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Town Alignments, Living the lie.

Dielan9999

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Location
Temple of Melonmancy
Well Newerth has done a good job holding up it's neutral allignment. Anyone attracted to the town who is more on the chaotic good side usually apply for Skyforge instead! I don't believe we've ever cared enough to attack anyone lol
 

teddytazer

Soulsand
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Location
Brampton, Ontario
why would an evil guy such as yourself feel the need to type out "Hi I am Friendly and Peaceful" .

if you want lore so bad, go hang out at the renaissance fair

ok maybe i lied bout typing out "Hi I am friendly and peaceful" but in my defense I could have been ready to type it... If i was not evil.
 

Dwarfers

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Location
Arizona
No such thing as good towns, only good individual players is how I have come to see it. I also don't think "good" players are easy to find. Almost everyone does evil acts unless they are a new player who just joined.
 

northeaster345

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Jun 10, 2012
I just want to point out that good doesn't = nice. Nor does neutral mean you can't do anything, and have to wait until you're attacked first. Neutral doesn't have to be Switzerland, it may mean that you hold alliances with both good and evil sides, but you turn to whatever suits your own needs better. I'd point out that on occasion we have fought alongside underworld to fight off mineris, since they were the enemies we were most interested in at the time. Also we were allies with mineris for a long time as well, since it suited our purposes.

I see myself on the good side of the spectrum, because I try not to kill new players, and I'd rather help them out. If a new player attacks me, and I have to kill him to teach him a lesson, I gtp them back to their stuff, and give them it back. I happened to recruit Oudaiesty when he was being attacked by PotPete. In a dark world that herocraft is full of evil players who will kill anyone they see, being a knight templar, and exterminating evil players no matter the cost doesn't seem particularly out of line with a "good" player. And people have different ideas of what "Good" means, just because you say you're "good" doesn't mean I have to ally with you, you may be a heretic in my eyes, as bad as any worshipper of evil.

That said, I don't feel that I have to hold my members to the same standards as I personally do. I see Paragon as neutral, because we are more tolerant of many types of players. Many of us are builders, and I personally would rather be left alone most of the time. (This is part of the reason why we are a city in the sky until our building is more complete, though the plan is to have an accessible city for people to see the glory of our creations). However we are surrounded on all sides by people who attack us, so would you have us not defend ourselves and our way of life?
 

victim130

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Greetings my name is Teddy Tazer. As mayor of underworld I promote evil behavior, the killing of anyone that is not part of our town, the raiding and stealing of any chest left unprotected. I have noticed many towns claiming to be good and neutral, yet share the exact beliefs me and my town hold dear. For instance this town oakenshire, I was peacefully exploring looking for my old friend jacobburkey. I came across about 4 people where he was last seen and before I could stop and type out "Hi I am Friendly and Peaceful" They ran me down and murdered me. This was clearly not what I would consider Good behavior. Then there is LO, the so called neutral kingdom, I'm sure I am not alone when I say they pretty much kill first ask questions later. I've even seen LO members camp Graveyards for hour or so just at chance to kill some random guy.. Even though my town is evil I discourage killing unequipped and lower level players coming fresh from graveyards, mostly cause it makes u weaker and there is no place for weakness inside my town.

So when I see these Official Townships claiming to be Good, Neutral I just presume they are evil just like my town. My question is why don't they advertise it as it is?
Alignments are nothing in politics. Thus why I think the karma system isn't going to work well.
 

weynard

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Location
Langenhagen (Hanover)
Oh hey, it's this thread again. Just posting before reading any of this to say that this entire discussion will probably amount to nothing, as it has always done.
 

Acherous

Moderator
Legacy Supporter 9
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
Location
Houston
Wish there was a "who cares" rating or something of the sort I could use on the main post. I don't see why people even give two shits about what a town calls themselves.
 

weynard

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Location
Langenhagen (Hanover)
Alright, let's do this.


Run along kiddies and go masturbate to Call of Duty.
Y U NO SPEAKY DE ENGLISH

Why is this guy still a Proctor? This behaviour is unacceptable for anyone representing the server.

i agree with Angyles so back on topic
when i view the alignment system i look and see that the alignment tells what the town is about and what it does.
examples:
Lawful good: bounty hunters respect all serious discussion, spawn camper killers irregardless of the victims alignment, novice friendly, looks bright and cheerful and sunny and is not sealed but warm and welcoming
Neutral( neutral) : More merchants, lots of shops, welcome arms to both good and evil, keeps an eye on both good and evil to see where profits lie, join in conflicts that support their own growth, help people who support their own growth.
Chaotic evil: kills,steals, destroys, bring death to all, hold alliances only with other evil, have no laws, do whatever be whatever have fun

Now these are just the 3 extremes of alignment.
Now i am a member of UW and i myself am lawful good.
However i joined UW because of the blatant disregard for alignment despite what they say.
which in turn supports my lawful good ideals.
Good people camping other good people.
Neutral people Ignoring profit .
Evil people..... well that's pretty much what the whole server.
Now my own personal suggestion:
Remove your alignment and think about it harder and look to your town members.
if you choose good then ally with only good people not evil
if you choose neutral then go make some profit and ally with both sides like a good merchant would do
if you choose evil then ally with evil kill everything etc
in truth all of our towns alignments on this server need to be reviewed and changed
now I'm not saying a town has to have only members of that alignment as a good team has people of all alignments. However the majority of people (4:1 preferred ratio) should be at least the towns base alignment(good evil neutral)
well thats all for my two cents

No. I have multiple issues with your post, but this requires very careful wording, so I'll just write a WoT myself. If you guys can't get yourselves to read it, you better get out of this thread now.

Alignment should only refer to township diplomacy in relation to other Towns, guilds and individual players. This includes Peace, Neutrality and War, albeit none of them (except for Neutrality) need to be related to a town alignment.
Alignment should not dictate behaviour as far as architecture, or internal laws are concerned. All of these have to be left up to the town since they can be used to great effect to add flavour to the town. Evil towns could still have a code of honour as far as internal law goes. Behaviour towards noobs can be different to behaviour towards "any player" and therefore should not be covered with alignment.

Now that I've got this important distinction out of the way, let's get down to what the alignments should represent.

All
- Can provide shelter to individual players, but not those of an adverse alignment.
- Starts at neutral standing towards every other town, guild or player unless otherwise stated.

Good
- Does not attack anyone unless at war.
- Can defend itself in its own territory for the duration of an attack.
- Can defend other good or neutral towns and guilds on their respective territory.
- Can form alliances with other good towns.
- Cannot host evil or neutral guilds.
- Cannot initiate wars.
- Can do business with good and neutral. (Not related to chest shops.)

Neutral
- Cannot form alliances.
- Cannot initiate wars.
- Cannot defend other towns. Can only defend the guilds they are hosting.
- Can host diplomatic talks.
- Can attack anyone in their territory.
- Can defend itself for the duration of an attack.
- Cannot host good or evil guilds.
- Can do business with good, neutral and evil. (Not related to chest shops.)

Evil
- Can attack anyone, anywhere.
- Can form alliances with other evil towns.
- Cannot host good or neutral guilds.
- Can defend other evil or neutral towns and guilds.
- Can do business with evil and neutral. (Not related to chest shops.)

In addition, there are four possible relationships a town can have with any other town.

Alliance
- Requires a peace treaty which needs to be signed by both parties. Must include the terms of the alliance.
- Neither side can attack any members of the other party.
- Can require either side to come to the others' aid.

Neutrality
- Neither side can attack the other.

War
- Requires a declaration of war signed by the declaring party.
- Either side can attack the other without limitation.
- Ending a war requires a surrender signed by both parties. Must include the terms of surrender.

Now that the alignment system is sufficiently defined, there must be an institution that makes sure these terms are observed at all times. This means we either need a plugin or a misc system. Since I don't really want to search bukkit for a plugin, I will propose two misc systems.

1) Mod regulated penalties.
- See a violation
- File a petition
- Mods investigate
- Penalties.

In this case the penalties would be defined by the mod handling the petition. The downside to this is that it creates a lot of additional load on staff.

2) Player regulated Penalties
- Playerbase elects judges
- See a violation
- Report it to a judge
- Judge investigates
- Penalties.

In this case the penalties would be defined by the player handling the report.

Both systems are prone to result in huge drama if the mod/player handling the issue is a fucking retard. To prevent a fucking retarded outcome, don't elect a fucking retarded judge or don't appoint fucking retarded players as mods.

Examples for penalties:
Member of a good town attacks a neutral town and kills two citizens: 0.25*coins needed for current township level of the good town
5 members of an evil town help their old friend who is in a good town against another evil town attack: 0.4*coins needed for current township level of the good town
 

MajorasMask

Ungodly
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Location
Earth
Oh hey, it's this thread again. Just posting before reading any of this to say that this entire discussion will probably amount to nothing, as it has always done.

The whole topic is just silly.

It's been said before, but let me summarise:

Oakenshire:

Oakenshire is a good town. Good towns, when attacked by evil ones, can fight back. That's how it works. ''Good'' does not mean you can't fight/PvP. They can also defend their own territory. It doesn't matter if you ''say you're peaceful''. Chances are, they knew who you were anyways. /town who is for everyone, you know.


Legion of Oblivion:

As for LO, we're attacked all the time. If we were not, then we would just stick to ourselves more (like Northeastern said, we're builders).We're neutral in the sense that we attack when attacked. As for graveyard camping, that was done by everyone at the start of the map. Mainly for titles. Plus, we had some early players in LO that didn't ''follow'' the ''neutral'' guidelines as much as we wanted them to. I think most of them have gone.

WHY do LO and Underworld attack eachother? I don't recall us attacking them at the begining of the map (other than random ''h3y guys lets attack th1s pl4ce!''). On the topic of Underworld Vs LO, i'm sure that it was Underworld who declared war on us. Something to do with a rail tunnel going right through our undercity, which we didn't allow. Strangely enough; they said they wanted to ''interact and trade'', as if their all so powerful ''evil'' town wanted to be allied to a neutral one?

information2.png


This doesn't quite make sense with your statement: ''As mayor of underworld I promote evil behavior''. teddytazer for the love of god, it's making you look silly. Keep your stories consistent, in-game and on the forums.


Back to the main topic:

Which towns are good/neutral/evil? Making my own judgement through what i've seen, the towns which consider themself ''Evil'' (Lunaris, Mineris, Underworld, Rapture, Umbra) are evil (they go around killing others, they charge in to attack towns, ect). Those who consider themself neutral (LO, some XD towns, Belegost, ect) are neutral (they rarely go and attack others, usually when provoked, and stick to themselves most of the time). And finally, those who consider themselves good (Lightforge, Oakenshire, Alicubi) are good (I rarely see them fighting/going out of their way to annoy people, and sometimes, I see they provide services for ever type of player (someone from Alicubi made a long road to the edge of the map, thanks for that! :D)).


Conclusion:

What the hell is this thread for? We've shown you how most towns follow the ''allignment'' rules. Those who don't are probably inactive (judging from their forum pages).
 

teddytazer

Soulsand
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Location
Brampton, Ontario
Well said. Its true I wished to build my road through your town, and when elderlars told me he was going to need the whole lot of his underground for space when he planned on building a large above ground town my mind was blown. Of course I declared war, in hopes that my fine road would one day pass through your beloved paragone and further into the wilderness connecting my evil town with rest of the world. Why can't I be evil and trade with neutral towns, who knows perhaps if the mayor of paragon would have decided to let my road pass through things would have been peaceful between our towns.. :D

And weynard excellent work, good to see someone understands what alignments mean.
 

MajorasMask

Ungodly
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Location
Earth
Well said. Its true I wished to build my road through your town, and when elderlars told me he was going to need the whole lot of his underground for space when he planned on building a large above ground town my mind was blown. Of course I declared war, in hopes that my fine road would one day pass through your beloved paragone and further into the wilderness connecting my evil town with rest of the world. Why can't I be evil and trade with neutral towns, who knows perhaps if the mayor of paragon would have decided to let my road pass through things would have been peaceful between our towns.. :D

And weynard excellent work, good to see someone understands what alignments mean.

What? First of all, you don't need a road going THROUGH town to trade with it. Second of all, I don't think we want to be friendly with someone who is so quick to change their attitude about another town:

''Hey guys let's be friends, we can trade''

*They don't get what they want*

''Well fuck you, we're at war! We're so totally gonna ruin your shit!''

So... yeah.
 

teddytazer

Soulsand
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Location
Brampton, Ontario
Your towns was a shack in the desert when i Proposed the idea of my town connecting with yours and of course the road through your town would be better. Who wants to come to the end of a road and find a town there and have to turn around if they did not like what they seen. The road could have went onward to connect even more towns into a giant trade route. Also anyone reading this that wishes to connect to underworld via underground road network message me for details.
 

MajorasMask

Ungodly
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Location
Earth
Your towns was a shack in the desert when i Proposed the idea of my town connecting with yours and of course the road through your town would be better. Who wants to come to the end of a road and find a town there and have to turn around if they did not like what they seen. The road could have went onward to connect even more towns into a giant trade route. Also anyone reading this that wishes to connect to underworld via underground road network message me for details.

How many times do you need to be told: You don't need giant rails/roads underground for trade. Just set up a chestshop somewhere, or do trade in spawn.

We need our underground space, don't you get it? Your ''road'' isn't a small one either, it's huge. If you wanted something like a small rail going AROUND the region we'd be fine. But no, you want some big unnecessary road going right through the parts of the region we're using. We have farms/storages too you know.
 

teddytazer

Soulsand
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Location
Brampton, Ontario
I need a huge road to move my huge load of trade goods, also underground road system much more secure. Can we drop the subject of how the neutral kingdom of LO decided they needed more space underground for storage (apparently inside the giant sand dunes wasn't enough) and return to the topic of how towns are claiming to be an alignment and doing otherwise.
 

MajorasMask

Ungodly
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Location
Earth
I need a huge road to move my huge load of trade goods, also underground road system much more secure. Can we drop the subject of how the neutral kingdom of LO decided they needed more space underground for storage (apparently inside the giant sand dunes wasn't enough) and return to the topic of how towns are claiming to be an alignment and doing otherwise.

Errm, go back to what topic? We're done here. We've already discussed how LO is neutral and how Oakenshire is good. There is nothing left to discuss, other than your persistant yet false claims you keep making about townships.
 
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