Suggestion Paladins, Burst Vs. Healing

[cschris54321]

A. I'm basing this off of several fights, I only did it after yours since you seem to know problems with the skill reckoning, considering you spammed it until I was in range the whole fight. in addition, I am not the only one who thinks this class is way too powerful when comparing their damage output, and healing abilities.

B. I didn't see any paladin have "mana problems" when they used reckoning 4x, bash 3x, strike 2-3x, pray 4x, and layhands once in a fight. Theres a reason that I said don't say you have "mana issues" because it is a dead arguement.

C. I like how you point out how it is the "...lowest damaging and lowest slowing AoE's in tha game."
Let's compare.
Pulse - more damage, no slow, slows caster for 1.5 seconds usually.
Megabolt - More damage - slows caster, has to be aimed.
Melodic binding - Agreed, it's more in all.
Despair / Terror - not enough info on these, but I know these do not have a pull towards caster or a long slow attatched.
Pigbomb - more damage, takes a while to cast however.
Healing AoE's - ofc. not included.
Extra AoE's - If they are not listed, they are not commonly used, or they are just terrible.

In the end of this arguement, They have a low damaging AoE, I agree. However... most AoE's aren't slowing, most just hit the target back a few blocks.

D. Reckoning does freeze you in place, it's just an AoE root/freeze without the ability to break it, unlike most of the other freezing skills in the game (melodic bindings).

E. I never suggested that heavy of a nerf on healing. That was someone elses opinion on the class. Also, layhands and pray seem to be the "bread and butter" of the class, as the way you put it. Cooldowns could be a hard thing to deal with, but the skill "pray" pops out in particular.
What combo can do 250 damage ? fireball + icebolt - mana cast 20-30 depending on levels.
Pray - counters that with a 8 second cooldown (roughly) which makes the paladin full hp again, and can not be stopped.
Now, when a paladin runs out of time to use pray, they use layhands. Layhands brings the fight back where they were both depleted, and now the paladin only lacks mana. As to where the combatant is lacking mana hp and probably reagents.

For this arguement my point is that they can be used too quickly, in combination with the other skills they have.
Pretty much a paladins game plan at this point is one of two things- 1. Drain their targets resources. 2. Pull of a reckoning and start bashing their opponent down.

Also, defend your class as you wish. but you're the only one I see doing so currently.



I've had this conclusion for a long time. I'm just expressing it in words, now that I know why they are soo.. yeah.

Though I do think that after the pally nerfs they are in a good spot compared to other warriors and other classes just need to be buffed like rouges, you forget to mention that plaugebomb you actually aim it like a projectile so it will often miss without cc, and you can hit yourself with it.

 

[I_Love_Miners]

plague bombs are stupid. is there practically zero cooldown on them? its silly that because theyre an aoe they can go through glass panes and cause serious damage to anyone near it

 

[I_Love_Miners]

Everyones just beating around the bush and pointing this thread towards, and let me put it as I'm reading it from others;

"AMHERGERWD ALEXHOFF THINKS HE'S THE SHIT SO PALADIN DOESN'T NEED NERF YOU JUST THINK WIZARD SHOULD BE BETTER."

You're all fucking retarded, and should feel retarded. You think 1v1 in water, where players/mobs are SLOWED a MELEE should beat a 100% RANGED? You really think that? Even with reckoning, unless the wizard is a 3rd grade special ed star of the year who inserts his face on his keyboard and rolls it in the middle of a fight, the wizard should always win 4/5.

TL;DR people are turning this thread from paladins and the fact they might need a small/medium nerf into a "omg alexhoff is a cocky douche and he sucks if he thinks paladins OP"

Ask yourself if you think you could beat a paladin as ANY class 1v1 excluding yourself a paladin and there is your answer.

i dont think this at all. i expect to die when im in the water vs a wizard. no idea what youre talking about. I dont think paladins should be the best in the game, and I'm totally fine with whatever nerfs they did since I have nothing to compare it to since I was low level when they did it and didnt have reckoning yet. Yet I still had alexhoff bitching to me in chat last week about me being a class that can 1v6 people. I just scratch my head when I see a guy solo raiding 90% of the time and dominating complain about a class being overpowered.

 

[Falker57]

You say Paladins do 5 hearts. Please just fix that first. Paladins do 5 hearts to WIZARDS. thats like 300 hp to any other warrior from dmg reduction with armor. Please use HP and such not hearts. Secondly, I do not see why you cant blink while reckoned? Blink while reckoned, turn around root--> Bolt---> Fireball Repeat. Blink needs to be used more and used like Macura uses his blink

 

[I_Love_Miners]

i retract my entire statement about paladins. they need to be changed somehow. I used to assume they were overpowered and I was just bad at the game, but since they have been nerfed, I virtually have little chance against most classes regardless of wearing armor and having high health power. They pretty much are the lowest damage class on the server with I think strike being their best skill at around 100. nothing else they have is even close to doing legitimate damage. divine stun does 50, but if youre lucky and get combo with it with a strike and a few sword hits, you can maaaybe do about 250 damage, but then youre drained for a good 10 seconds and can't do much else. reckoning does almost no damage now. My best skill is also one that causes me to take damage as well with shield reflect. and if i time it right against wizards or other magic, I can sometimes win a damage trade off battle since I start with more health but this is a weird and difficult way to beat people. then they nerfed layhands to 50% and pray to 15% which more or less makes it a non-heal. I can use conviction and soulfire to sometimes deal fire damage, and take 20% damage, but then i've used up more than 50% of my mana before the fight has even started and I'll run out and be even more useless. Something need to be changed because I think people are now starting to agree that paladin is not even close to being op and I would argue to suggest it's not even near balanced.

 

[cschris54321]

plague bombs are stupid. is there practically zero cooldown on them? its silly that because theyre an aoe they can go through glass panes and cause serious damage to anyone near it

Plaugebomb has a 10 second cool down is beguiler only damage besides fireball but its not on topic so it doesn't really matter.

 

[JDFinal]

If you can't play Paladin talk to pandaman7 lol.

 

[I_Love_Miners]

pandaman is a max dreadknight now. I remember him being a boss paladin before the nerfs. I'd like to hear his thoughts on paladin now. Also, there was one paladin online a few hours ago so I think most people are getting the message that theyre pretty pointless. theyre a class with no direction. theyre warriors that don't do damage, and healers that can barely even heal themselves now and have no aoe heals so theyre useless healers in battle. The majority of classes deal some type of magic damage that goes through armor so paladins are hardly 'tanky'. The only people I can really see beating if I play decent is dragoons or another paladin

 

[Kwong050]

pandaman is a max dreadknight now. I remember him being a boss paladin before the nerfs. I'd like to hear his thoughts on paladin now. Also, there was one paladin online a few hours ago so I think most people are getting the message that theyre pretty pointless. theyre a class with no direction. theyre warriors that don't do damage, and healers that can barely even heal themselves now and have no aoe heals so theyre useless healers in battle. The majority of classes deal some type of magic damage that goes through armor so paladins are hardly 'tanky'. The only people I can really see beating if I play decent is dragoons or another paladin

You are misunderstanding the paladins role. A paladin's job is to tank while ccing the opponent team while busting out mini buffs

 

[victim130]

pandaman is a max dreadknight now. I remember him being a boss paladin before the nerfs. I'd like to hear his thoughts on paladin now. Also, there was one paladin online a few hours ago so I think most people are getting the message that theyre pretty pointless. theyre a class with no direction. theyre warriors that don't do damage, and healers that can barely even heal themselves now and have no aoe heals so theyre useless healers in battle. The majority of classes deal some type of magic damage that goes through armor so paladins are hardly 'tanky'. The only people I can really see beating if I play decent is dragoons or another paladin

I say it every time, but HEROES is a GROUP based COMBAT system. As Kwong050 said, they are meant to be the tank of a conflict and take damage while being annoying to the other team so that your teammates can kill them.

 

[alexhoff1]

I asked this thread to be locked..
grr..

You guys are reviving a long dead thread.

 

[I_Love_Miners]

sorry alex! I wanted to start a new thread but didn't wanna deal with all the people that always suggest using the search feature first

 

[I_Love_Miners]

You are misunderstanding the paladins role. A paladin's job is to tank while ccing the opponent team while busting out mini buffs

I believe their role as a tank is overstated because many classes deal magic damage which negate their 'tankness'

the only support I'm able to give with this current skill set is emotional

 

[w0nd3rb0y]

Paladin is perfect where it is. It does it's job and does it very well.

 

[EvilThor]

Well...
Max hp for tanky classes whit dmg output.
Dreadknight: 1090
Dragoon: 1030
Cleric: 1000

Paladin got: 1060

Dreadknight got even more hp, whit tons of damage and about the same armor.
It's something here that don't seems to be as it should.

Look at it this way; Samurai got 990hp at max.
that is 70hp less than a paladin.
70hp is the same as one shot from a samurai bow.

Another note:

I know a Paladin's Layhands now does 50% healing.

Hmm that's a side-affect that was not intended, we're going to need to patch it up and or fix it.

http://www.herocraftonline.com/main/threads/dev-notes-4-2.26539/

 

[I_Love_Miners]

yeah, i heard they were intending to bring back layhands to 100% and pray was supposed to be 25% i think for self heals instead of the current 15% which is just sad. But what they say will be done, and when it will be done are 2 different issues. and yeah, i heard dreadknight got a buff recently? and now its more or less the tankiest class, and if you encounter dreads on the reg, you also probably notice that theyre damage skills are also probably as amazing as their hp. When I first started playing, my friend basically chose paladin for me and said they were amazing even though I though I probably would have picked dreadknight, which he said were awful. But I'm pretty sure the entire server is catching on that a 30 dk > many maxed classes.

 

[Falker57]

Plaugebomb has a 10 second cool down is beguiler only damage besides fireball but its not on topic so it doesn't really matter.

Chris: First off, you guys have beguile with no cd. So if you are worrying about your cd just beguile them while your waiting for your shit to come off cd. You do aoe dmg and cc. That was offtopic and comparing paladins with beguilers just to talk about what you think is your "underpowered" class is stupid.

On a side note: Nerfing paladins was a bit silly but also kind of reasonable. They are tanks so I think they should have slightly more hp than a DK. Layhands should be put back to where it was and or it should stay the same and Pray should be nerfed to like 5-10%

 

[alexhoff1]

can we just translate alexhoffs original post to say what he really means. which is, 'I'm the best player on the server, and if anyone beats me, their class is clearly op my style is 100% skill and has nothing to do with wizard being op as well'. If I use a perfect strategy I can beat a max wizard 1v1, but would still probably lose to alexhoff 10 out of 10 times because he is actually really good. I know that ideally all the classes would somehow be perfectly balanced and each maxed class should be able to beat the other if the other person is more skilled, but its pretty clear that wizards and paladins might be a little if not a lot better than some of the other classes, and it's time maybe you get over yourself a little and realize that wizard is a very powerful class. I completely understand if people think paladin is op, but the way you make your argument, and having lost against you in the game, I feel like either you think you're so skilled you should never lose, or that your class should be more powerful than others. Either youre really arrogant or just not as fair and balanced as you try to come off as.

If I'm incorrect, let me know, but if your sig is any indicator, I think you feel you should never lose a 1v1. Even the Bulls lost sometimes with Jordan

 

[I_Love_Miners]

quoted post is quoted. alex hoff is jordan. maybe not the chicago bulls jordan, but at the very least, the one that played for the bimingham barons.

Paladins have too many skills as well imo. as a support class, I think it would be nice if it could be focused more on a few skills that are more effective while getting rid of a few specific skills. or maybe make it so soul fire works for the entire party and not just the user.

also, i heard today that wizards got nerfed. time to see how badly this screws me

 

[jazza411]

quoted post is quoted. alex hoff is jordan. maybe not the chicago bulls jordan, but at the very least, the one that played for the bimingham barons.

Paladins have too many skills as well imo. as a support class, I think it would be nice if it could be focused more on a few skills that are more effective while getting rid of a few specific skills. or maybe make it so soul fire works for the entire party and not just the user.

also, i heard today that wizards got nerfed. time to see how badly this screws me

Wizards where brokenly op...