn't have the cooldowns it has right now on its buffs, it would make stamina and mana management a lot harder and the class would feel a lot clunkier in fights.

If someone wants to get perfect management of their skills it should be done through someone paying more attention (not using it right when the CD is up). Keeping it in will be giving bard a slightly more 'skilled' way to play. Making the CD's the same is going to make everyone get perfect management from just spamming their keys

These are contradictory.
How would raising the CD's make it clunky but also make Stam/Mana regen perfect?

 

[Egorh]

These are contradictory.
How would raising the CD's make it clunky but also make Stam/Mana regen perfect?

I don't have much experience playing bard so I do not know how it makes it clunky but having the cooldowns match means you don't have a chance of wasting any regen ticks (unless the global CD stops you)

 

[PewPewPewLasers]

These are contradictory.
How would raising the CD's make it clunky but also make Stam/Mana regen perfect?

there are a lot of situations as a bard where you have to plan ahead to ensure you can get off the correct abilities at the correct times, while also keeping your buffs up. The idea is to have a 100% uptime on your buffs, so if you're in the middle of a fight where you're chasing someone, or saving your kick/voidsong for an interrupt, these little stalls in time during a fight is when you should be refreshing your buffs. If you have to wait the full 18 seconds or whatever it is to renew your buffs, that means that you have to cast them at that exact time to keep up the 100% uptime; that means that during these idol periods or idol situations in fights, you're not going to end up filling this gap with anything, because you're trying to make sure you will have enough mana/stam for when they run out, as opposed to making sure you have enough mana/stam for your core abilities. Bard buff management is something that is important, but warsong and manasong should not be the priority of a bard's rotation, meaning that when the cooldown is 5 or 6 seconds it gives you that wiggle room to lace them into your normal rotation. I'm VERY sleep deprived right now, so I hope this explanation makes sense.

 

[LordZelkova]

there are a lot of situations as a bard where you have to plan ahead to ensure you can get off the correct abilities at the correct times, while also keeping your buffs up. The idea is to have a 100% uptime on your buffs, so if you're in the middle of a fight where you're chasing someone, or saving your kick/voidsong for an interrupt, these little stalls in time during a fight is when you should be refreshing your buffs. If you have to wait the full 18 seconds or whatever it is to renew your buffs, that means that you have to cast them at that exact time to keep up the 100% uptime; that means that during these idol periods or idol situations in fights, you're not going to end up filling this gap with anything, because you're trying to make sure you will have enough mana/stam for when they run out, as opposed to making sure you have enough mana/stam for your core abilities. Bard buff management is something that is important, but warsong and manasong should not be the priority of a bard's rotation, meaning that when the cooldown is 5 or 6 seconds it gives you that wiggle room to lace them into your normal rotation. I'm VERY sleep deprived right now, so I hope this explanation makes sense.

This explains why it would be clunky at max CD, and I'm inclined to agree.
The ability to choose when to rebuff is quite handy it seems. I'm just trying to see every side of this.

 

[Pugglez_]

there are a lot of situations as a bard where you have to plan ahead to ensure you can get off the correct abilities at the correct times, while also keeping your buffs up. The idea is to have a 100% uptime on your buffs, so if you're in the middle of a fight where you're chasing someone, or saving your kick/voidsong for an interrupt, these little stalls in time during a fight is when you should be refreshing your buffs. If you have to wait the full 18 seconds or whatever it is to renew your buffs, that means that you have to cast them at that exact time to keep up the 100% uptime; that means that during these idol periods or idol situations in fights, you're not going to end up filling this gap with anything, because you're trying to make sure you will have enough mana/stam for when they run out, as opposed to making sure you have enough mana/stam for your core abilities. Bard buff management is something that is important, but warsong and manasong should not be the priority of a bard's rotation, meaning that when the cooldown is 5 or 6 seconds it gives you that wiggle room to lace them into your normal rotation. I'm VERY sleep deprived right now, so I hope this explanation makes sense.

That does make sense actually. I only played Bard solo with brief pvp experience, so I never knew much about rotations of a Bard