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A (Maybe) Controversial Take on PvP

strongholdx

Moderator
Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Likes
751
Location
Earth
#1
Introduction.

This post is going to seek to open up community discussion around a topic that I think is both important for the community to discuss as well as relevant to us all as members of the Herocraft community. This one might be a bit long winded, so I'm sorry in advance. With that being said, allow me to pose a question:

When is PvP not PvP?

It might seem like a silly question but it’s something I want to explore, because I think it’s a vital opportunity for the Herocraft community to reflect on itself and what it wants to become. We’re all a lot older than we were when Herocraft was in its prime and I think its important that we take some time to discuss the kind of community we are and are going to be.



A History of Bloodshed

Its no secret that Herocraft is incredibly PvP centric. I’ve discussed this a little bit in my last post about encouraging building and incentivizing creativity but allow me to briefly repeat myself. In the past we’ve alienated tons of players due to toxic behavior. Spawn camping, toxic banter, trash talk, and general dishonorable conduct have driven loads of players from the server in the past.

To quote myself

do you know what happens to people when they're thrown into an unfamiliar PvP system that requires macros to function and they have a 13 year old screaming in OffTopic to get good as they get slain for the 10th time? They go elsewhere […] because it simply wasn't fun to die and have your progress wiped over and over again when there was another server just a webpage away that wasn't going to have these problems.


What’s Your Point?

If you’ve logged in recently, you’ll notice that the Beta caps out around 10 players on a good day. That’s not a bad thing, the beta isn’t going to be indicative of actual turnout. But the days of Herocraft’s 50-100 players average are long gone. We’re always going to see lower numbers and a smaller community. If we want that community to grow, we can’t risk alienating players and having them log in, look around, die, and then log off and delete Herocraft from their server browser.

What I’m concerned about are the new players who are going to log in on or a little after launch, start their new character, maybe get to level 10 and then get their shit kicked in by a ninja 25 levels higher than them who is looking for PvP.



Well, That’s Just Part of The Experience. Herocraft Isn’t For Everyone.

This is probably the most common excuse that I hear. I think it’s a load of shit. Herocraft is modeled after classical MMOs like WoW, which don’t even remotely resemble Minecraft. Can you imagine if WoW had PvP enabled everywhere? Can you imagine if Runescape or Guild Wars let you just stroll up to literally anyone and start wailing on them? Even Runescape’s Deadman Mode, a game mode that has PvP enabled nearly everywhere has safe zones and grace periods that prevent players from being attacked.

Players are the lifeblood of any game and if the systems and mechanics encourage ruthless self-serving tactics then the player base is going to act ruthless and self-serving. And in our case, that will create an environment for which it is difficult or impossible for new players to acclimate to the climate of Herocraft. Any game should want to retain its playerbase and being “hardcore” shouldn’t demand a slow and self-sacrificing death. Because a game without players is dead and a community without noobs is slowly going to dry up and power off its servers for the last time.



I can’t believe you want to BAN PvP!

That is obviously not what I’m suggesting. However, the primary goal of a game is to have fun and players are most likely to leave if they’re not accomplishing what they set out for: personal enjoyment. Having someone vastly more powerful and experienced than you crush you, camp your things, and trash talk you in chat causing you to have to start over from scratch is distinctly NOT fun for a huge amount of people.

The go to reaction of the Hardcore community is usually “well go get him back, steal your stuff back.” And to that I ask: with what gear? With what skills? The dude who just dumpstered you is probably going to have a group or at least a town where he can hide or get reinforcements who also probably out level your solo level 12 necromancer with a stone hoe.

But I think I have more of a problem with what happens after this whole altercation. You’ve died, gone back to your stuff, died again, had your things stolen and now you’re back to square one. Most new players say “wow screw that guy, what a dick” and then go on their way trying to recoup their losses until along comes a different player who does the exact same thing.

Do you see what I’m saying?



Herocraft Punishes Players For Failing and For Having Failed.

The reason death is punishing in a vast majority of games is because there has to be a threat; some sort of reason to try to stay alive. The threat of your items being stolen or lost is enough to motivate most players. In PvP centric games this rewards player skill. But could you imagine if LoL, Apex, Fortnite, Ect matched the highest skilled players against the lowest skilled players? At that point it’s not a competition, it’s a massacre.

But this isn’t Battletoads, you shouldn’t have to suffer a total reset after one such failure, and you shouldn’t have to face off against the highest skill players with the strongest items and abilities right off the bat. You should at least have a little safety net to catch you to make your fall a little less painful.

We can still be hardcore without being totally unforgiving and uncompromising. Which brings me back to the original point of this post. When is PvP not PvP?



When Its Harassment.

If someone has something you want Herocraft puts no limits on you being able to go and kill them and take it, provided its not behind some barrier such as a locked chest or town wall (but not even walls are always safe). This isn’t bad. It’s the fact that there is no barrier for failure, nothing to ensure the player is having fun. And when this happens multiple times, day in and day out, players are going to go elsewhere, filing this server at the bottom of a growing list of servers that they won’t ever play on again.

And do you know the greatest irony of all of this? The PvP community can and will complain about lack of new players and no one to PvP as they literally jump at any group or solo player who logs on, promising them the thrill of the hunt one more time. Avid PvP literally hunts players to extinction and then scratches its head when there’s only a barren wasteland to rule.

A lot of the time I see PvP that is very one sided, because the aggressor is looking for sport while the defender is not. This could easily be fixed by competitions, honorable duels with a wager system, or any number of alternate methods of PvP. Herocraft has a deep and varied combat system, but if you just use it to gank unsuspecting noobs you might as well be playing singleplayer with some automation mod to gather resources for you.



There Need To Be Limits.

Players should have a safety net at low levels or after excessive deaths that prevent PvP for a limited time. The community should be more mindful of new players’ fun even at the sacrifice of their own short-term enjoyment in order to boost player numbers. And we should encourage and engage in honorable conduct and contests of skill rather than underhanded backstabbing simply to steal loot. Valuables should be hard earned in skill or stealth and not because you managed to jump someone after their first mining trip who just joined or hasn’t installed their first macro mod yet.



Please leave civil comments below and let’s discuss it. How do YOU feel about PvP and its place in Herocraft? Where is the line between PvP and harassment? Are birds real? I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2021
Likes
1
Location
USA EST Timezone
#2
I totally agree, I think there should somehow be some way to separate/isolate the time and place to pvp, as much as possible. If the server is able to isolate that as much as possible, it'd be nice.
 

werwew19

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Likes
162
Location
United States
#3
Introduction.

This post is going to seek to open up community discussion around a topic that I think is both important for the community to discuss as well as relevant to us all as members of the Herocraft community. This one might be a bit long winded, so I'm sorry in advance. With that being said, allow me to pose a question:

When is PvP not PvP?

It might seem like a silly question but it’s something I want to explore, because I think it’s a vital opportunity for the Herocraft community to reflect on itself and what it wants to become. We’re all a lot older than we were when Herocraft was in its prime and I think its important that we take some time to discuss the kind of community we are and are going to be.



A History of Bloodshed

Its no secret that Herocraft is incredibly PvP centric. I’ve discussed this a little bit in my last post about encouraging building and incentivizing creativity but allow me to briefly repeat myself. In the past we’ve alienated tons of players due to toxic behavior. Spawn camping, toxic banter, trash talk, and general dishonorable conduct have driven loads of players from the server in the past.

To quote myself





What’s Your Point?

If you’ve logged in recently, you’ll notice that the Beta caps out around 10 players on a good day. That’s not a bad thing, the beta isn’t going to be indicative of actual turnout. But the days of Herocraft’s 50-100 players average are long gone. We’re always going to see lower numbers and a smaller community. If we want that community to grow, we can’t risk alienating players and having them log in, look around, die, and then log off and delete Herocraft from their server browser.

What I’m concerned about are the new players who are going to log in on or a little after launch, start their new character, maybe get to level 10 and then get their shit kicked in by a ninja 25 levels higher than them who is looking for PvP.



Well, That’s Just Part of The Experience. Herocraft Isn’t For Everyone.

This is probably the most common excuse that I hear. I think it’s a load of shit. Herocraft is modeled after classical MMOs like WoW, which don’t even remotely resemble Minecraft. Can you imagine if WoW had PvP enabled everywhere? Can you imagine if Runescape or Guild Wars let you just stroll up to literally anyone and start wailing on them? Even Runescape’s Deadman Mode, a game mode that has PvP enabled nearly everywhere has safe zones and grace periods that prevent players from being attacked.

Players are the lifeblood of any game and if the systems and mechanics encourage ruthless self-serving tactics then the player base is going to act ruthless and self-serving. And in our case, that will create an environment for which it is difficult or impossible for new players to acclimate to the climate of Herocraft. Any game should want to retain its playerbase and being “hardcore” shouldn’t demand a slow and self-sacrificing death. Because a game without players is dead and a community without noobs is slowly going to dry up and power off its servers for the last time.



I can’t believe you want to BAN PvP!

That is obviously not what I’m suggesting. However, the primary goal of a game is to have fun and players are most likely to leave if they’re not accomplishing what they set out for: personal enjoyment. Having someone vastly more powerful and experienced than you crush you, camp your things, and trash talk you in chat causing you to have to start over from scratch is distinctly NOT fun for a huge amount of people.

The go to reaction of the Hardcore community is usually “well go get him back, steal your stuff back.” And to that I ask: with what gear? With what skills? The dude who just dumpstered you is probably going to have a group or at least a town where he can hide or get reinforcements who also probably out level your solo level 12 necromancer with a stone hoe.

But I think I have more of a problem with what happens after this whole altercation. You’ve died, gone back to your stuff, died again, had your things stolen and now you’re back to square one. Most new players say “wow screw that guy, what a dick” and then go on their way trying to recoup their losses until along comes a different player who does the exact same thing.

Do you see what I’m saying?



Herocraft Punishes Players For Failing and For Having Failed.

The reason death is punishing in a vast majority of games is because there has to be a threat; some sort of reason to try to stay alive. The threat of your items being stolen or lost is enough to motivate most players. In PvP centric games this rewards player skill. But could you imagine if LoL, Apex, Fortnite, Ect matched the highest skilled players against the lowest skilled players? At that point it’s not a competition, it’s a massacre.

But this isn’t Battletoads, you shouldn’t have to suffer a total reset after one such failure, and you shouldn’t have to face off against the highest skill players with the strongest items and abilities right off the bat. You should at least have a little safety net to catch you to make your fall a little less painful.

We can still be hardcore without being totally unforgiving and uncompromising. Which brings me back to the original point of this post. When is PvP not PvP?



When Its Harassment.

If someone has something you want Herocraft puts no limits on you being able to go and kill them and take it, provided its not behind some barrier such as a locked chest or town wall (but not even walls are always safe). This isn’t bad. It’s the fact that there is no barrier for failure, nothing to ensure the player is having fun. And when this happens multiple times, day in and day out, players are going to go elsewhere, filing this server at the bottom of a growing list of servers that they won’t ever play on again.

And do you know the greatest irony of all of this? The PvP community can and will complain about lack of new players and no one to PvP as they literally jump at any group or solo player who logs on, promising them the thrill of the hunt one more time. Avid PvP literally hunts players to extinction and then scratches its head when there’s only a barren wasteland to rule.

A lot of the time I see PvP that is very one sided, because the aggressor is looking for sport while the defender is not. This could easily be fixed by competitions, honorable duels with a wager system, or any number of alternate methods of PvP. Herocraft has a deep and varied combat system, but if you just use it to gank unsuspecting noobs you might as well be playing singleplayer with some automation mod to gather resources for you.



There Need To Be Limits.

Players should have a safety net at low levels or after excessive deaths that prevent PvP for a limited time. The community should be more mindful of new players’ fun even at the sacrifice of their own short-term enjoyment in order to boost player numbers. And we should encourage and engage in honorable conduct and contests of skill rather than underhanded backstabbing simply to steal loot. Valuables should be hard earned in skill or stealth and not because you managed to jump someone after their first mining trip who just joined or hasn’t installed their first macro mod yet.



Please leave civil comments below and let’s discuss it. How do YOU feel about PvP and its place in Herocraft? Where is the line between PvP and harassment? Are birds real? I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
I agree this is a major issue that needs to be addressed and a very important discussion to be had in a public setting like the forums. I've watched people quit in the past, I've watched people quit recently in beta. It's been happening a very long time and the solutions implemented in the past had their fair share of issues making them problematic as well.

I want to point out some of the issues we have seen in the past when we had level restrictions for pvp. From my experience when we had pvp restricted up until a certain level, I witnessed a lot of griefing in pvp and in building environments. Got a guy in your town harassing you and talking shit? Can't do anything to get rid of him. Oh he wants to sit at the door and hold everyone hostage until he walks in the town? He is very free to do so. I have also seen veterans reset their levels down to a certain level and place lava buckets in pvp fights or just place blocks and grief fights.

I think a possible solution to this is instead of restricting it by levels, if we could somehow track the time of a player first joining the server and having pvp disabled to them, the likelihood of them being toxic to other towns would be minimal now not to say it isn't possible but the rate it's occurring at should be low enough for staff to handle it.

I also think a lot of the veteran players need to kind of come to a global consensus on recognizing new players and not being cancerous about it and killing names they don't recognize, this is an unrealistic ask but if the discussion is consistently held on the forums and in o chat maybe some players will come around to the idea like I have myself.

I want to also consider exploring the idea of multiple solutions to this idea, I don't think one solution will be the magic bullet. Auto-bounties encourage players to do it more because they get off on the idea that they have a bounty on them, but maybe auto-bounties induced can implement a negative aspect where the auto bounty system recognizes werwew19 killed a player below level 10, a 500 coin bounty gets placed on werwew19 when someone collects the bounty werwew19 loses 500c. This is just an idea not suggesting this should be implemented but would like to explore the idea in discussion.

If we can find a way to create diminishing returns on killing new players kind of like the karma system gabizou tried implementing a very long time ago that wasn't the most popular feature on herocraft but had the right intentions and needed some more development and exploration.

I'll likely revisit my post later and update/edit it with more thoughts however this is where I'm at right now.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 24, 2021
Likes
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Location
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#4
I agree this is a major issue that needs to be addressed and a very important discussion to be had in a public setting like the forums. I've watched people quit in the past, I've watched people quit recently in beta. It's been happening a very long time and the solutions implemented in the past had their fair share of issues making them problematic as well.

I want to point out some of the issues we have seen in the past when we had level restrictions for pvp. From my experience when we had pvp restricted up until a certain level, I witnessed a lot of griefing in pvp and in building environments. Got a guy in your town harassing you and talking shit? Can't do anything to get rid of him. Oh he wants to sit at the door and hold everyone hostage until he walks in the town? He is very free to do so. I have also seen veterans reset their levels down to a certain level and place lava buckets in pvp fights or just place blocks and grief fights.

I think a possible solution to this is instead of restricting it by levels, if we could somehow track the time of a player first joining the server and having pvp disabled to them, the likelihood of them being toxic to other towns would be minimal now not to say it isn't possible but the rate it's occurring at should be low enough for staff to handle it.

I also think a lot of the veteran players need to kind of come to a global consensus on recognizing new players and not being cancerous about it and killing names they don't recognize, this is an unrealistic ask but if the discussion is consistently held on the forums and in o chat maybe some players will come around to the idea like I have myself.

I want to also consider exploring the idea of multiple solutions to this idea, I don't think one solution will be the magic bullet. Auto-bounties encourage players to do it more because they get off on the idea that they have a bounty on them, but maybe auto-bounties induced can implement a negative aspect where the auto bounty system recognizes werwew19 killed a player below level 10, a 500 coin bounty gets placed on werwew19 when someone collects the bounty werwew19 loses 500c. This is just an idea not suggesting this should be implemented but would like to explore the idea in discussion.

If we can find a way to create diminishing returns on killing new players kind of like the karma system gabizou tried implementing a very long time ago that wasn't the most popular feature on herocraft but had the right intentions and needed some more development and exploration.

I'll likely revisit my post later and update/edit it with more thoughts however this is where I'm at right now.
It's definitely gonna require a solution that's gonna need depth, time, and rigor. I personally suggested (just taking a jab, an idea, not saying it should be what's established) that maybe pve and pvp areas should be more distinguished, something along those lines. Create more zones of each. Add in pvp arenas maybe? design the map so that certain zones are meant to be gankable and so on, etc. I also suggested some form of pvp protection, akin to that one item that protects you from encountering wild pokemon when exploring when consumed (albeit with restrictions and parameters to prevent abuse of that pvp protection). Just a jab, an idea, maybe not a good one. I hope we can figure this out
 
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Aug 24, 2021
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#5
Also, I honestly really think staff should go through the chat log here and there. We say some pretty useful stuff imo ingame. I can voluntarily backtrack some stuff myself and relay sections of the ingame chat myself lol if anyone wants to read em. Sorry for the off topic side note, just wanted to put it out there.
 
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Likes
132
Location
Canada
#6
Also, I honestly really think staff should go through the chat log here and there. We say some pretty useful stuff imo ingame. I can voluntarily backtrack some stuff myself and relay sections of the ingame chat myself lol if anyone wants to read em. Sorry for the off topic side note, just wanted to put it out there.
You should write down all the suggestions and make a big post about them.

Also, I think PVP should actually be encouraged a little more. Video games are an amazing thought experiment to study and live out many things you would never be able to do in real life. Taking the risk of joining a server when you know there's a chance someone is going to come and ruin your 3 months of work by raiding all your diamonds is a very fun experience for a lot of people. That is the type of risk taker this server has attracted in the past, and that is why there were so many of them that more peaceful players would consider "Toxic". Imagine we went around advocating for a debatable win in Call of Duty. Where, in spite of the violence and turning new players away, we decided you had to be a negotiator and try to convince the other team to surrender through threat of talking your damn ear off all night long.

I believe PvP safe zones should include only a small portion of spawn (Exchange/actual spawn points) graveyards if they're brought in and herogates as well. Force the player base to regulate murders and create a police force if you feel the need to protect new players. Unfortunately, restricting PVP has only ever made games worse and caused even more people to quit eventually due to either the exploits of those who can avoid pvp or due to people getting bored of not being able to defend their bases.

I'm not sure exactly how you could code this but if there was a way to do it I think this would be the best way. Create a 5 tier radius from spawn for pvp lvl caps. (Like Runescape wilderness) Once you're at the edge of the world, a lvl 50 vs lvl 1 is possible. But the closer you get to spawn, each tier can chop down 10 lvls. It will force players to expand their towns futher depending on the lvl of security they want for their noobs. T1 could be only 10 lvl difference between players, T2 could just go to 20 lvls difference and so on until you reach the edge of the world.
 

Alator

Ancient Soul
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Retired Staff
Joined
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#7
I'm not sure exactly how you could code this but if there was a way to do it I think this would be the best way. Create a 5 tier radius from spawn for pvp lvl caps. (Like Runescape wilderness) Once you're at the edge of the world, a lvl 50 vs lvl 1 is possible. But the closer you get to spawn, each tier can chop down 10 lvls. It will force players to expand their towns futher depending on the lvl of security they want for their noobs. T1 could be only 10 lvl difference between players, T2 could just go to 20 lvls difference and so on until you reach the edge of the world.
There will always be people who work around systems to troll. Historically, our policy has been "if the system allows it, it's legal" with defined rules for specific exploits. That being said, what is the real tradeoff for this system (just thinking hypothetically). The tiered zones thing would be interesting, but i would reccomend it impact towns as well. Either have town upkeep cheaper farther away from spawn, limit the maximum size tier a town can reach, or both. That way the tradeoff for newb protection is township limitations. Want a bigger, more flourishing town? Risk the loss of low-level protection and be forced to rely on your larger population. Want to level up faster? Expose yourself to more PvP risk. Want you and a handful of friends to build a little halmet together? Build close to spawn and risk being attacked by other low level players only.

I don't think you should be completely safe from PvP, but limiting it in situations wouldn't be a bad idea.

I can think of issues with this setup, but no plan will be perfect. Just trying to continue conversation. Remember, new players are not likely to report or take videos; they'll just leave.
 
Joined
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#8
Sadly PvP is the only endgame content herocraft offers right now ): People will get bored and sadly it's going to happen. I also don't agree with the tiered post said above ^ we were just arguing about easy craft and what not. Progressing a combat class doesn't take that long. That isn't really even the issue, I'm more than confident a good pvper can hop on HC right now be level 15 and kill a max level player, with class balancing things will change that theres people who have been pvping on MC for almost 10 years and somebody whose been pvping for 10 days. Some people run from certain players or from PVP because they aren't confident in their ability to pvp some people fight every chance they get making them more exposed to this situations making them better at PVPing. Comparing HC to wow or something is kind of irrelevant because youre comparing a game "Wow" that back in the day im sorry but Vanilla way in 2004-2007 was 100x better than the remake for the pure reason everybody was learning the game and you going to certain zones STV, Hillsbrad, Arathi you knew you were going to be pvping getting ganked is nothing to a player who understands that for the pure reason theyre gonna say "screw that guy" run back to their body and res and continue on with their day. If a game has enough content and is rewarding enough people will stay. The community will be smaller as people are more drawn towards the gamemodes nowa days that you can play for a year and still have content that you haven't accomplished. Content within a game does a WHOLE lot. I think the focus should be more so on that rather than ways to babyfy people even more, pretty soon HC will just be a version of WC that isn't fun to everybody!!! Just my opinions though man. I think keeping HC at its roots would be a better idea than trying to adapt to an easier culture. HC's roots consist of maxing a character and then fighting that's what made it fun now when i log on I'm jumping in circles in my town because nobody is motivated to level or PVP or do anything other than PVPing on the test server it just doesn't feel much like HC anymore.
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2021
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#9
Sadly PvP is the only endgame content herocraft offers right now ): People will get bored and sadly it's going to happen. I also don't agree with the tiered post said above ^ we were just arguing about easy craft and what not. Progressing a combat class doesn't take that long. That isn't really even the issue, I'm more than confident a good pvper can hop on HC right now be level 15 and kill a max level player, with class balancing things will change that theres people who have been pvping on MC for almost 10 years and somebody whose been pvping for 10 days. Some people run from certain players or from PVP because they aren't confident in their ability to pvp some people fight every chance they get making them more exposed to this situations making them better at PVPing. Comparing HC to wow or something is kind of irrelevant because youre comparing a game "Wow" that back in the day im sorry but Vanilla way in 2004-2007 was 100x better than the remake for the pure reason everybody was learning the game and you going to certain zones STV, Hillsbrad, Arathi you knew you were going to be pvping getting ganked is nothing to a player who understands that for the pure reason theyre gonna say "screw that guy" run back to their body and res and continue on with their day. If a game has enough content and is rewarding enough people will stay. The community will be smaller as people are more drawn towards the gamemodes nowa days that you can play for a year and still have content that you haven't accomplished. Content within a game does a WHOLE lot. I think the focus should be more so on that rather than ways to babyfy people even more, pretty soon HC will just be a version of WC that isn't fun to everybody!!! Just my opinions though man. I think keeping HC at its roots would be a better idea than trying to adapt to an easier culture. HC's roots consist of maxing a character and then fighting that's what made it fun now when i log on I'm jumping in circles in my town because nobody is motivated to level or PVP or do anything other than PVPing on the test server it just doesn't feel much like HC anymore.
Because everything is in beta right now.... lol. And there's no way a level 15 player in any class is beating a max level beguiler if the latter is even slightly competent, or many other classes like monk, paladin, ninja, dragoon... for that to happen, said max level player would have to be really really bad, or the lvl 15 would be really really really good at pvp I guess. Fully utilizing class skills prevents pure vanilla pvp skill from dominating an actual fight... this is very obvious, with caster classes being an example of that. If you said something like a lvl 30-40 player is able to beat a max level player, that would actually be quite true tbh, but level 15 is a bit of a stretch. And there's nothing about what stronghold said that would be "babying" players because there is nothing he suggested that would even qualify as that. How is preventing the things Stronghold ideally thinks we should avoid "babying"? And content is quite literally what the staff are working on right now lol. Releasing things in seasons, as I'm sure you already know.
 
Joined
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#10
Because everything is in beta right now.... lol. And there's no way a level 15 player in any class is beating a max level beguiler if the latter is even slightly competent, or many other classes like monk, paladin, ninja, dragoon... for that to happen, said max level player would have to be really really bad, or the lvl 15 would be really really really good at pvp I guess. Fully utilizing class skills prevents pure vanilla pvp skill from dominating an actual fight... this is very obvious, with caster classes being an example of that. If you said something like a lvl 30-40 player is able to beat a max level player, that would actually be quite true tbh, but level 15 is a bit of a stretch. And there's nothing about what stronghold said that would be "babying" players because there is nothing he suggested that would even qualify as that. How is preventing the things Stronghold ideally thinks we should avoid "babying"? And content is quite literally what the staff are working on right now lol. Releasing things in seasons, as I'm sure you already know.
1. Beguiler is one class.
2. We can run it on test ill play a warrior you can play a class i wont use any spell above level 15(it's very possible)
3. How would any of this not be taken as babying players? It's not that hard to spawn in run 3000 blocks in 10 minutes then start gathering tools and such. Just my opinion though. They could easily add a random Wilderness port so people get away from spawn. I'm all with what werwew said in regards to a PVP timer of like 30 minutes or an hour because that's more than enough time to run out and get something started.
 
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#11
1. Beguiler is one class.
2. We can run it on test ill play a warrior you can play a class i wont use any spell above level 15(it's very possible)
3. How would any of this not be taken as babying players? It's not that hard to spawn in run 3000 blocks in 10 minutes then start gathering tools and such. Just my opinion though. They could easily add a random Wilderness port so people get away from spawn. I'm all with what werwew said in regards to a PVP timer of like 30 minutes or an hour because that's more than enough time to run out and get something started.
I went on to list other classes lol. Basically saying etc.
I'm very very much in doubt that you would beat a max level samurai when they use everything, and etc lol. And again, I'd like to point out that I never said that a lvl 15 cannot beat a lvl 50 player unconditionally. Lol.
Finally, spawncamping exists lol. People will exploit things the best they can because they can and thats just one example. I guess the random wilderness port would help a little bit but for new players it will be hard for them to reference their location when they want to, because they're unfamiliar with the map. Plus, it's still vulnerability. I also think the kind of timer werwew said is a step in the right direction, but it's exactly just that, a step, not a good thorough solution. We can agree on this though, at least.
 
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I went on to list other classes lol. Basically saying etc.
I'm very very much in doubt that you would beat a max level samurai when they use everything, and etc lol. And again, I'd like to point out that I never said that a lvl 15 cannot beat a lvl 50 player unconditionally. Lol.
Finally, spawncamping exists lol. People will exploit things the best they can because they can and thats just one example. I guess the random wilderness port would help a little bit but for new players it will be hard for them to reference their location when they want to, because they're unfamiliar with the map. Plus, it's still vulnerability. I also think the kind of timer werwew said is a step in the right direction, but it's exactly just that, a step, not a good thorough solution. We can agree on this though, at least.
Spawncamping does exsist for sure just not on HC beta, this post was revolved around players getting killed in beta even though pvp rarely happens on the beta. IMO This didn't seem like a serious issue, me and 2 others killed 5 players two seperate times within a 2 hour period. I killed them multiple times because i was trapped in their town and they kept TPing back and told them to just let me out and they continuously said no. I'm sure this post has something to do with that but the players were mostly level 50.
 
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