Suggestion Another resource map?

[zencow]

Shrine is incredibly unplayable due to it's lower rates and ridiculous terrain,

Can we have another map in the form of whitelist only like Warshard/Forgelight to hide on?

 

[Tyronus]

Thats why there is ruins! Ruins is an awesome resource map it has more soul drops than haven!

 

[Dsawemd]

Ruins

 

[Benji0904]

Shrine is incredibly unplayable due to it's lower rates and ridiculous terrain,

This.

 

[Joey_Beans]

Resources from ruins can only be taken to haven, he is asking about shrine.

 

[Tyronus]

Aahhhh i see

 

[Joey_Beans]

We were actually discussing this like a while ago in another topic, as it would be the easiest and least disruptive way to get new resources into the server whenever a MC update is rolled out (such as the new stone variants in 1.8), by just regenerating that map like was done with Ruins with the 1.7 update.
http://herocraftonline.com/main/threads/1-8-new-stone-variants-how-are-we-going-to-get-them.48899/

 

[zencow]

Thats why there is ruins! Ruins is an awesome resource map it has more soul drops than haven!

I agree, Ruins is a really great hideout and is generally safer than being on Haven despite it's ruleset due to the lack of transport options that deters people from tracking you. If someone's crying about being camped, I'd refer them to Ruins (not Shrine).

Resources from ruins can only be taken to haven, he is asking about shrine.

Not really, I'm just comparing with Bastion. There we had Bastion, Greyson, Warshard and Forgelight. Here we only have two maps to play on: Haven and Ruins, since Shrine doesn't count.

Currently with greylisted and whitelisted members sharing the same resource map and with mobs being harder as you travel further, it's quite a struggle for new players.

 

[Tyronus]

Kainzo will be adding the adventure map! soo hold your horses

 

[Joey_Beans]

So this isn't about a resource map at all, then... it seems like in the end what you basically want is a map that's for greylist players only.

 

[DEMOCALIBER]

So this isn't about a resource map at all, then... it seems like in the end what you basically want is a map that's for greylist players only.

...and if this is the case, said players need to just get Whitelisted...

 

[zencow]

So this isn't about a resource map at all, then... it seems like in the end what you basically want is a map that's for greylist players only.

The term 'resource map' refers to a map used to gather resources when the main map becomes drained. I was using the term to acknowledge Ruin's presence, hence I said I wanted "ANOTHER resource map" but obviously @Dsawemd and @Tyronus missed the reference.

And it's the other way round, I want a resource map that's free of grey-listed players.

Hope that clears things up.

 

[Dsawemd]

Shrine is incredibly unplayable due to it's lower rates and ridiculous terrain,

Can we have another map in the form of whitelist only like Warshard/Forgelight to hide on?

Shrine is the new Forgelight. FL always had extreme hills and oceans. Ruins is the new Warshard.

Shrine has less exp than forgelight and also has no pvp. I think the lack of Exp is worth the no-pvp, and the two differences balance out the incentive to play on the pve map.

Resources (non-souls) should be gathered at HIGHER rates for the PVE map, since the only real thing you can do on Shrine is level slowly or build.

As long as the items never make it out of Shrine, I think it would be appropriate to increase resource drops in Shrine, while maintaining reduced exp and soul drop chances.

@zencow , Shrine is a non-physical resource map ever since we moved to the Soul-System, and is only a physical resource map if you want to live in Shrine. Ruins functions as the "Resource Map" effectively. If you cannot survive the Greylisted LostSouls or find any friends to help protect your group while you mine, Zen, I suggest you go to Shrine, mine in safety, get souls, and then buy what you need in Haven.

Shrine should NOT share physical resources with other worlds, nor should it increase exp or soul drops so long as it is PVE, which is the entire point of Shrine, its PVE.

Another Resource map, whether open to Greylisters or not, would NOT have protection from griefing and would NOT share items with Shrine.

 

[zencow]

Shrine is the new Forgelight. FL always had extreme hills and oceans. Ruins is the new Warshard.

Shrine has less exp than forgelight and also has no pvp. I think the lack of Exp is worth the no-pvp, and the two differences balance out the incentive to play on the pve map.

Resources (non-souls) should be gathered at HIGHER rates for the PVE map, since the only real thing you can do on Shrine is level slowly or build.

As long as the items never make it out of Shrine, I think it would be appropriate to increase resource drops in Shrine, while maintaining reduced exp and soul drop chances.

@zencow , Shrine is a non-physical resource map ever since we moved to the Soul-System, and is only a physical resource map if you want to live in Shrine. Ruins functions as the "Resource Map" effectively. If you cannot survive the Greylisted LostSouls or find any friends to help protect your group while you mine, Zen, I suggest you go to Shrine, mine in safety, get souls, and then buy what you need in Haven.

Shrine should NOT share physical resources with other worlds, nor should it increase exp or soul drops so long as it is PVE, which is the entire point of Shrine, its PVE.

Another Resource map, whether open to Greylisters or not, would NOT have protection from griefing and would NOT share items with Shrine.

@Dsawemd Took my time before replying to this wall of text since you're off on a tangent again and pulling out strawmen to argue for the sake of argueing.

Firstly, I'm not sure why you are talking about Shrine. It's not a resource map that replaces ForgeLight due to it's isolation from Haven. Technically Extreme Hills is not the same as Amplified Terrain so you're wrong on that account too. All it is is an ineffective soul and exp feeder if you choose that way of playing.

In regards to Ruins, it having grey-listed users reduces the amounts of resources there are in the immediate regions. I was concerned for the newer players in the server who would struggle with mobs further out due to the mob scaling yet have to venture that far to mine.

If you'd played in Ruins at all you'd know being killed by lost souls is not a threat. I'd be glad if lost souls would come feed me elo. I happen to stalk xTour specifically to know when a Lost Soul exits tutorial to possibly kill it (but be disappointed when they go and get lost in Haven instead of arriving in Ruins). Not being able to find ores closer to spawn yet mobs being too difficult is a common, as compared to Greyson where lost souls could venture out without problem, never mind the easy mode of not having PvP enable until level 10. There are much less HC players since we are keeping much less new players possibly due to this struggle. New players also don't use Shrine as you'd expect them to, from my observations they go there as a last resort rather than smarty abuse it's accessibility and the next step from Shrine is basically quitting. Shrine is a bane to the universe. Shrine is making us lose players.

Your last statement is correct though, I don't want a resource map for Shrine, I want Haven/Ruins/New map as Bastion/Warshard/Forgelight and Shrine can still be it's own thing. Whether Shrine could have it's own resource map or not I could care less. Was that so hard to understand? Please make more condescending assumptions and blurting out random offtopic ideas.

 

[LightningCape]

Shrine is making us lose players.

Shrine has actually brought back a lot of players and continues to do so.

 

[zencow]

Shrine has actually brought back a lot of players and continues to do so.

I was exaggerating abit, but whom?

Oldies I see see Shrine and run back to Haven. And people who play on Shrine exclusively don't really 'exist' since they live in isolation. IMO Shrine splits the player base in a negative way.

1. The sole PvErs will always be sole PvErs since there's nothing encouraging them to PvP and get better at PvP.
2. No combat experience means fights remain one sided.

The server's been up for 3 years now and we are reaching a point where there is a growing rift in between veterans and new players, I'd argue that the presence of Shrine causes this rift to widen and discourage new players from playing* whilst having minimal effects on experienced players.

Hardcore players are in decline, see Rapture's town page for instance who's taking most new players: how many players do you actually see stay?, what we have now is a declining playerbase and pleasing old members to be coming back is not enough. Shrine is not helping with building a skilful community.

*levelling in Haven/Ruins would take 1-3 or so weeks of playing to master, levelling in Shrine would take 4 times longer due to less mobs being spawned due to the nature of the terrain and the halved exp rate, levelling being a boring process would likely make the new player who got told to 'go to shrine' to more likely quit than for them to level up and get revenge.

 

[Dsawemd]

1.New players also don't use Shrine as you'd expect them to, from my observations they go there as a last resort rather than smarty abuse it's accessibility ...
2. ....and the next step from Shrine is basically quitting. Shrine is a bane to the universe. Shrine is making us lose players.

disclaimer: direct quote of 2 sentences, I split them apart with my numbers though.

Since I seem to be upsetting you, I will stop with this post.

Quote: 1 seems like a useful starting point to begin considering solutions, and 2 I strongly disagree with.

On-topic: Resources in the Maps are not depleted to the point of requiring a new map yet.

 

[Dsawemd]

I was exaggerating abit, but whom?

Oldies I see see Shrine and run back to Haven. And people who play on Shrine exclusively don't really 'exist' since they live in isolation. IMO Shrine splits the player base in a negative way.

1. The sole PvErs will always be sole PvErs since there's nothing encouraging them to PvP and get better at PvP.
2. No combat experience means fights remain one sided.

Sorry, had to respond when I read this...

1. Shrine is for PVErs, your point is valid. Nothing about Shrine encourages people to PVP. Working as intended.
2. Once again, no combat experience means they will not be fighting, because they like to PVE. Some people do. Working as INTENDED.

Shrine offers another way to experience Herocraft through PVE + building. Not a negative experience.

 

[zencow]

Sorry, had to respond when I read this...

1. Shrine is for PVErs, your point is valid. Nothing about Shrine encourages people to PVP. Working as intended.
2. Once again, no combat experience means they will not be fighting, because they like to PVE. Some people do. Working as INTENDED.

Shrine offers another way to experience Herocraft through PVE + building. Not a negative experience.

It's not a negative experience, but it's not the 'right' Herocraft experience either.
Shrine fulfils the niche on allowing sole PvErs to be able to enjoy something without being camped but it the activities you do in Shrine quickly becomes casual once you abuse certain things.

The factors that keeps Shrine hardcore are the amplified terrain and the lower rates. The implications of amplified terrain are:
1) travel is difficult, if you die without a death chest it is likely you would likely take you more than 5 minutes navigating the golden 100 blocks back to your items.
2) and mining (ores are more dispersed throughout the layers, thus it is much less efficient to mine for souls)

This causes the optimal strategy for playing in Shrine to be staying still:
A) setting up legal dark rooms under large floating islands
B) punching wheat

Which is in direct contrast with Haven and Ruin's exploring and keeping on the move to prevent yourself from being an easy target. Since the PVP threats aren't there, the gameplay in Shrine is much too casual once you start playing smartly.

Then there's the social implications of Shrine where players can effectively avoid the hazing culture of Herocraft. !!! The low level killing builds character !!! Shrine's biggest plus is it's always there so you could have it as an alternative to being camped at your finger tips rather than just logging out, but it sets up a culture that's different and has the potential to alienate the playerbase. Since Shrine is so underplayed it may not seem like an issue now but once Dungeons and PvE Events are in, this may become more obvious.

It has the potential to bring more players naturally by appealing to a larger audience, but this to me is paralleling how MMOs these days are becoming more casual to appeal to a larger audience. Player decline or player gain aside: naturally Herocraft's community will evolve, but for better or worse?

 

[Dsawemd]

It's not a negative experience, but it's not the 'right' Herocraft experience either.

The factors that keeps Shrine hardcore are the amplified terrain and the lower rates.

This causes the optimal strategy for [Leveling] in Shrine to be [Farming].

Which is in direct contrast with Haven and Ruin's [playstyle].

Then there's the social implications of Shrine where players can effectively avoid the hazing culture of Herocraft. !!!

Shrine's biggest plus is it's always there so you could have it as an alternative to being camped at your finger tips rather than just logging out,
[*]but it sets up a culture that's different and has the potential to alienate the playerbase.

disclaimer: [modified text]. Text wall of quote has also been partially deleted.

Just from reading your post, I can clearly see that Shrine is working as intended. Its a Hardcore Pve map that focuses much less on leveling, HeroSkills, and fighting of any type.

The optimal strategy for LEVELING in Shrine is to use naturally occurring groups of mobs or to farm huge farms. But the optimal strategy for LEVELING(at least combat class leveling) in Herocraft is to leave Shrine. Working as intended.

You're correct in noting that this playstyle is distinct from Haven, it is.

Players can use the Pve map to avoid hazing and other forms of legal harassment. Correct, and we all know how many noobs like to say "Im quitting bc X player killed me 5 times" whether they end up quitting or not.

[*] I am going to try and explain the fundamental misunderstanding that seems to have given rise to this thread:
Shrine does not create two groups of players, one of which prefer a safer and more PVE focused experience. These variations in preferred playstyles exist naturally in the Minecraft Community. There is no "alienation" of the player base, as HC is NOT a PVP server, it is an RPG server.

edit: Players like you and I do not determine the "right experience" for the server, btw.