Bug "Client Side Lag" applies to all clients at the same time

[Delfofthebla]

When consulting elite chat about the current lag situation, and trying to see if Kainzo could rectify the issue, I was promptly muted and told by Kainzo to make a bug report, so here I am, and here we go.

I play on this server every day.
I sit on teamspeak with my town every day.
I read the chat every day.
And the server lags, every day.

(And no, restarting your client does not fix this.)

This server is no stranger to latency issues, lag spikes, rubberbanding, and de-syncs.
However, whenever the server unanimously agrees that the server is lagging, Kainzo simply retorts saying "20/20tps, there's no lag on our end. It's client side."

When 10+ people all have the exact same latency issues at the exact same time, all while connecting to different IP's, there is an issue.

My entire town experiences lag frequently. We have members connecting to mc.hc.to, rpg.hc.to, and even eu.hc.to. We are also not always at the same chunk or general world location. We could have people in -2000, -2000 connected to mc.hc.to, while having other members at 2000, 2000 connecting to eu.hc.to, and we will still lag--all at the EXACT same time. We all restart our clients regularly to boot. I'm sorry, but that is not a damn client side issue no matter how you try to spin it.

20/20 tps does NOT mean that the server is not lagging. If players are having issues and you have 20/20 tps, you can say "Sorry, I don't know what's wrong, I can't fix it", but you can't tell the entire server that it is their fault when it's so obviously not. I'm no networking expert but I'm not an idiot either.

I don't understand why Kainzo gets so defensive over this either. It's like he spent his entire life building the server box, and the moment that someone says it isn't "perfect" he gets super defensive and starts randomly banning people.


I like this server. It's fun to play on this server. I put up with a lot of the lag because I like this server. I also complain about the lag because I like this server. This is the same case for everyone. They want to enjoy the server when it's running at it's most optimal state.

I'm sorry most of this post is a rant, but this is a real issue that I don't feel is properly being looked at. It's being ignored and swept under a rug while anyone caught watching is being tied up and thrown in a cellar. Please stop doing that, it's kinda rude.

 

[leftovers5]

I've had my all time ups and downs with the levels of lag on the server, some server related, some client related. I doubt you have a perfect connection unless you live nearby the server, and even then it's unlikely. If it's really as excessive as you claim it to be, I wonder what your specs are in comparison to mine (mine being a mac & a laptop).

Nonetheless, I find that the worst scenarios result when there are 90+ players online.

 

[Danda]

To clarify TPS refers to processing and how fast the server is running so 20/20 TPS means the server itself isn't lagging. The problems here are a result of network lag which is not something we can control considering we're hosted in a data center. I generally have no problems when it comes to lag which means it's likely your connection to the server. I'm not saying it's something on your end either it could just be something going wrong on transit to the server but the issue isn't with the server specifically.

 

[Delfofthebla]

I've had my all time ups and downs with the levels of lag on the server, some server related, some client related. I doubt you have a perfect connection unless you live nearby the server, and even then it's unlikely. If it's really as excessive as you claim it to be, I wonder what your specs are in comparison to mine (mine being a mac & a laptop).

Nonetheless, I find that the worst scenarios result when there are 90+ players online.

I know the difference between FPS induced lag (Having a low end computer) and network lag. My computer's specs are in the high tier, and I never have any actual FPS lag.

Of course I have had my share of client side lag too, but that's not something that I am mentioning here. The only kind of lag I am talking about, is the kind of lag that I can get 2+ people to agree that they are experiencing at the EXACT same time that I am.

I am referring to when mobs freeze in place, and they don't take any attacks and don't attack me.
When I'm in skirmishes and everybody suddenly stops moving, only to teleport 30 blocks away.
When I'm running down a bridge, and then all of the sudden I am placed 30-60 blocks back.

Anyone with logs of [o] chat could testify this. Anytime there is any kind of lag, [o] chat is lit up with complaints.

"Anyone get that rubberband just now?"
"Wooooah rubberbanded hardcore"
"Anyone else just get that?"


If it was just me having this issue, I wouldn't have created this report. If I was the only one with the problem, I wouldn't try to be an ass about it. Every time Kainzo says "It's client side", I check with multiple people to ensure that is not the case, and it is never a solitary experience. Others are always right there with me, having the exact same issues.

 

[Delfofthebla]

To clarify TPS refers to processing and how fast the server is running so 20/20 TPS means the server itself isn't lagging. The problems here are a result of network lag which is not something we can control considering we're hosted in a data center. I generally have no problems when it comes to lag which means it's likely your connection to the server. I'm not saying it's something on your end either it could just be something going wrong on transit to the server but the issue isn't with the server specifically.

This is why I brought up the multiple server IP points.

Anyone with a command prompt can tracert the Herocraft IP's and see that they take several different routes to the server. For all of these routes to have issues at the exact same time, with people located in completely different sectors of the world, is a tad unlikely.

I am more inclined to believe it is an issue with the hosting server, otherwise so many people wouldn't have the issues at the same time.

 

[Templar_James]

It's all minecraft dude the server they are using is a great one minecraft is just a shit coded game all that's to it.

 

[Delfofthebla]

It's all minecraft dude the server they are using is a great one minecraft is just a shit coded game all that's to it.

I cannot disagree with that, but my point on how we, the server, are treated when we are experiencing lag, still stands.

If there's any way to fix the lag, that'd be great, I'd like to see that done, if at all possible.
If there isn't, then just tell us straight to our face. Don't tell us it's "client side" and then mute us in the chat we were talking in. (Happens all the time.)

 

[Kainzo]

90% of the time "lag" is client side or connection based. That's a fact.

When we have 20/20 TPS on the server side, it's not the minecraft hardware failing. It's either a routing issue, client side issue - or some moronic code hiccup.

If we have 120+ players on, you can bet that our CPU is getting HAMMERED. This may not equate to "spikes" but it could equate to an overall slow down. Other times you may see Nocheatplus hiccuping around these high numbers.

Either way, screaming about it in chat will surely get you muted. There are things out of our control and I won't stand for the jumping up and down when there's no fucking point.

If and when I can fix all of your issues I will. Until then, you can express your civil unrest here, on the forums in a civil manner. NOT IN GAME AS LOUD AS YOU CAN.

 

[Delfofthebla]

When we have 20/20 TPS on the server side, it's not the minecraft hardware failing. It's either a routing issue, client side issue - or some moronic code hiccup.

Routing issues are server issues though. If we have 20/20 TPS I understand that it isn't necessarily the hardware that is causing lag. But just because you clear one flag doesn't mean you clear another. If we're getting bad routes to the server, then maybe you've got a bad host.

Even after saying that though, I believe the issue is either Minecraft or server-hardware related, and here's why:

In my years of experiencing "client side" lag, there has always been one consistent factor. If I experiencing network lag and it is on my end, the server still continues its' business while I am left in the dust. This means that any other players that aren't having client side lag will continue to interact with the server as usual. Mobs will still move around and attack players. Players will still be able to attack other players, but I, the person who is lagging, will be unable to interact with the server. After the lag spike has finished, I would play "catch up" with the server, and anything that occurred to my character during that time will all happen in one big burst. This is not how I experience lag in Herocraft.

On Herocraft, when the server lags, mobs stand still. Players stop interacting with other players. The whole god damn world comes to a halt. Sometimes this causes players to rubberband backwards several tens of blocks. Sometimes it doesn't and all players will simply "teleport" to their client-side positions. Either way, it's not what I typically view as client-side lag.

I have been playing online games for 12 years now. For those past 12 years, what I just described is how I have experienced all client-side lag. The only game I have ever played that caused client side lag to effect the entire server is "Warcraft III". Unless you're telling me Minecraft operates on the same principle, I still think there is an issue.

Why do multiple people experience these lag spikes at the same time?
Why do multiple people rubberband at the exact same time?
Why does all server processing (mobs/player interaction) come to screeching halt during the lag spikes?
Why does all of this happen so frequency?

Either way, screaming about it in chat will surely get you muted. There are things out of our control and I won't stand for the jumping up and down when there's no fucking point.

If and when I can fix all of your issues I will. Until then, you can express your civil unrest here, on the forums in a civil manner. NOT IN GAME AS LOUD AS YOU CAN.

You're implying I was typing in all caps or spamming to the point it would be considering "yelling". I was doing no such thing. I spoke of lag, and I stated that my whole town was experiencing it. You refuted, telling me my whole town was having "client side lag" and then told us to restart our clients more often. After which you restarted the server.

While the server was down, we all restarted our clients, (even though we do this often already), and waited for the server to come back up. Once it came back up, I reported that it was still not fixed for any of us, even though we had restarted our clients. Shortly after, there was --what appeared to be-- a server-wide rubberband spike (which at least 2 other people experienced and spoke in chat about at the same time.) I too spoke out, and said something along the lines of "rubberbanded hard." This is when you muted me and told me to make a bug report.

I understand why you would be frustrated with people jumping up and down for no reason, and I am not attempting to do that to piss you off. Hell, I don't even think that's even remotely close to what I was doing. And for that reason I think the mute was totally uncalled for. I'm sorry if I was upsetting you with my reports, but I had no ill intentions--I wasn't bitching for the sake of bitching. I just felt like you were saying my entire town (6 or so people online at the time) had shit internet/computers and it was all our faults. As if you were ignoring the fact that we were experiencing lag simply because the server reported 20/20 TPS. It was really upsetting and I feel as though I was treated unfairly simply for voicing my opinion.

I understand that if you have no means to fix the problem on the spot and there's nothing else you can do about it, we can't do anything but shut up and go home. But you never tell us this. You tell us it's client side and then proceed to ignore any other complaints. If we have no reason to believe that it "can't be fixed", of course we're going to talk about it. Because sometimes you do find a way to fix it. It's because of that slim ray of hope that people bring it up whenever they can. We all, deep down, hold a wish that you can magically fix all of our problems and make everything right again. I just wish you would understand that a little bit more.

 

[Templar_James]

That's a lot of typing please summarize...

 

[Danda]

Like I've said before it's not the server's hardware because it's not EVERYONE online that's having the issues. While yes it is a group of people that just shows that there's something along the line you guys are connecting through that's having an issue. Just because the problem isn't at your computer doesn't mean it's the server.

 

[Kainzo]

The only game I have ever played that caused client side lag to effect the entire server is "Warcraft III".

Not sure what you're speaking about... but that isn't how a client / server works. Someone is hosting the server in that client / server match up. IE, the CLIENT is LAGGING and it IS the server.
That's why games like that suffered, because there was no universal server system. Here we have one and it's beefy.

Routing issues are server issues though.

110% incorrect. That's like saying its google's fault if the internet goes down.
Routing issues are in fact the ISP / Data center / Gateway's issue. It is very common place for an upstream provider to go down - and then shovel the connections onto their backup.


Anywho, I work in this nearly everyday, so why should I know what's going on, right?
Do not bring this up in game again - it will be muted/ignored - it is not the place to have a long drawn out debate and that is the exact reason why we have these forums.

 

[Aundora]

I live right next to the server and I still have lag so I don't see how this is a client side issue... Although I know you try your best to stop lag. We ALL have loads of lag on the server

 

[Aundora]

I just wish there wasn't so much block lag and all the lag while pvping... That has to be server side considering everyone experiences it. I'm done bitching now

 

[northeaster345]

Not sure what you're speaking about... but that isn't how a client / server works. Someone is hosting the server in that client / server match up. IE, the CLIENT is LAGGING and it IS the server.
That's why games like that suffered, because there was no universal server system. Here we have one and it's beefy.

110% incorrect. That's like saying its google's fault if the internet goes down.
Routing issues are in fact the ISP / Data center / Gateway's issue. It is very common place for an upstream provider to go down - and then shovel the connections onto their backup.

I think people are mixing up terminology here, when you say the problem is client side, you don't necessarily mean the problem is with someone's computer, since we've been having a lot of DNS issues. People tend to think that everything that's not their computer is an issue with the "server".
Or maybe I'm reading this wrong myself

 

[Kainzo]

Yeppers.
Truth be told that the 1.4 update sucks a massive one. In this particular case - I think it may be Nocheatplus having massive issues. But here's why.

1) Staff (mod/admin+) have certain exemptions from NoCheatplus. So they don't get the "pull back" that Nocheat brings in.
2) Players do not have this exemption, so they must abide by what Nocheatplus tells them to do, INCLUDING bringing them back to their spot if they "think" they did something they shouldn't.
3) If a network hiccup occurs, the CLIENT can't send information to the server for whatever reason. Which NoCheatplus thinks the player lagging is actually hacking, so it rubber-bands them.

This is the most likely case here. Now why is it happening now on 1.4.5? I haven't a clue. It's not something I directly control and I can only configure nocheat so far before allowing hacks.

What do you want, a server without protection and less lag or a server with protection and a little lag?

 

[Angyles]

There's so much lag cause everything is attracted to the north poles




^ makes total sense

Okay Templar_James

 

[Templar_James]

Okay Templar_James

Nobody likes jokes anymore...

 

[Aundora]

Is it possible to get a different plugin like nocheat that won't lag?

 

[mightymice24]

I personally quit playing on the main server due to the lag and kainzo's attitude towards it. He wants to say everything else is to blame when the truth is that this server is the laggiest server I've ever played on. How can minecraft not being optimized or peoples computers be to blame when this is hands down a herocraft issue. Lag is the main thing herocraft is known for.