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Balance Meeting

0xNaomi

Wiki Team
Coder
Balance Team
Tier 6
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Likes
120
#21
Suggested Changes for Friday so far:
-Remove shield from beguiler
-Increase Jump cooldown from 7.5-9
-Increase Jump stamina cost from 350-400
-Replaced Superjump with Dragonsmash
-Lowered Tremor's knockback
-Lower ninja's shear damage from 45-35
-Increase Backflip's cooldown from 6-6.5
-Increase bard's music disc damage from 25-30
Not all of these were implemented during the meeting, so I went through and did them now.
Two notes:
  1. Jump's stamina cost was actually 300. I changed it to 400 regardless.
  2. I increased the damage on all Bard nonstandard weapons (not just discs) as the numbers were identical.
 

xexorian

Admin ZeeZo
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Architect
Boss Scripter
Joined
Apr 7, 2011
Likes
417
Location
Georgia, USA
#22
- Remove Warp from Spec'd profs, will encourage ports and exploration via herogates. If warp has to stay, increase cost back to emeralds at least, redstone is too cheap.
This is a minor change should be easy enough. I agree with this shit tho. JUST. DO. IT.
- Consider overhaul of Farmer skill numbers and mechanic. Breeding should be restricted, chance for more mobs should be increased, and a skill for gathering meat should be implemented similar to Herbalism.
Also agree.
- Consider adding in naming items on smith, with reagent of name tag. Chat Rules and etc apply. I assume we still have the skill lying around, and could add the reagent to it.
WANT. Name Tag would be a crate reward, or something, although super rare?
- Replace Light on miner with literally anything, it is incredibly underwhelming, especially once you have DarkVision.
Replace it with nothing for all I care, this is 100% true and has been true since. well, forever. Fucking axe it. Please. For the love of god.
- Remove the ability to wield swords form Smith. Allows classes that normally shouldn't have access to KB to use it (Especially helpful on classes like Beguiler/Necro/Druid, who want to Kite)
AXEEEEEEEEEEEE this shit. Right in the face. So tired of it breaking class balance at this point I'm reading this going, WHY haven't we done this yet? That's when you know to axe something. Right in the face. Twice. Till it's dead.
Also seems there's some talk of Bard needing some changes. I'd love to talk about those.
Possible changes:

- Rework to either be moved to Support path and no longer a Rogue subtype, or added damage to fit Rogue with loss of some support potential.
I don't know about this. Was there a change in base paths? "Support Path" being a thing now?
- Small Melee increase (Remove Bow Usage in favor of Damage)
I think bard shouldn't use bows. Why would they? They're not a ranged melee support build. Pick one.
- Armor / Health Buff to help defend against focusing
Or replace some utility with a self defensive skill. Even a light self heal on a decent cooldown can do a lot to increase "Effective" HP while battling. Especially in open world. Since running around and such would allow you to heal up the longer you can get away. Just a thought, dont have to do that though.
- Lower CD on Kick, to allow a single target skill to be used regularly
Hmm. Or...
I am not saying do all of these (That would break Bard), but just some ideas to play with. I feel like bard doesn't have a clear purpose.
I really think that we should pick a role for bard to play, with regards to melee and ranged attacks. We should either make them use bows optimally, or not at all. Secondly, Bard should have it's skills change to reflect this. If it becomes a melee class we should give bard a sort of bursty single target note damage skill. As in, like a 'smite' ability. It could even just be a DoT, and replace their loss of being able to use a bow.

Like a 15 block range DoT with somewhere between light to medium damage. Maybe 100% of dmg over 10 seconds. ticking once every 2 seconds (for 20% dmg.)

Also; I think we need to talk about swing speeds for all classes and rebalance Axes.

Let's say a Diamond Sword has a base damage of 100, but in 1.9 they gave Sword a swing timer.
http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Sword#Attacking

According to this, swords have a recover time and attack speed time, please read this;
http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Damage#Attack_cooldown

Which, means if you swing every 0.60 seconds with a sword, and an axe, the axe will do almost 50% less damage than it's normal full damage. You guys need to take this into account with calculating for weapon damage changes on classes that use axes. ALSO; you should be calculating it for lost soul and other classes that get the weaker axes. Another thing; skill damage shouldn't be affected, it should go by the balance team's "POWER" formula that was posted by Kainzo. Skills can be balanced with some work by using this formula to find the numbers you need to bring them all in line with each other. If the formula makes certain mechanics OP, we can adjust the formula and then re-adjust all the skills based on it. Pretty simple, right? Just a lot of work.

EDIT: the reason I said this is important is because DIAMOND AXES cooldown faster than WOODEN AXES, so a noob using a basic weapon actually is doing like 40% of normal dmg instead of the higher 51% in our given scenario up above. Making it even more painful to deal with. So please, make sure you adjust numbers accordingly. TL;DR 40% of nothing is nothing. 51% of okay is shit. Don't hurt ze noobs.

EDIT2: Regarding CRITICAL HITS:
You can't critically hit if you swing TOO FAST!
The base attack must not be reduced to 84.8% damage or lower due to cooldown.
You can't "SWEEP ATTACK" if you are RUNNING!
Etc.

Please consider all of these new game mechanics as well. Don't assume swords are OP because they get sweep attacks in all situations. That's only actually true if you stop chasing and start fighting someone while moving at NORMAL WALKING speed.

Also take note that DAMAGE IMMUNITY has a peculiar trait most people don't know about.
The base attack must not be reduced to 84.8% damage or lower due to cooldown.

It is also worth noting that Diamond Hoes are supposed to do 4 DPS but cannot due to DAMAGE IMMUNITY, doing only 1 damage, they have the highest attack speed in the game at 4 attacks per second at full damage.

IF we ever allow 'wands' to be a thing and let casters right click with them and reset their swing, it would be amazing to see casters launch a volley of magic at their foes, even if it doesn't do a lot of damage or has 0 knockback on the player. I would love to be able to have short range arcane bolts come out of my hoe as a ranged attack that costs no mana and is spammable. (Again while having 0 knockback, you'd have to run and gun to make it work in PvE, and in PvP you wouldn't be able to be focused to use it + friends could nullify it's projectile.)
 
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Jrr_

Architect
Balance Team
Adventure Team
Tier 3
Joined
Oct 27, 2012
Likes
150
Location
Straya
#23
I don't play dragoon but I have received complaints about superjump being crappy. I tested with someone and it is only 18 blocks high on tier 1. I don't know about you guys but that seems very underwhelming. To stop it from being abused in pvp, simply don't allow it to be used in combat. I recon at least increasing it to 25-30 blocks makes the skill a little better. Not completely sure on how people would like this. @Balance Team ???
 
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Likes
133
#24
I don't play dragoon but I have received complaints about superjump being crappy. I tested with someone and it is only 18 blocks high on tier 1. I don't know about you guys but that seems very underwhelming. To stop it from being abused in pvp, simply don't allow it to be used in combat. I recon at least increasing it to 25-30 blocks makes the skill a little better. Not completely sure on how people would like this. @Balance Team ???
Too high 18 blocks is fine especially now that it does damage on the way down.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Likes
154
Location
Arizona
#27
I won't be there, but I'll throw in what was talked about before that nobody has mentioned since.

- Buffing Farmer exp gain (currently VERY slow leveling compared to other professions even with a 200% boost and decent sized farm)
- Either remove the cooldown on Blacksmith's Deconstruct or reduce significantly it so it is not a long cooldown like it is now.

- Look over the skills Druid gains at certain levels again. Leveling is terrible until level 40(It's still bad after 40).
 

LordZelkova

Ashen One...
Tier 8
Joined
Jul 3, 2011
Likes
358
#28
I won't be there, but I'll throw in what was talked about before that nobody has mentioned since.

- Buffing Farmer exp gain (currently VERY slow leveling compared to other professions even with a 200% boost and decent sized farm)
- Either remove the cooldown on Blacksmith's Deconstruct or reduce significantly it so it is not a long cooldown like it is now.

- Look over the skills Druid gains at certain levels again. Leveling is terrible until level 40(It's still bad after 40).
I feel like we need to dedicate a meeting (Or at least some time) to just balancing profs.
 

Kainzo

The Disposable Hero
Staff member
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Jan 7, 2011
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7,539
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The 7th Circle of Heaven
#30
I direly think we need a better Profession skill pack. Maybe more destructive block removal for Miner that checks regions/etc.

I need some devs to come up with some insightful things, im tapped out in the creativity department in terms of professions haha....
 

LordZelkova

Ashen One...
Tier 8
Joined
Jul 3, 2011
Likes
358
#31
I direly think we need a better Profession skill pack. Maybe more destructive block removal for Miner that checks regions/etc.

I need some devs to come up with some insightful things, im tapped out in the creativity department in terms of professions haha....
Not a dev, so I don't know the feasibility but:

Skill that has a chance to increase drops from passive mobs for Farmer

Skill that Takes Enchanted Books and uses the 1st Enchantment and applies to that tool (Would bypass normal restrictions. Think of this as the Anvil replacement. Would be for Enchanters, not Smiths.

Skill that takes 9 Seeds and plants them around the Farmer.

I dunno, it's 1am and I'm still playing minecraft so I'm outta ideas.
 
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Likes
183
#33
I won't be there, but I'll throw in what was talked about before that nobody has mentioned since.

- Buffing Farmer exp gain (currently VERY slow leveling compared to other professions even with a 200% boost and decent sized farm)
- Either remove the cooldown on Blacksmith's Deconstruct or reduce significantly it so it is not a long cooldown like it is now.

- Look over the skills Druid gains at certain levels again. Leveling is terrible until level 40(It's still bad after 40).
Druid leveling really isn't that bad... I thought it was actually really nice, just my thoughts.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Likes
154
Location
Arizona
#34
Druid leveling really isn't that bad... I thought it was actually really nice, just my thoughts.
All you have is Ire really and that is like 200 damage every 10 seconds. Other than that you have nothing until 40. If you're in like a group, sure it's not bad. That's the case for all classes. When I leveling druid, I leveled off pigmen and had to resort to using EarthWall to suffocate them. Maybe people I leveled with didn't have enough aoe or I didnt have enough people help me level. All I am suggesting really is to obtain Fulminate and/or Innervate a bit sooner. I know it's maybe not the best comparison since Druid is a healer, but Wizard gets replenish at lvl 5 and bolt at lvl 30.
 
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