Suggestion Bounty rigging's little brother needs to be put down.

[_DELETED_10000]

For the third time this week I've been asked to come online to see someone being harassed by a group of people. Instantly I received multiple messages asking me about the rules, and some people reported some spawners and other issues to me. I don't know why, but it appears I am some sort of go-to for help lately...


Onward to the subject at hand.


Bounty rigging, in the rules is stated as being:

• Killing friends for exp or any other resource or statistic, aka boosting.
  • This includes claiming bounties on friends, allies and fellow town members.

However, bounty rigging is obvious. Too obvious to do repeatedly. Loopholes allow friends to remain un-connected in the game, yet be on TS or Skype while rigging and fly under the radar. While that is still occurring, a new (or returning) fad has become 'bounty killstealing'. With the advent of self-tagging becoming against the rules, the only thing left is kill stealing to quickly raise KDR.


John and Mike are bored. A new bounty appears on Sally. John accepts the bounty, and joins Mike's party. They are on Skype or TS, and figure out where Sally will appear after she dies. John then hits Sally, and lets Mike kill her. They both run to the closest GY, and kill her on the way to it. Once they reach the GY, they continue to tag off of each other to repeatedly kill Sally without clearing the bounty. The player is locked at the GY until they deign to provide a moment's rest to berate her in /o, or respond to her pleas in /o.

In my humble opinion, this is plainly and simply rigging and abusing the bounty system in order to boost KDR.


This is NOT a simple case of a group of bounty hunters going out, and one forgetting to accept the bounty or accidentally killing the target. This is a case of what is usually a group of players, going out with the intent to harass, boost off of, make fun of, and hopefully force what are usually low level or new players, to ragequit after an explosion in /o. And it usually involves a third party setting up the bounties, friends of the hunters, for this specific purpose.

I myself have seen at least 7 instances of bounty killstealing, not including solely GY camping, and then learned of the most recent one tonight, which seems to be one in a string of killstealing-GY-camping harassment against that particular player.


What is most abhorrent about the whole situation is the fact that a mod(s) are participating in it. It is clearly a grey area, as if you get really technical with the words, they aren't friends with who they're killing, so it's not against the rules. They are, however, friends with each other, orchestrating a situation wherein they can boost each other's KDR using the bounty system.


This has a clear and obvious affect on new players, causing them to quit the server before they've even began to play. It's one thing to offer a TP (non-confirmed) and then to disband and kill the new players once. It's another to harass them while skirting the bounty rules and push them to the point that they never return to the server.


My suggestion is to put an end to this nonsense.

Add to the rule that you can not repeatedly kill a party member's bounty target while not clearing/claiming the bounty, in order to boost your KDR.

Secondary suggestion: Remove KDR and implement a karma based system. Let them get nothing from farming new or level one players.


[USERGROUP=47]@Rules Council[/USERGROUP]

 

[iAlchemist]

This happened to me yesterday. I wasn't the one who was loop killed, but I was friends with the person who was, and I was present for most of the event.

Said player, has only been on this server for 6 days. And in those 6 days, he's been bountied 5 times by the same person for no better reason than that he wouldn't tell some players his location. From then on, he's been bountied multiple times, every time he's logged on. This isn't the first time this was done to him this week. They do it to plenty of other players, as well. I will not list names, but I will state that a mod was fully involved in this, by partaking in the act, along with the other players. There was no fair fight, there was no escape. He couldn't recall from the graveyard because they kept using his bounty to attack him.

This sort of behavior, to a new player, is completely atrocious. If you want people to leave the server, then this is how you do it. This is essentially harassment of a player, and shouldn't be legal.

We have a video of the actions as well, I'll post a link when I find it.

 

[Belisarius1991]

Well written and precisely put. I totally agree. This is what can kill a server. We should be helping new players. Instead, I so often see new players bountied as soon as they start asking for help, even if it is in the wrong chat. Now, if I am a new player and within the first 30 minutes of being on the server I get stalked and killed, not even knowing much about what I need to do, I am likely going to quit. This is not in the best interest of the server.

I don't spend a ton of time in the trade district but I have started noticing groups of players doing similar things to what you are describing. I think it needs to stop. It is, as you say, nonsense. I think both suggestions are good ideas.

I just read iAchemist's post and this is what will be the end of this server if something is not done. We need new players. But these type of players described above are running them off. Furthermore, it discourages people like me who already play and love the server. I'm a fair guy. I don't mind pvp and killing and hunting people. It's a lot of fun. But not this. This is wrong. And certainly not something a mod should be involved in, just to be honest. It should be instinctively seen as wrong.

 

[JupiterRome]

Reading the title I thought this post would be stupid. I think that this is clearly abusing the bounty system and it probably already has made players quit.

 

[Trazil]

For the third time this week I've been asked to come online to see someone being harassed by a group of people. Instantly I received multiple messages asking me about the rules, and some people reported some spawners and other issues to me. I don't know why, but it appears I am some sort of go-to for help lately...


Onward to the subject at hand.


Bounty rigging, in the rules is stated as being:

• Killing friends for exp or any other resource or statistic, aka boosting.
  • This includes claiming bounties on friends, allies and fellow town members.

However, bounty rigging is obvious. Too obvious to do repeatedly. Loopholes allow friends to remain un-connected in the game, yet be on TS or Skype while rigging and fly under the radar. While that is still occurring, a new (or returning) fad has become 'bounty killstealing'. With the advent of self-tagging becoming against the rules, the only thing left is kill stealing to quickly raise KDR.


John and Mike are bored. A new bounty appears on Sally. John accepts the bounty, and joins Mike's party. They are on Skype or TS, and figure out where Sally will appear after she dies. John then hits Sally, and lets Mike kill her. They both run to the closest GY, and kill her on the way to it. Once they reach the GY, they continue to tag off of each other to repeatedly kill Sally without clearing the bounty. The player is locked at the GY until they deign to provide a moment's rest to berate her in /o, or respond to her pleas in /o.

In my humble opinion, this is plainly and simply rigging and abusing the bounty system in order to boost KDR.


This is NOT a simple case of a group of bounty hunters going out, and one forgetting to accept the bounty or accidentally killing the target. This is a case of what is usually a group of players, going out with the intent to harass, boost off of, make fun of, and hopefully force what are usually low level or new players, to ragequit after an explosion in /o. And it usually involves a third party setting up the bounties, friends of the hunters, for this specific purpose.

I myself have seen at least 7 instances of bounty killstealing, not including simply GY camping, and then learned of the most recent one tonight, which seems to be one in a string of killstealing-GY-camping harassment against that particular player.


What is most abhorrent about the whole situation is the fact that a mod(s) are participating in it. It is clearly a grey area, as if you get really technical with the words, they aren't friends with who they're killing, so it's not against the rules. They are, however, friends with each other, orchestrating a situation wherein they can boost each other's KDR using the bounty system.


This has a clear and obvious affect on new players, causing them to quit the server before they've even began to play. It's one thing to offer a TP (non-confirmed) and then to disband and kill the new players once. It's another to harass them while skirting the bounty rules and push them to the point that they never return to the server.


My suggestion is to put an end to this nonsense.

Add to the rule that you can not repeatedly kill a party member's bounty target while not clearing/claiming the bounty, in order to boost your KDR.

Secondary suggestion: Remove KDR and implement a karma based system. Let them get nothing from farming new or level one players.


[USERGROUP=47]@Rules Council[/USERGROUP]

You do know how Karma used to work while it was implemented on Bastion right? players start with neutral Karma and can be killed to gain negative karma, to gain good karma you had to kill someone with negative karma. I do wish karma would be implemented again, maybe with better rewards/actual consequences, but it will NOT help with people camping others. I do agree that there should be a limit on how many times you can kill someone using the bounty system to tag them, but only limited to when they are tagged from a bounty. There are plenty of ways to hide and escape when you cannot be tagged everywhere.

@JupiterRome I'm surprised you didn't flame this because i could easily see you doing it

 

[Ice_Burner]

This happened to me yesterday. I wasn't the one who was loop killed, but I was friends with the person who was, and I was present for most of the event.

Said player, has only been on this server for 6 days. And in those 6 days, he's been bountied 5 times by the same person for no better reason than that he wouldn't tell some players his location. From then on, he's been bountied multiple times, every time he's logged on. This isn't the first time this was done to him this week. They do it to plenty of other players, as well. I will not list names, but I will state that a mod was fully involved in this, by partaking in the act, along with the other players. There was no fair fight, there was no escape. He couldn't recall from the graveyard because they kept using his bounty to attack him.

This sort of behavior, to a new player, is completely atrocious. If you want people to leave the server, then this is how you do it. This is essentially harassment of a player, and shouldn't be legal.

We have a video of the actions as well, I'll post a link when I find it.

*cough* Irishman *cough*

 

[Yavool]

@Knirps well written. If you have an issue with a mod abusing a loophole, please start an exploit thread and handle that in private. Thank you for not naming names in this thread.

@Kainzo @Admins please review and consider implementation.

-yav

For the third time this week I've been asked to come online to see someone being harassed by a group of people. Instantly I received multiple messages asking me about the rules, and some people reported some spawners and other issues to me. I don't know why, but it appears I am some sort of go-to for help lately...


Onward to the subject at hand.


Bounty rigging, in the rules is stated as being:

• Killing friends for exp or any other resource or statistic, aka boosting.
  • This includes claiming bounties on friends, allies and fellow town members.

However, bounty rigging is obvious. Too obvious to do repeatedly. Loopholes allow friends to remain un-connected in the game, yet be on TS or Skype while rigging and fly under the radar. While that is still occurring, a new (or returning) fad has become 'bounty killstealing'. With the advent of self-tagging becoming against the rules, the only thing left is kill stealing to quickly raise KDR.


John and Mike are bored. A new bounty appears on Sally. John accepts the bounty, and joins Mike's party. They are on Skype or TS, and figure out where Sally will appear after she dies. John then hits Sally, and lets Mike kill her. They both run to the closest GY, and kill her on the way to it. Once they reach the GY, they continue to tag off of each other to repeatedly kill Sally without clearing the bounty. The player is locked at the GY until they deign to provide a moment's rest to berate her in /o, or respond to her pleas in /o.

In my humble opinion, this is plainly and simply rigging and abusing the bounty system in order to boost KDR.


This is NOT a simple case of a group of bounty hunters going out, and one forgetting to accept the bounty or accidentally killing the target. This is a case of what is usually a group of players, going out with the intent to harass, boost off of, make fun of, and hopefully force what are usually low level or new players, to ragequit after an explosion in /o. And it usually involves a third party setting up the bounties, friends of the hunters, for this specific purpose.

I myself have seen at least 7 instances of bounty killstealing, not including solely GY camping, and then learned of the most recent one tonight, which seems to be one in a string of killstealing-GY-camping harassment against that particular player.


What is most abhorrent about the whole situation is the fact that a mod(s) are participating in it. It is clearly a grey area, as if you get really technical with the words, they aren't friends with who they're killing, so it's not against the rules. They are, however, friends with each other, orchestrating a situation wherein they can boost each other's KDR using the bounty system.


This has a clear and obvious affect on new players, causing them to quit the server before they've even began to play. It's one thing to offer a TP (non-confirmed) and then to disband and kill the new players once. It's another to harass them while skirting the bounty rules and push them to the point that they never return to the server.


My suggestion is to put an end to this nonsense.

Add to the rule that you can not repeatedly kill a party member's bounty target while not clearing/claiming the bounty, in order to boost your KDR.

Secondary suggestion: Remove KDR and implement a karma based system. Let them get nothing from farming new or level one players.


[USERGROUP=47][USERGROUP=47]@Rules Council[/USERGROUP][/USERGROUP]

 

[_DELETED_10000]

@Knirps well written. If you have an issue with a mod abusing a loophole, please start an exploit thread and handle that in private. Thank you for not naming names in this thread.

@Kainzo [USERGROUP=9]@Admins[/USERGROUP] please review and consider implementation.

-yav

Of course, I never want to name and shame or any of that junk. It detracts from the overall message.

Thank you for the compliment. ^^

 

[ncbugboy]

For the third time this week I've been asked to come online to see someone being harassed by a group of people. Instantly I received multiple messages asking me about the rules, and some people reported some spawners and other issues to me. I don't know why, but it appears I am some sort of go-to for help lately...


Onward to the subject at hand.


Bounty rigging, in the rules is stated as being:

• Killing friends for exp or any other resource or statistic, aka boosting.
  • This includes claiming bounties on friends, allies and fellow town members.

However, bounty rigging is obvious. Too obvious to do repeatedly. Loopholes allow friends to remain un-connected in the game, yet be on TS or Skype while rigging and fly under the radar. While that is still occurring, a new (or returning) fad has become 'bounty killstealing'. With the advent of self-tagging becoming against the rules, the only thing left is kill stealing to quickly raise KDR.


John and Mike are bored. A new bounty appears on Sally. John accepts the bounty, and joins Mike's party. They are on Skype or TS, and figure out where Sally will appear after she dies. John then hits Sally, and lets Mike kill her. They both run to the closest GY, and kill her on the way to it. Once they reach the GY, they continue to tag off of each other to repeatedly kill Sally without clearing the bounty. The player is locked at the GY until they deign to provide a moment's rest to berate her in /o, or respond to her pleas in /o.

In my humble opinion, this is plainly and simply rigging and abusing the bounty system in order to boost KDR.


This is NOT a simple case of a group of bounty hunters going out, and one forgetting to accept the bounty or accidentally killing the target. This is a case of what is usually a group of players, going out with the intent to harass, boost off of, make fun of, and hopefully force what are usually low level or new players, to ragequit after an explosion in /o. And it usually involves a third party setting up the bounties, friends of the hunters, for this specific purpose.

I myself have seen at least 7 instances of bounty killstealing, not including solely GY camping, and then learned of the most recent one tonight, which seems to be one in a string of killstealing-GY-camping harassment against that particular player.


What is most abhorrent about the whole situation is the fact that a mod(s) are participating in it. It is clearly a grey area, as if you get really technical with the words, they aren't friends with who they're killing, so it's not against the rules. They are, however, friends with each other, orchestrating a situation wherein they can boost each other's KDR using the bounty system.


This has a clear and obvious affect on new players, causing them to quit the server before they've even began to play. It's one thing to offer a TP (non-confirmed) and then to disband and kill the new players once. It's another to harass them while skirting the bounty rules and push them to the point that they never return to the server.


My suggestion is to put an end to this nonsense.

Add to the rule that you can not repeatedly kill a party member's bounty target while not clearing/claiming the bounty, in order to boost your KDR.

Secondary suggestion: Remove KDR and implement a karma based system. Let them get nothing from farming new or level one players.


[USERGROUP=47][USERGROUP=47][USERGROUP=47][USERGROUP=47]@Rules Council[/USERGROUP][/USERGROUP][/USERGROUP][/USERGROUP]

They used to have a karma system if you didnt know. I would gladly have it added again to make it so that camping is not legal. The thing that makes me saddest is that some mods don't do much to stop it. They should help the new players, not abuse their newness.

 

[iAlchemist]

They used to have a karma system if you didnt know. I would gladly have it added again to make it so that camping is not legal. The thing that makes me saddest is that some mods don't do much to stop it. They should help the new players, not abuse their newness.

What saddens me is that not only do mod(s) not deal with this situation, but they also participate in it

 

[xMJay]

Knirps means ELO not karma. ELO is better than KDR, but would require the dismantling of the clan system.

 

[Nashah]

What saddens me is that not only do mod(s) not deal with this situation, but they also participate in it

Agreed. Even if this is a gray area a mod should be above doing something so shady.

 

[iAlchemist]

Agreed. Even if this is a gray area a mod should be above doing something so shady.

I'm working on an exploit report at the moment. Hopefully this will be dealt with.

 

[xMJay]

Secondary suggestion: Remove KDR and implement a karma based system. Let them get nothing from farming new or level one players.


[USERGROUP=47][USERGROUP=47][USERGROUP=47]@Rules Council[/USERGROUP][/USERGROUP][/USERGROUP]

Ok @LordZelkova please explain your little facepalm. Because you either didn't read what I said or have no idea what ELO and karma are.

 

[_DELETED_10000]

Knirps means ELO not karma. ELO is better than KDR, but would require the dismantling of the clan system.

I did not mean any one system. Karma is the easiest term to relate to without specifically picking a system.

Like most things on Herocraft, I would presume Kainzo would attempt a customized plugin to match his visions for the server, should this even be a desired system in the current map.

 

[xMJay]

I did not mean any one system. Karma is the easiest term to relate to without specifically picking a system.

Like most things on Herocraft, I would presume Kainzo would attempt a customized plugin to match his visions for the server, should this even be a desired system in the current map.

The only way to prevent noob killing would be to re-add either pvp immunity for new players or kdr penalties for killing civilians. Both have received negative feedback because they allow new accounts to troll/grief. PvP immune players can be used to harass players in a variety of ways while KDR penalties leads to players who purposely feed themselves to other players to lower their KDR.

With ELO there still will be noob killing; however, there would be less incentive for it as the gains wold be minimal for high ELO players. But, as I said previously a clan ranking system based on ELO would require a new plugin.

 

[LightTheAbsol]

This does need to be addressed, yea. I've had three or four new townmates get a bounty just for the hell of it, then they shortly quit. It kinda sucks for the new guys.

 

[xMJay]

The real culprit of these noob killings is not the KDR system, but the lack of real pvp. At the beginning of this map I would never noob kill because there were pvpers to fight. Since the majority of the player base is now pve, there is nothing for veterans to do other than kill noobs.

edit: Obviously, the bounty system allows for spawn killing, but having bounties work in protected zones is a step forward. For exploiting bounties for spawn killing, just make a rule preventing it.

 

[iAlchemist]

The real culprit of these noob killings is not the KDR system, but the lack of real pvp. At the beginning of this map I would never noob kill because there were pvpers to fight. Since the majority of the player base is now pve, there is nothing for veterans to do other than kill noobs.

edit: Obviously, the bounty system allows for spawn killing, but having bounties work in protected zones is a step forward. For exploiting bounties for spawn killing, just make a rule preventing it.

That's bull. The real culprit is players who can't have the self control to avoid hunting down easy prey. There is no lack of real pvp, that is a blatant excuse for their actions, which have no excuse. It was wrong. There is no excuse for it.

 

[xMJay]

That's bull. The real culprit is players who can't have the self control to avoid hunting down easy prey. There is no lack of real pvp, that is a blatant excuse for their actions, which have no excuse. It was wrong. There is no excuse for it.

There is a lack of real pvp. If you were here for the beginning of the map you would understand the difference. Even the 4v9's that we have won this map(which aren't nearly as common as the fights we had daily) don't compare to the 10v10s etc we had when there were active pvp towns. My town used to have 10-20 pvpers online regularly. Pretty much everyone from my town including myself quit because of the lack of real pvp. The server has no large pvp group, and as a result no competition. No competition=boredom. It is up to the new players to learn the basics of pvp, and hopefully enough veterans stick around. Unfortunately, there aren't any pvp towns, so new players cannot learn from pvpers.

Noob killing was non-existent at the beginning of the map because the pvpers fought each other not pve'rs.