Suggestion Balance Changes

[Egorh]

These changes have been in the Balance Team subforums for at least 2 weeks (some of them at least; I put in more changes/different changes in over time) and since I created this list from my own experiences (and some community input) the rest of community needs to voice their opinions (reasoning, etc.).

Some of these changes may also be 'not needed' but are there to bring more attention to underplayed classes

Paladin

• Strike: Reduce base damage by 10, and 15 on the DOT
  • Or fix the DOT duration so it goes over 15s like it should and not 3s
• Divine Stun: 15s increase on the cooldown

Disciple

• Remove interrupt on Forcepush
• Increase Chakra cooldown to 15s
• Balance out the healing between yourself and allies on FistofJin (right now FistofJin heals more to yourself than allies)
• Reduce Ironfist scaling: 1.5 damage per strength to 0.75 damage per strength
• Resolve the 'stun' issue with Seikuken

Shaman

• Although I know that it needs a rework we don't have enough time for testing and such before the wipe. It needs something and this would probably suffice in the meantime
• Increase range on Firestrike totem by 5 blocks
• Give Force totem another affect (nausea)

Dragoon

• Fix Strike
  • Instead of fixing it to 15s, fix it to 10s (Dragoon's strike should be a bit better than Paladin's)
• Reduce stamina cost on Impale by 100
• Increase Impale slow duration by 2s (3s -> 5s)
• @0xNaomi is there a way to make Dragondash a more reliable skill. From what I've seen and heard it is not worth using because of how 'buggy' it is

Ninja

• Give Blitz another effect to deal more damage to the tanky people (scale with armor or HP) or give it another skill that will accomplish the same thing

Beguiler

• Give MassPiggify a 1s warmup
• Remove Entangle (I honestly do not know why it still has this skill; when it first got it, it was a filler for piggify)
• Increase Piggify CD by 5

Bloodmage

• Make it so the self heal reduction does not apply to Infusion
• Reduce base boil blood damage: Initial 15, DOT, 15
• Increase cooldown on boil blood by 10s (up to 20s)
• Increase cooldown on combust blood by 4s (up to 10s)
• Change Blood Bond to only cost extra mana on skill use
  • Combust Blood: 75 extra mana
  • Siphon Blood: 75 extra mana
  • Boil Blood: 150 extra mana

Berserker

• Resolve 'stun' issue with Whirlwind

Dreadknight

• Change Soulleech healing if it is dispelled
  • Have it heal per tick instead of having a larger heal at the end of the duration (if it gets dispelled you still got some healing out of it)
  • Or when Soulleech is dispelled have it heal using the same mechanic as right now; the only difference is that the heal would only go off of how much damage was dealt before it was dispelled

Cleric

• Reduce duration of Guardian Angel by 1s (3s -> 2s)
• Reduce mana cost of GA by 75 (350 mana -> 275 mana)
• Reduce wisdom scaling of Divine Blessing to 2.75
• Increase wisdom scaling of Holy Water to 2.25 (you get a better heal for a more 'skillful' skill; you actually need to aim it)

Pyromancer

• Fix Doomwave (fires out 2 enderpearls instead of 20)
• Reduce stamina cost of Darkbolt by 100
• Increase the healing reduction of Darkbolt to 50% (from 25%)
• Reduce damage scaling on Darkbolt by 0.5 (1.5 -> 1)
• Reduce stamina cost of Dragons Breath by 50
• Reduce base damage on Chaos Orb by 15

 

[jazza411]

Why would you reduce base damage on chaosorb? It is already incredibly hard to hit without great combustion.

 

[Egorh]

Why would you reduce base damage on chaosorb? It is already incredibly hard to hit without great combustion.

Pyromancer is already a strong class without the changes mentioned above. The changes transition some of the damage into less stamina/skill level needed. Pyromancer is a very hit or miss class, most of your damage comes from a single combo that will bring you to 0 stamina. Taking away some of the damage on Chaos Orb means that you will not need to rely on it as much as you do right now.

As someone who played Pyromancer I would much rather have less stamina issues so I am not useless after a combo

 

[RoflcerOfDaLawl]

Just to clarify, the nerf on Dragoon's strike would only affect the time of the DOT not its damage nor strike's base damage?

Also, has there been any talk about reducing the stamina cost for jump and/or any other skills?

 

[Egorh]

Just to clarify, the nerf on Dragoon's strike would only affect the time of the DOT not its damage nor strike's base damage?

Also, has there been any talk about reducing the stamina cost for jump and/or any other skills?

Yep, only the DOT damage

And for reducing the stamina cost of other skills: I had it up there but some people commented that it was not needed. I could still see some slight stamina reductions (50 off of strike, 50 off of spear)

 

[PewPewPewLasers]

I think the issue from whirlwind stems from the jump boost given when you use the skill. I only say this because the stun only occurs when you're in the air (jump/knocked back)

 

[Egorh]

I think the issue from whirlwind stems from the jump boost given when you use the skill. I only say this because the stun only occurs when you're in the air (jump/knocked back)

I don't remember exactly where it was mentioned but someone said that the problem might be fixed if they used -agility instead of slowness.

For example:
The slowness II on whirlwind would be replaced by removing 30 agility (I don't know the exact number)

 

[Dakinara]

its not a huge balance thing (although it might be if 10 man groups come back), but i would like to see both cleric and druid get a little quality of life help in single target healing. Once that is in effect, i think some of the AOE healing in game could be turned down some, either in output or in radius.

The single target healing system is horrible because it nearly always self targets unless you macro peoples names. To me it would be much better if there was either a way to turn off self targeting with a toggle, or, if you want a more "skill based" system you could give both cleric and druid a short cooldown, ally-only (cant self cast) heal that cannot be macro-programmed to other people (like what was changed with damage skills awhile back) so they would have to directly target to heal. I dunno, anything really, single target healing system needs some kind of change though >.

 

[Egorh]

its not a huge balance thing (although it might be if 10 man groups come back), but i would like to see both cleric and druid get a little quality of life help in single target healing. Once that is in effect, i think some of the AOE healing in game could be turned down some, either in output or in radius.

The single target healing system is horrible because it nearly always self targets unless you macro peoples names. To me it would be much better if there was either a way to turn off self targeting with a toggle, or, if you want a more "skill based" system you could give both cleric and druid a short cooldown, ally-only (cant self cast) heal that cannot be macro-programmed to other people (like what was changed with damage skills awhile back) so they would have to directly target to heal. I dunno, anything really, single target healing system needs some kind of change though >.

Although the single targeting system could use some work I would rather see more skills like Bonespear, or Chaoticvisions, but for healing.

For Example:
Change rejuvanate to be a 'skill shot' AOE (ish) type of heal

 

[malikdanab]

Although the single targeting system could use some work I would rather see more skills like Bonespear, or Chaoticvisions, but for healing.

For Example:
Change rejuvanate to be a 'skill shot' AOE (ish) type of heal

1. Get Dragon's Breath
2. Color it green
3. Make it heal
4. Call it Healing/Soothing Winds
5. Give it to druid
6. ...
7. Balance?

 

[Egorh]

1. Get Dragon's Breath
2. Color it green
3. Make it heal
4. Call it Healing/Soothing Winds
5. Give it to druid
6. ...
7. Balance?

Pretty much, but without someone like @Delfofthebla to do it, it probably will not happen

 

[malikdanab]

Pretty much, but without someone like @Delfofthebla to do it, it probably will not happen

@0xNaomi could code it, but it's still up to kainzo to implement anything.

 

[Dakinara]

Although the single targeting system could use some work I would rather see more skills like Bonespear, or Chaoticvisions, but for healing.

For Example:
Change rejuvanate to be a 'skill shot' AOE (ish) type of heal

that is my preference too, but like ya said, without delf... T_T

But... i mean for simple short term solution, couldnt we just copy bloodgift from bloodmage, change a few numbers and give it to druid / cleric? its already got the ally-only programming enabled.

 

[Dakinara]

@0xNaomi could code it, but it's still up to kainzo to implement anything.

If naomi can do it, that would be great. I know the healing classes are not the most popular but they are important for pvp and i would love to see them get some quality-of-life changes (not necessarily buff or nerf, just ... single target healing system is so frustrating).

 

[Ahrall]

Overall I like the sound of these changes, good steps in the right direction for the most part. Few things I would add though:
Ninja:
An extra interrupt is not what the class needs. Blind, smoke, fade, and kick can all interrupt a warmup targeted on you, and kick is more than enough to handle self targeting warmups (such as heals)
What ninja needs is something to deal with other melee classes besides mindless shuriken spam. My suggestion either goes to add a short stun that does not scale so that we can utilize backstab (either at the end of blitz or perhaps garrote) or possibly buffing the damage on envenom in exchange for slightly less regular left click damage (to combat a warrior's vastly superior armor)

Pyro:
The damage on dark bolt is only around 90 so a damage nerf isn't super necessary, but I can support it if we get the stamina reduction. Personally, I like the high stamina costs of the class, it gives it a "burn very hot and very fast" type style that is uniquely different from other classes "push all the buttons!" type play style. However if we are going to reduce the stamina costs, and spell damage, we will need to increase damage elsewhere (say, chaotic strength?)

 

[Jrr_]

Chakra cool down should stay how it is at 11 seconds but just make it heal 75% to yourself and 100% to party members.

 

[malikdanab]

Chakra cool down should stay how it is at 11 seconds but just make it heal 75% to yourself and 100% to party members.

Increase CD to 12 because prime numbers are weird

 

[Egorh]

Chakra cool down should stay how it is at 11 seconds but just make it heal 75% to yourself and 100% to party members.

It already has that self heal debuff (25 Wisdom: 110 hp to party members, 77 hp to self). Anyways, the self heal on chakra is not the main problem; being able to give 110 hp and dispel a negative effect (on the short CD of 11s) is the strong point of the skill

 

[Dsawemd]

Sigh. @Epic_Samuri fuck it all, here's the thread to clutter with feedback.

On topic:
Beguiler: MassPiggify is an impactful skill but only lasts a short while, is on long CD, and has a situational radius for its Range. Are we sure it needs a warm-up? I'd rather see the class relinquish Entangle and check back afterwards.
DreadKnight: SoulLeech is designed to only heal after it expires. A better change would be that if dispelled, SL heals based on damage already done. The reason for this is so that the skill still requires planning to fit into the rotation. Besides Terror and Curse, Dk does not have many other skills they need to think about optimizing their timing with to be effective.

 

[Egorh]

Sigh. @Epic_Samuri fuck it all, here's the thread to clutter with feedback.

On topic:
Beguiler: MassPiggify is an impactful skill but only lasts a short while, is on long CD, and has a situational radius for its Range. Are we sure it needs a warm-up? I'd rather see the class relinquish Entangle and check back afterwards.
DreadKnight: SoulLeech is designed to only heal after it expires. A better change would be that if dispelled, SL heals based on damage already done. The reason for this is so that the skill still requires planning to fit into the rotation. Besides Terror and Curse, Dk does not have many other skills they need to think about optimizing their timing with to be effective.

MasspPiggify: Lets say the Beguiler has 10 charisma in their build. Then another 15 from splendor (the majority of beguilers use it most of the time because it only costs 5 gold). With 25 charisma masspiggify lasts 2.375s (information off of wiki). An AOE CC that interrupts, silences, and stuns until they are hit is a very powerful spell. Giving some 'counterplay' to Beguiler is what it needs (atm there is no real way to play against it)

Soulleech: Personally I think that it would be fine either way. The main goal I had in mind was making it so dispelling soulleech does not completely ruin Dreadknight's only 'sustain'

Edit: Included the other option to Dreaknight's soulleech in my main post