Suggestion Bounty rigging's little brother needs to be put down.

[Ice_Burner]

There is a lack of real pvp. If you were here for the beginning of the map you would understand the difference. Even the 4v9's that we have won this map(which aren't nearly as common as the fights we had daily) don't compare to the 10v10s etc we had when there were active pvp towns. My town used to have 10-20 pvpers online regularly. Pretty much everyone from my town including myself quit because of the lack of real pvp. The server cannot support large pvp groups atm.

Noob killing was non-existent at the beginning of the map because the pvpers fought each other not pve'rs.

#BringBack2ManIndarWithYouAndRshooter

 

[LordZelkova]

There is a lack of real pvp. If you were here for the beginning of the map you would understand the difference. Even the 4v9's that we have won this map(which aren't nearly as common as the fights we had daily) don't compare to the 10v10s etc we had when there were active pvp towns. My town used to have 10-20 pvpers online regularly. Pretty much everyone from my town including myself quit because of the lack of real pvp. The server has no large pvp group, and as a result no competition. No competition=boredom. It is up to the new players to learn the basics of pvp, and hopefully enough veterans stick around. Unfortunately, there aren't any pvp towns, so new players cannot learn from pvpers.

Noob killing was non-existent at the beginning of the map because the pvpers fought each other not pve'rs.

On the issue of PvP town, any time a new one IS made, it's almost always raided and stormed. People are killed while the town tries to build itself.
There are also 0 incentives for making a town on PvP instead of PvE.

 

[xMJay]

On the issue of PvP town, any time a new one IS made, it's almost always raided and stormed. People are killed while the town tries to build itself.
There are also 0 incentives for making a town on PvP instead of PvE.

There is 0 incentive for pve players/noobs because there is PVE. I can easily say that I have 0 incentive to make a town in PvE. Back when there wasn't PVE, PVE players had no problem grouping with pvpers and forming healthy towns that prospered. My town was camped daily at the beginning of the map; however, we didn't quit. Anevia still plays after being camped extensively. Back on Haven we used to recruit noobs to help us against larger towns.

Obviously, with PvE HC has become much more carebear friendly. With Kainzo going back to a full PvP map there might be a chance for the pvers to see what they are missing. If you want to build with no presence of danger go play vanilla mc. The pve players I know enjoy the danger.

 

[Areorah]

I think there should be a system where if you want to be a PvP or PvE or both. You could switch once every 24 hours. As a PvPer, you can PvP other players. As a PvEr, you can do dungeons. As of both, you can PvP and PvE. Make a system like this, not everyone wants to PvP at the start or even at all, but they may change there mind. Maybe even add a PvP locator, so you can locate other PvPers.

 

[_DELETED_10000]

On the issue of PvP town, any time a new one IS made, it's almost always raided and stormed. People are killed while the town tries to build itself.
There are also 0 incentives for making a town on PvP instead of PvE.

Off-Topic:

Which is why I disagree strongly with the map going full PvP. War is the answer for allowing PvErs to grow, and PvPers to still kill.

As for the other comments on the lack of PvP, that's a perfectly legitimate stance to have, but isn't really a valid point in the discussion against abuse of the bounty system. I'm not sure what sparked that conversation. lol

 

[Nashah]

There is 0 incentive for pve players/noobs because there is PVE. I can easily say that I have 0 incentive to make a town in PvE. Back when there wasn't PVE, PVE players had no problem grouping with pvpers and forming healthy towns that prospered. My town was camped daily at the beginning of the map; however, we didn't quit. Anevia still plays after being camped extensively. Back on Haven we used to recruit noobs to help us against larger towns.

Obviously, with PvE HC has become much more carebear friendly. With Kainzo going back to a full PvP map there might be a chance for the pvers to see what they are missing. If you want to build with no presence of danger go play vanilla mc. The pve players I know enjoy the danger.

Yeah it wasn't bad for pve players that joined towns back on previous maps, it was a problem for anyone who wanted to play solo or with a very small group of friends though. This could be counted as a good or bad thing based upon your point of view, it made playing with others a necessity to survive.

One thing I have noticed on this map so far is how there are more small towns (well mostly remnants of what used to be towns) not behind a large wall or underground as which was commonplace on previous maps. I've even seen some that are well protected that leave their doors open still for others to come in and check it out. Personally I love this, I'm horrible at building things but really enjoy seeing what others can do.

I agree though that the pvp scene is in a sorta sorry state right now, though I think it's due to more then just there being a pve area on the map. Another thing that has changed is that what towns that do exist are far smaller/weaker then what has been present on some previous maps. Simply turning the whole map to pvp enabled won't fix things.

Edit: Sorry, sorta went off topic there :x

 

[Clawscript]

As a response to the original post:
True, it seems there's been an outburst of exploiting the bounty system recently, and the culprits were often the same bunch.
Not only that, but said culprits often blamed others for bounty rigging with no particular proof or reason. I think that's just hypocritical.
That's my observation...

 

[ncbugboy]

For the third time this week I've been asked to come online to see someone being harassed by a group of people. Instantly I received multiple messages asking me about the rules, and some people reported some spawners and other issues to me. I don't know why, but it appears I am some sort of go-to for help lately...


Onward to the subject at hand.


Bounty rigging, in the rules is stated as being:

• Killing friends for exp or any other resource or statistic, aka boosting.
  • This includes claiming bounties on friends, allies and fellow town members.

However, bounty rigging is obvious. Too obvious to do repeatedly. Loopholes allow friends to remain un-connected in the game, yet be on TS or Skype while rigging and fly under the radar. While that is still occurring, a new (or returning) fad has become 'bounty killstealing'. With the advent of self-tagging becoming against the rules, the only thing left is kill stealing to quickly raise KDR.


John and Mike are bored. A new bounty appears on Sally. John accepts the bounty, and joins Mike's party. They are on Skype or TS, and figure out where Sally will appear after she dies. John then hits Sally, and lets Mike kill her. They both run to the closest GY, and kill her on the way to it. Once they reach the GY, they continue to tag off of each other to repeatedly kill Sally without clearing the bounty. The player is locked at the GY until they deign to provide a moment's rest to berate her in /o, or respond to her pleas in /o.

In my humble opinion, this is plainly and simply rigging and abusing the bounty system in order to boost KDR.


This is NOT a simple case of a group of bounty hunters going out, and one forgetting to accept the bounty or accidentally killing the target. This is a case of what is usually a group of players, going out with the intent to harass, boost off of, make fun of, and hopefully force what are usually low level or new players, to ragequit after an explosion in /o. And it usually involves a third party setting up the bounties, friends of the hunters, for this specific purpose.

I myself have seen at least 7 instances of bounty killstealing, not including solely GY camping, and then learned of the most recent one tonight, which seems to be one in a string of killstealing-GY-camping harassment against that particular player.


What is most abhorrent about the whole situation is the fact that a mod(s) are participating in it. It is clearly a grey area, as if you get really technical with the words, they aren't friends with who they're killing, so it's not against the rules. They are, however, friends with each other, orchestrating a situation wherein they can boost each other's KDR using the bounty system.


This has a clear and obvious affect on new players, causing them to quit the server before they've even began to play. It's one thing to offer a TP (non-confirmed) and then to disband and kill the new players once. It's another to harass them while skirting the bounty rules and push them to the point that they never return to the server.


My suggestion is to put an end to this nonsense.

Add to the rule that you can not repeatedly kill a party member's bounty target while not clearing/claiming the bounty, in order to boost your KDR.

Secondary suggestion: Remove KDR and implement a karma based system. Let them get nothing from farming new or level one players.


[USERGROUP=47][USERGROUP=47]@Rules Council[/USERGROUP][/USERGROUP]

Now that i think about, on bastion they had a system where you couldn't kill players that were below level 10 combat class. it would be nice to see this added again. I also think that you should not be able to place a bounty on players that have just joined, you will have to wait a week until after their join date to place bounties.

 

[Egorh]

Now that i think about, on bastion they had a system where you couldn't kill players that were below level 10 combat class. it would be nice to see this added again. I also think that you should not be able to place a bounty on players that have just joined, you will have to wait a week until after their join date to place bounties.

No combat below lvl 10 causes more grief than good.

 

[_DELETED_10000]

No combat below lvl 10 causes more grief than good.

Indeed it does. It would allow raiders, treasure hunters, and the like to switch to a new class and run about with immunity.

A week of immunity from bounties would be too much, too. There are some people who have been playing the server three times as long as me and throw a fit when they're hit in TD with a bounty on because they didn't even know how they worked.

The answer is more information and punishments for abuse.

 

[Xelarator1]

Indeed it does. It would allow raiders, treasure hunters, and the like to switch to a new class and run about with immunity.

A week of immunity from bounties would be too much, too. There are some people who have been playing the server three times as long as me and throw a fit when they're hit in TD with a bounty on because they didn't even know how they worked.

The answer is more information and punishments for abuse.

There is enough information on the wiki about bounties, if you take a second to read the entire page, and the only ones who can punish for abuse are either away, inactive due to irl problems, or are "abusing" bounties. I say "abusing" because there is really no definite rule on this, yet.

@Rules Council
What are all of your thoughts on this?

 

[_DELETED_10000]

There is enough information on the wiki about bounties, if you take a second to read the entire page, and the only ones who can punish for abuse are either away, inactive due to irl problems, or are "abusing" bounties. I say "abusing" because there is really no definite rule on this, yet.

[USERGROUP=47]@Rules Council[/USERGROUP]
What are all of your thoughts on this?

Sorry, I meant a more informed playerbase. Although, most questions aren't brought up, and most answers aren't found until something has gone awry. The information is mostly out there, for sure, but getting people to read it is the hard part. Fortunately, it seems they are adding more staff, which will hopefully help more information get out there.

Yavool of the Rules Council has replied and asked for review by Kainzo and Admins for consideration, so I suppose that's an indication of agreeance on some level.

 

[Clawscript]

Here's a quick suggestion to the Rules folk:
-Make a time limit of, say, 24 hours before someone can be bountied again (that shouldn't include the increase of existing bounties, though).
-If someone gets killed by players too soon after respawning (i.e.: the killers camp the nearest revival zone), they would be automatically brought to the nearest sanctum upon revival. Of course, it may bother some people to get farther from their homes, but it would get them away from their killers at the same time. Anyways, 10 souls isn't such a big cost for a recall, when you compare it to being camped by KDR-hungry psychos!
-Since this could be considered, in some cases, as harassing a player, you could easily accuse the aforementioned killers of harassment.

 

[Xhazed]

is the map really becoming full pvp?? cause if it is I will have to buy a new account gave out xblazed

 

[iAlchemist]

Here's a quick suggestion to the Rules folk:
-Make a time limit of, say, 24 hours before someone can be bountied again (that shouldn't include the increase of existing bounties, though).
-If someone gets killed by players too soon after respawning (i.e.: the killers camp the nearest revival zone), they would be automatically brought to the nearest sanctum upon revival. Of course, it may bother some people to get farther from their homes, but it would get them away from their killers at the same time. Anyways, 10 souls isn't such a big cost for a recall, when you compare it to being camped by KDR-hungry psychos!
-Since this could be considered, in some cases, as harassing a player, you could easily accuse the aforementioned killers of harassment.

I wrote an exploit report on it, but it seems to be ignored or something. Of course I only wrote it a day ago, but I'd have thought I would have gotten a response by now

 

[_DELETED_10000]

I wrote an exploit report on it, but it seems to be ignored or something. Of course I only wrote it a day ago, but I'd have thought I would have gotten a response by now

Tim is away, and Kainzo is swamped. The situation you are putting into the light is a very delicate one, and will probably take time to respond to.

I have things hanging in the wind, too, but patience is a virtue and people have lives.

 

[Yavool]

The magic words "temporarily disabled" could work here. If it is exploitable, better to remove it until it can be fixed, imho.

-yav

 

[LightTheAbsol]

There is a lack of real pvp. If you were here for the beginning of the map you would understand the difference. Even the 4v9's that we have won this map(which aren't nearly as common as the fights we had daily) don't compare to the 10v10s etc we had when there were active pvp towns. My town used to have 10-20 pvpers online regularly. Pretty much everyone from my town including myself quit because of the lack of real pvp. The server has no large pvp group, and as a result no competition. No competition=boredom. It is up to the new players to learn the basics of pvp, and hopefully enough veterans stick around. Unfortunately, there aren't any pvp towns, so new players cannot learn from pvpers.

Noob killing was non-existent at the beginning of the map because the pvpers fought each other not pve'rs.

If you keep killing the noobs, why would they stick around to become better pvpers? It's the reason people like me, who are actually slightly not shit at pvp, live in pve. We don't like getting 24/7 camped because you're 'bored'. Then again, I would join a half active pvp town, if I didn't have the obligation to stay with @devotedworker because loyalty.

 

[devotedworker]

If you keep killing the noobs, why would they stick around to become better pvpers? It's the reason people like me, who are actually slightly not shit at pvp, live in pve. We don't like getting 24/7 camped because you're 'bored'. Then again, I would join a half active pvp town, if I didn't have the obligation to stay with @devotedworker because loyalty.

Yaaay ^_^

 

[Air_Restraint]

For the third time this week I've been asked to come online to see someone being harassed by a group of people. Instantly I received multiple messages asking me about the rules, and some people reported some spawners and other issues to me. I don't know why, but it appears I am some sort of go-to for help lately...


Onward to the subject at hand.


Bounty rigging, in the rules is stated as being:

• Killing friends for exp or any other resource or statistic, aka boosting.
  • This includes claiming bounties on friends, allies and fellow town members.

However, bounty rigging is obvious. Too obvious to do repeatedly. Loopholes allow friends to remain un-connected in the game, yet be on TS or Skype while rigging and fly under the radar. While that is still occurring, a new (or returning) fad has become 'bounty killstealing'. With the advent of self-tagging becoming against the rules, the only thing left is kill stealing to quickly raise KDR.


John and Mike are bored. A new bounty appears on Sally. John accepts the bounty, and joins Mike's party. They are on Skype or TS, and figure out where Sally will appear after she dies. John then hits Sally, and lets Mike kill her. They both run to the closest GY, and kill her on the way to it. Once they reach the GY, they continue to tag off of each other to repeatedly kill Sally without clearing the bounty. The player is locked at the GY until they deign to provide a moment's rest to berate her in /o, or respond to her pleas in /o.

In my humble opinion, this is plainly and simply rigging and abusing the bounty system in order to boost KDR.


This is NOT a simple case of a group of bounty hunters going out, and one forgetting to accept the bounty or accidentally killing the target. This is a case of what is usually a group of players, going out with the intent to harass, boost off of, make fun of, and hopefully force what are usually low level or new players, to ragequit after an explosion in /o. And it usually involves a third party setting up the bounties, friends of the hunters, for this specific purpose.

I myself have seen at least 7 instances of bounty killstealing, not including solely GY camping, and then learned of the most recent one tonight, which seems to be one in a string of killstealing-GY-camping harassment against that particular player.


What is most abhorrent about the whole situation is the fact that a mod(s) are participating in it. It is clearly a grey area, as if you get really technical with the words, they aren't friends with who they're killing, so it's not against the rules. They are, however, friends with each other, orchestrating a situation wherein they can boost each other's KDR using the bounty system.


This has a clear and obvious affect on new players, causing them to quit the server before they've even began to play. It's one thing to offer a TP (non-confirmed) and then to disband and kill the new players once. It's another to harass them while skirting the bounty rules and push them to the point that they never return to the server.


My suggestion is to put an end to this nonsense.

Add to the rule that you can not repeatedly kill a party member's bounty target while not clearing/claiming the bounty, in order to boost your KDR.

Secondary suggestion: Remove KDR and implement a karma based system. Let them get nothing from farming new or level one players.


[USERGROUP=47][USERGROUP=47]@Rules Council[/USERGROUP][/USERGROUP]

This wouldn't be under bounty rigging though. There would just need to be a set rule for graveyard camping. I think there use to be. but I believe they took it out. @TimForReal