Suggestion Balance Super Post

[Kethale]

I agree with everything and as a master bard especially agree with the bards health, and the druid comparisons.

 

[Bighappy227]

Two things I feel are going to be a problem with beguilers.

1 - Mass piggify is most effective when used on multiple targets so you can throw a plague bomb in the air and hit multiple people guaranteed (which will be much harder now with a plague bomb warm-up). This means that the skill is extremely situational when used to its full potential, and will be difficult, if not impossible to land now with a 1.5s warmup and its semi-small block radius. I recommend reducing the warmup to 0.5s - 1s, or reversing the warmup times on piggify (much easier to land) and mass piggify.

2 - Beguilers originally could blow people up in two combos with one or two fireballs between. At the end of that burst, I would go oom with around 30 intellect, 15 wisdom and the skill wisdom. If these new skills are added, and only one is removed there will be much more mana spent by the beguiler. I believe beguilers could see some harsh mana problems if this is the case. I would recommend decreasing mana costs on the spells for a beguiler if this happens (which it most likely will).

 

[Kethale]

Two things I feel are going to be a problem with beguilers.

1 - Mass piggify is most effective when used on multiple targets so you can throw a plague bomb in the air and hit multiple people guaranteed (which will be much harder now with a plague bomb warm-up). This means that the skill is extremely situational when used to its full potential, and will be difficult, if not impossible to land now with a 1.5s warmup and its semi-small block radius. I recommend reducing the warmup to 0.5s - 1s, or reversing the warmup times on piggify (much easier to land) and mass piggify.

2 - Beguilers originally could blow people up in two combos with one or two fireballs between. At the end of that burst, I would go oom with around 30 intellect, 15 wisdom and the skill wisdom. If these new skills are added, and only one is removed there will be much more mana spent by the beguiler. I believe beguilers could see some harsh mana problems if this is the case. I would recommend decreasing mana costs on the spells for a beguiler if this happens (which it most likely will).

I don't see how you can say this with wisdom attributes and the wisdom skill, I have used beguiler and done just fine with mana.

 

[Glacial_Reign]

I don't see how you can say this with wisdom attributes and the wisdom skill, I have used beguiler and done just fine with mana.

Clearly you're not good at beguiler and using the skills right. Beguiler has mana problems but with the mana problems comes with the huge bang of the aoes.

 

[malikdanab]

The reason beguilers run low on mana is that they are doing their damage TOO quickly. With that said, if we rework beguiler (I really hope we do...) we will go over all Damage/Cooldown/Mana numbers and adjust them to fit a more support role, rather than a burst mage. The list I made are more concepts and me expressing my opinion than actual changes that will happen to beguiler.

Not to come off as a jerk, but you are whining about "Oh I have mana problems" when you can 2-1 people in a minute.

 

[malikdanab]

Two things I feel are going to be a problem with beguilers.

1 - Mass piggify is most effective when used on multiple targets so you can throw a plague bomb in the air and hit multiple people guaranteed (which will be much harder now with a plague bomb warm-up). This means that the skill is extremely situational when used to its full potential, and will be difficult, if not impossible to land now with a 1.5s warmup and its semi-small block radius. I recommend reducing the warmup to 0.5s - 1s, or reversing the warmup times on piggify (much easier to land) and mass piggify.

2 - Beguilers originally could blow people up in two combos with one or two fireballs between. At the end of that burst, I would go oom with around 30 intellect, 15 wisdom and the skill wisdom. If these new skills are added, and only one is removed there will be much more mana spent by the beguiler. I believe beguilers could see some harsh mana problems if this is the case. I would recommend decreasing mana costs on the spells for a beguiler if this happens (which it most likely will).

A support skill that's hard to use? Takes positioning now and not a win button? Oh sorry me! I must keep in mind that people want easy to play class, instead of thinking how to use each of it's skills effectively based on the situation.

Stop thinking of beguiler as a damage class, it's not. If we where to apply these changes it would change beguiler into a support mage. I want to change beguiler from one of the easiest classes to an actual trickster. It will need skill and finesse to play.

 

[RagingDragon5]

A support skill that's hard to use? Takes positioning now and not a win button? Oh sorry me! I must keep in mind that people want easy to play class, instead of thinking how to use each of it's skills effectively based on the situation.

Was that part really necessary? This is on the suggestions page, and he was giving a suggestion while explaining the reason and without being rude. What was the reason for this rude response? It wasn't needed and inappropriate.

 

[Kethale]

Clearly you're not good at beguiler and using the skills right. Beguiler has mana problems but with the mana problems comes with the huge bang of the aoes.

@RagingDragon5 Im surprised you didn't comment on this beyond rude statement.

 

[RagingDragon5]

@RagingDragon5 Im surprised you didn't comment on this beyond rude statement.

Sorry I missed it. I don't know why it is so hard to treat people with respect that we want to be treated with.

 

[lioIIoil]

Bolt is a single-target nuke, has a warmup.
Plaguebomb is an AoE nuke, no warmup.

I agree with the warmup on Plaguebomb.

But thats beguilers main damage skill.

 

[Kethale]

But thats beguilers main damage skill.

The point is it shouldn't be, fireball,bonespear,chaos orb. Main damage skills.

 

[malikdanab]

Sorry I missed it. I don't know why it is so hard to treat people with respect that we want to be treated with.

Yes my statement was "Rude," but that was my intention. I was mainly being snarky with him, because he was complaining about a non existent problem. He was also complaining about this crazy idea of classes having a drawback. People don't have to be tactful in a conversation, they have to explain and defend their case. As long as you are attacking the idea and not the person, I believe anything is fair game.

 

[RagingDragon5]

Yes my statement was "Rude," but that was my intention. I was mainly being snarky with him, because he was complaining about a non existent problem. He was also complaining about this crazy idea of classes having a drawback. People don't have to be tactful in a conversation, they have to explain and defend their case. As long as you are attacking the idea and not the person, I believe anything is fair game.

You can disagree with an idea without attacking it. Attacking something just because you don't like it seems childish, and we are better than that. While reading his post over again and your response, you made a mistake. Most likely a misunderstanding.

Stop thinking of beguiler as a damage class, it's not. If we where to apply these changes it would change beguiler into a support mage. I want to change beguiler from one of the easiest classes to an actual trickster. It will need skill and finesse to play.

He wasn't saying don't touch their damage or increase their damage. He was referring to how their mana is quickly used.A support class shouldn't run out of mana fast. I never played beguiler so I don't know how fast heir mana actually gets depleted, but it seems pretty fast. Also he didn't say get rid of the warmups either, he was just suggesting different warmup times. You say he complained about a nonexistent problem. However, he didn't complain he was stating what he believes is an issue with beguilers which someone did agree with and someone didn't agree with so it is worth looking into.

 

[RagingDragon5]

There will always be multiples sides to a discussion, and it is important to respect everyone opinions. It's more persuading to give reasons why you disagree with something rather than attacking it out of spite.

 

[malikdanab]

There will always be multiples sides to a discussion, and it is important to respect everyone opinions. It's more persuading to give reasons why you disagree with something rather than attacking it out of spite.

Oh I do, I just hate beguilers. Now, can we stop with the derailing?

 

[RagingDragon5]

Oh I do, I just hate beguilers. Now, can we stop with the derailing?

This is not an attack. As you being on the balance team, I feel you shouldn't let personal opinions like hating a class or a class being your favorite affect on how you want to change them.

Yes we can stop.

 

[malikdanab]

This is not an attack. As you being on the balance team, I feel you shouldn't let personal opinions like hating a class or a class being your favorite affect on how you want to change them.

Yes we can stop.

I hate the class that's WHY I want to fix them. There mana problems derive from the fact that their skills act like a burst class, but they don't have the base stats to support it (100 less base mana and 3/4 mana regen than wizard). It's not that his particular statement ticked my off it's the fact that I just get tired of people complaining about a classes problems when that is a design decision.

That said, IDK when we are going to get a chance to fix beguiler since everyone is focusing on Shaman atm. I'd like to go in order of easiest to balance to hardest (So we can get more changes out quicker), but that would delay Magi towards the end.

PS. You username is a lie and I feel confused about it.

 

[RagingDragon5]

I hate the class that's WHY I want to fix them. There mana problems derive from the fact that their skills act like a burst class, but they don't have the base stats to support it (100 less base mana and 3/4 mana regen than wizard). It's not that his particular statement ticked my off it's the fact that I just get tired of people complaining about a classes problems when that is a design decision.

That said, IDK when we are going to get a chance to fix beguiler since everyone is focusing on Shaman atm. I'd like to go in order of easiest to balance to hardest (So we can get more changes out quicker), but that would delay Magi towards the end.

Yea Shaman seems like it might take awhile to make it somewhat balanced. I think I remember Kainzo stating that Beguilers was supposed to be a shape shifter type class. So I was thinking maybe adding skills which would change the form of the player for like 15 to 30s and they get a passive skills and a action skill while in that form only.
Examples:
Chicken - Passive= No fall damage Action= Egg toss ( does x damage while doing y debuff for z seconds).
Wolf - Passive: Speed 1 or Attack bonus Action= Scratch/Bite (Probably can think of something better.
Squid( Must be in water)- Passive = Underwater breathing/ Swim faster in water Action= I don't know.
I don't know if this is a good idea or not, but I thought it would be a pretty cool idea.

PS. You username is a lie and I feel confused about it.

LOL I know. I'm actually a pretty calm person. When I was younger I thought this was a cool name. I also don't like like having a lot of usernames so I don't forget them. I eventually made a another name for a game called Phantasy Star Universe because I felt like i needed more of an RPG name. If I knew I would of been playing an RP server for minecraft I would of named it my second one.

 

[RagingDragon5]

Ranger is in a pretty good spot atm. It has some problems, but I think a much easier to fix than something like beguiler:

• ExplosiveShot: Currently the skill is very powerful, but is a little to spammy and too easy to use.
• CD: Increase from 17->20
• Radius: Decrease from 4->3
• Add warm-up: 1 second

The next problem is AimedShot. While I think the skill is fine itself, the ability to shoot arrows while it warms-up shouldn't be allowed. To be honest I think the is a bug (Melee and other skills cancel it) and should be fixed.

Lastly I have a problem with Ranger's health. It's currently too high for a rogue. It's current 630 HP is tied with paladin making it relatively tanky. What I suggest:

• Reduce HP: 630-> 580

I'm saying this through my own personal experiencing as a Ranger and fighting other rangers. I agree that Ranger is in a pretty good spot, but I feel like most Rangers (Including me) uses ExplosiveShot and AimedShot as their main damage output and their kill output. I usually hit the target I draw my bow at, but I still rely on the skills that doesn't take aim to much which really doesn't make sense for a class that is supposed to be a marksman/sharpshooter type deal. I think the skills are very good, but can use some improvements so it's not the main damage.
Explosive: CD: 25 or 30
Radius: 4
Warmup: 1 second
Reagent: 1 gunpowder

Aimed: CD: 30 or 35 (depending on explosive), also keep the cancel thing you mentioned

To balance the high cooldown of those two skills envenom can be used to counter these high cooldowns.

Envenom: Make it last longer and reduce the cooldown a little bit.

I feel like this will fix the problem of people not relying on aim that much to fight.



On a different note for ranger: I think Icevolley should be changed a little bit. Ranger was changed so it wouldn't be an arcane ranger. My suggestion would be change the name to CripplingShot to fit the idea a little better, it would have the same effect but I think it should be 1 shot not multiple at once.

Also I think they should add a skill MultiShot. It would shoot multiple arrows, but the player would have a choice either to shoot them normally for normal damage. Or infuse it with a different skill like Crippling shot, Envenom, or ExplosiveShot (For a bigger aoe). However, I'm not sure if this idea is Overpowered or not.

 

[malikdanab]

I
On a different note for ranger: I think Icevolley should be changed a little bit. Ranger was changed so it wouldn't be an arcane ranger. My suggestion would be change the name to CripplingShot to fit the idea a little better, it would have the same effect but I think it should be 1 shot not multiple at once.

Also I think they should add a skill MultiShot. It would shoot multiple arrows, but the player would have a choice either to shoot them normally for normal damage. Or infuse it with a different skill like Crippling shot, Envenom, or ExplosiveShot (For a bigger aoe). However, I'm not sure if this idea is Overpowered or not.

Just the concept of multiple explosive shots screams "OP" to me (It could be done, but would be such a headache to balance.)

Though, this does remind me of an old idea I had. How it would work is make envenom not work on arrows (It's pretty bad on arrows anyway) then give different toggle-able arrows to choose from:

• Piercing shot: Low damage, but pierces armor (Something like 65% damage)
• Crippling Shot: Lower Damage, but slows the target (Very mild slow since we don't want another "Ice Arrow" fiasco)
• Puncturing Shot: Lower Base damage, but applies a bleed effect (85% initial + 35% bleed)
• Multi Shot: Low Base Damage, but shoots multiple arrows (5-6 arrows at 25% damage)
• Standard Shot: You basic arrow with the highest base damage and now special effects.

This would require the removal of ice volley, but i don't believe it would make ranger "OP" since they could only use one arrow at a time.