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Suggestion Town Limit, Audit and Taxes - Solutions to a Growing Problem?

MajorasMask

Ungodly
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Location
Earth
EDIT: If you are going to comment on this thread, please stay ON TOPIC. The suggestion will go nowhere otherwise.

This thread concerns the issue of the increasing number of inactive towns, the lack of PvP on this server and the general degrading of the Herocraft community. Do not take this as offensive, the community is fine at the moment, but it'll get worse. Myself, and many other community members, have seen this coming.

Please check the thread ''http://herocraftonline.com/main/threads/herocraft-my-random-thoughts.21840/''. This suggestion is a response and organised solution.

I'll try and keep this away from a ''Tl;dr'' thread, hopefully you'll understand:

The Issues:

- Inactive townships. I'd say over 75% of them are inactive.
- Ugly townships. People arn't building much, many projects are left undone.
- New members becoming assholes/unfriendly/working for themselves.
- The HC community growing weaker. Less people work together.
- The server becoming less fun, the experience becoming boring. Nothing happens, much.
- Less PvP, less war and little/no progress with any PvP organisation.

Just to name a few.

The Solutions:

A township limit of 10-15 towns, citizen audits every week, alongside taxes.

You may have noticed that this is all centred around townships, not PvP, regions, the heroes plug-in, ect. This is because the solution has got to do with the community.

How Will This Work?

I'm gonna ask you this; remember the begining of Zeal and Dragongarde? I do. There were plenty of people online. People were killing eachother, I was scared to go outside due to the fear of death. Remember how there were very few communities around, barely any townships, ect, BUT, the ones that did exist were very large in player numbers. Remember Lorien? The Communist Collective? D101? SSS?

People mass joined these towns because they had nowhere else to go. This all stopped when there became too many townships. Tons of micro-communities appeared all over the place. With a larger selection at the new players finger tips, the player base on the server was distributed all over the map. This lead to many townships with less members, instead of a fewer townships with many members.

To introduce a town limit of 10-15 would allow fewer township communities, but to let them grow very active. With less choice, like at the beginings of maps, towns would grow much faster, with more players. This'll also means:

- Both builders and PvPers would join a town.

- With PvPers, town competition would become more important, as, with more members, alliences/wars/raids would actually mean something.

- With builders, towns will be able to develop their structures, also finishing their town projects, ect. This'll allow builders to be more creative. With a combination of both builders and PvPers, towns could eliminate the need for a wall (they'd have enough active players to tackle raiders).

- New members would join these townships, learning about the server with assistance, instead of learning/working on their own (which has lead to older members killing new players, creating bad tastes for the server).

- With more activity within towns, the server becomes more fun because people get to work with one another. Alliences would actually mean something and war would also be more important. Remember the CT vs XD war? That was fun, because TONS of people were involved.

- Overall, the community will strengthen. This will attract more players to the game, recreating the positive experience which many people get when they first join the server, and when there is a map wipe.

As to stop inactive towns, citizen audits and tax should be maintained and monitored by members of staff. Tax isn't enough; it doesn't get rid of towns who's citizens log in for 1 minute every week.

I hope you like this idea. It is something which could be introduced very soon. It shouldn't (I hope) be biased as it supports both PvPers and builders. It doesn't involve skills to favor one class, and doesn't introduce a short-term solution to boost things such as PvP. Most towns are inactive anyway, and those that are would get their regions removed if this plan was to go through.

Please comment on what you feel. I'm just trying to find a neutral and positive solution. :D
 

MajorasMask

Ungodly
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Location
Earth
Update:

I have noticed that the thread linked has been locked. I'd like to remind those reading this that this has nothing to do with removing the Heroes plug-in. The plug-in would work fine following this idea.





People somewhat related to this suggestion/thread concept:

@Barnubus @Nadastorm @iHazBryn @Detarbilate
 

jbird112233

Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Jun 28, 2011
I really want to see a town limit to be put into effect ATM their are so many towns with little amount of people in them.
 

iHazBryn

Legacy Supporter 2
Joined
May 1, 2011
Location
Canada
I skimmed through it, here are some ideas I got.

- Remove Hamlets, All they do is make it easier for people to make an ugly ass town.

- Have a town limit. As you've said.

- Make a list of Aesthetic rules about townships, IE no sky high walls, No boxes, no Ugly glass domes. An admin must verify to and extent that your town passes these rules.

- Lower the price that gold is bought at the DHX. This will make it a lot harder for 4-5 people to make a town, and force people to work together more.

- Dis-allow town sales. You shouldn't be able to sell a dieing town, The town should just die.

- Remove the regions on roads. Make them be the center of life on HC again.

- Remove the Herogates. They make travel way too easy, and make conflicts very one sided.

- Enforce Taxes and active player counts. Make the taxes higher, and the active players back to 10 or even to 15.

- Put GYs along the roads, as well as in the wilds.

- have WAY less spawn plots up for sale. They should be a dime a dozen, not a safe zone for half the server.

-Just Make everything more expensive, or money harder to get. right now everything is way to easy to buy. I have like 3 friends that could each make a town with their own money. It shouldn't be that easy.

Thats all I got for now.
 

MajorasMask

Ungodly
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Location
Earth
I skimmed through it, here are some ideas I got.

- Remove Hamlets, All they do is make it easier for people to make an ugly ass town.

- Have a town limit. As you've said.

- Make a list of Aesthetic rules about townships, IE no sky high walls, No boxes, no Ugly glass domes. An admin must verify to and extent that your town passes these rules.

- Lower the price that gold is bought at the DHX. This will make it a lot harder for 4-5 people to make a town, and force people to work together more.

- Dis-allow town sales. You shouldn't be able to sell a dieing town, The town should just die.

- Remove the regions on roads. Make them be the center of life on HC again.

- Remove the Herogates. They make travel way too easy, and make conflicts very one sided.

- Enforce Taxes and active player counts. Make the taxes higher, and the active players back to 10 or even to 15.

- Put GYs along the roads, as well as in the wilds.

- have WAY less spawn plots up for sale. They should be a dime a dozen, not a safe zone for half the server.

-Just Make everything more expensive, or money harder to get. right now everything is way to easy to buy. I have like 3 friends that could each make a town with their own money. It shouldn't be that easy.

Thats all I got for now.

To be honest, what your ideas are a little extreme. I'm trying to stict to what we have now with some added limitations. What you're suggesting would not be able to happen in one simple transition, it's just too much.

Can we stict to my suggestions? None of this ''Herogate, Graveyard, Spawn Plots, Removing Hamlets, Ect'' stuff. Sorry, but this isn't what i'm saying, it's got nothing to do with it. Let's stay on topic, shall we?
 

malmenca

Diamond
Joined
Apr 25, 2011
One of the many solutions myself and others have crafted is to reduce the number of spawn plots drastically. This will massively increase town activity.

Zeal- TD shops and spawn plots were not available until well into the map; people joined towns in order for protection rather than spawn.

DG- people joined towns for like a few days; immediately bought spawn plots and abandoned their towns.



What is the point of a spawn plot? It is the complete opposite of hardcore. And there is no point to building nicely because rarely do people go to/see some of the plots. Only are the ones directly on the roads ever seen. The spawn plot has become a bank vault.

Donor vaults were supposed to be implemented last map and never came to be. Now instead of donating and receiving this perk, you can purchase a larger vault in spawn for coin!
 

HolyRane

Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Nov 17, 2011
Location
In your mothers pants
One of the many solutions myself and others have crafted is to reduce the number of spawn plots drastically. This will massively increase town activity.

Zeal- TD shops and spawn plots were not available until well into the map; people joined towns in order for protection rather than spawn.

DG- people joined towns for like a few days; immediately bought spawn plots and abandoned their towns.



What is the point of a spawn plot? It is the complete opposite of hardcore. And there is no point to building nicely because rarely do people go to/see some of the plots. Only are the ones directly on the roads ever seen. The spawn plot has become a bank vault.

Donor vaults were supposed to be implemented last map and never came to be. Now instead of donating and receiving this perk, you can purchase a larger vault in spawn for coin!
Yes, agreed. This is what I have noticed.

Trends of Townships.

Sanctum -> People joined for the LOOK/Feel of the town -> Zeal -> People joined for security/pvp -> DG -> People joined to rip off/help friends -> Then buy plots and keep all their shit safe for evar.
 

HolyRane

Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Nov 17, 2011
Location
In your mothers pants
Update:

I have noticed that the thread linked has been locked. I'd like to remind those reading this that this has nothing to do with removing the Heroes plug-in. The plug-in would work fine following this idea.





People somewhat related to this suggestion/thread concept:

@Barnubus @Nadastorm @iHazBryn @Detarbilate
I'd like it very much so if you would tag me in these such posts as they intrest me! :)
 

agentjwall

Godly
Joined
Aug 23, 2011
Location
[Classified]
I definitely think it's time we do something like this. Larger towns promotes community and encourages new players to stay around. More active members encourages less-active members to become more active, leading to more server activity overall (at least in theory). Plus most town do suck structure wise* and I want more pretty buildings!
 

Barnubus

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Location
California
I'd have to agree as well, I think this is a great idea. Spawn was created with those plots in mind, they weren't added in later like on Zeal. They can't just not be there. Would look ugly.
Pardon me not typing up too much, I typed myself out on the other thread :p
 

Nalestom

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
As of right now, I count 46 official towns (Judging based off of the number of threads in the "Official Townships" section of the forums.)

Many of these are extremely inactive and harbor dozens of people who keep their items safe by logging in once a week to pay their taxes. I think the idea of limiting the number of townships that are allowed is a fantastic idea - the problem is deciding WHICH towns we should keep.

From what I've heard, the staff don't plan on wiping this map the same way they wiped Sanctum and Zeal; instead, they're just going to expand it a little bit and add more worlds like Warshard. If that's true, then that means that this map will be around for a very, very long time - which means that we need to find a solution to this issue before it becomes a major problem.

Anyway, since this is your idea, @MajorasMask, how do you think we should cut 46 towns down to your proposed 15?
 

c12095

Holy Shit!
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
On the topic of inactive towns, there was a fair amount, close to 10 I believe, that were scheduled for removed by Lastivity, however because she's inactive all those towns still stand it seems. Most ideas on this thread would have to be used on the next map, due to people already being set in their ways on this map they would complain far too much if their precious box of a town was told to rebuild because it's ugly as hell.

The citizen audits need to be done, however I think that it should be the mayor's responsibility to do so, otherwise the town will be penalized (Coin removal) A limit of 15 towns being enough (Possibly a few too many?), anymore than that and I think you will be spreading out the population of Herocraft too thin, After all we only have a cap of 200 at a time, and atm we don't hit over 150.

Again, these restrictions shouldn't be placed on the Staff to do, I say set the rules, and if they are broken and reported, depending on the rule broken, like an entire town being a box, I think they should lose their region all together. We have far too many ugly and inactive towns that are used only for protection. It's not hard to make a great looking town that is also protected.

But another thing I have noticed, on your topic of War/Raids. An issue with the towns on this map, the majority of them have glass domes. In my opinion, glass domes should be illegal, so should Sky high walls, and box towns. They do nothing but take away from what a town can be. People have gotten far too comfortable on this map with their "safety" inside their regions. With the current debate of Ender Pearls being used to enter towns, the only real argument against it is because people want their towns to be 100% safe. To be honest, I think no town should be 100% safe. This is HEROCRAFT people need to get past the notion that they shouldn't have to defend themselves if they step inside their regions. When towns are as small as we have them on this map, people have no real way to defend themselves, which I believe is why people do hide inside regioned boxes so often.

Strength in numbers is a huge factor to this game, and at this point, people are too alone to do anything.
 

Barnubus

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Location
California
As of right now, I count 46 official towns (Judging based off of the number of threads in the "Official Townships" section of the forums.)

I went through all the threads last night, 27 towns are late on taxes, not including those due today. That more then half our current towns are late on taxes alone. Plus citizen audits would possibly drive that number up even more.
If we are strict on both taxes AND citizen audits, I think they will slowly die out, not allowing new ones to be made until our max number is reached.
 

HolyRane

Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Nov 17, 2011
Location
In your mothers pants
I actually agree with @c12095 on this one, we should make the cap VERY low, 10-15 so new players are FORCED to join a town rather than start their own, this way they can get involved in the community and stay members for a long time. The secret to staying active on herocraft is meeting new people, they are the ones who keep you in it. It is rather sad that we have so many towns, yet so few "epic" towns, things like Chronous just don't exsist this map, some towns were so AWESOME, not safe, AWESOME.

The problem lies within the map already being fairly full and the MASSIVE learning curve/hardcore leveling that newbies must face, it takes about a week of HARDCORE playing to max a class, and many noobs die a few times, say FUCK THIS SHIT and leave. It took me about 3 weeks of playing here and there to really get into this server, I had joined a few towns and didn't care for them, then I found the active, fun people I had been looking for and I played for months 8 hours a day, and still talk to some of the people I met back then, and if I may say so myself, some of us are still around @atvrider312 @GreekCrackShot.

The other problem I see is that the rules aren't enforced, taxes for example, we are accepting late taxes, taxes should be hardcore, oh you missed your taxes, NO FUCKING REGIONS FOR YOU. I find that you can squeeze yourself out of many situations with the right words/excuses, only the best of the best should stick around, and NO that doesn't mean pvpers, towns such as XD have a few pvpers, but many of them are just builders who have played on here forever, some even longer than me.

EDIT: Also, I would like LARGER groups so things like madlum/blasphemy can happen, we need the large groups together so we can have a clash of ideals -> wars.
 

mawaty

TNT
Joined
Mar 12, 2012
46 towns?! That's outrageous. I only played zeal because of two things- Helping build my town, and the raids. Anyone remember the raids on North Reach by Orion? Or North Reach & Coal Harbor vs Ironpass? That's what I miss. The anxiousness of not knowing what the enemy might do next. Right now we have so many towns that the pvp is spread far and in between. Right now, people don't try to Raid towns because they're too busy creating their own, new town. So basically, I agree with the 10-15 town limit. Find a town to live in and help it prospere, not stay in it until you can move out an make your own. Also, maybe a little prize if you take over a town? ;)
 

Nalestom

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
46 towns?! That's outrageous. I only played zeal because of two things- Helping build my town, and the raids. Anyone remember the raids on North Reach by Orion? Or North Reach & Coal Harbor vs Ironpass? That's what I miss. The anxiousness of not knowing what the enemy might do next. Right now we have so many towns that the pvp is spread far and in between. Right now, people don't try to Raid towns because they're too busy creating their own, new town. So basically, I agree with the 10-15 town limit. Find a town to live in and help it prospere, not stay in it until you can move out an make your own. Also, maybe a little prize if you take over a town? ;)

But we still run into the problem I pointed out - how do we choose what towns are destroyed and what towns are kept?

Personally, I think we should stop allowing new towns to form as soon as possible. Once we do that, then we can allow a combination of taxes and citizen audits to whittle down the total number of towns. If that doesn't decrease the amount as much as we thought it would, then we can increase the requirements for a Hamlet to be considered a Hamlet. If those requirements aren't met within a certain time period, your regions are removed.
 

Scycor

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
In my opinion, keep Dragonguard the same as it is now. Wait till a new map wipe for all these changes you all want, if they were to change all this there would be too many complaints as for right now. But a new map means new changes and that would be a good time to implement them. So in my opinion try to be patient because they have no plans for a map wipe. We should just wait and see what they do then.
 
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