Suggestion Beguiler compensation

[cschris54321]

So entangle got removed from Beguiler. I believe that it should get compensation, for example ice bolt. Ice bolt was very good for Beguilers because it had cc that went good with the aspect of cc Mage and it was a really good high skill ability. Beguiler is not at an all time low power level since they removed Plague-bomb a 325 damage aoe and replaced it with chaotic visions, dealing 150 with 40 int approx. This cut the damage in over half. This was compensated with the fact that they got entangle, which was great because it fit well with the beguiler cc class. Well, now they don't have that so now they got got 3 damage abilities and 2 cc abilities, both able to be instantly glitched out of , a glitch that has been around ever since the beginning of Piggify but i see only one person able to recreate the glitch now. One of their cc is melee range and lasts 1-2 second based on their charisma.

Charisma is a useless stat on Piggify unless you got your goon squad behind you and your trying to cc him until they get there, otherwise it only has to last until you blow your fireball and chaotic visions on them. Masspiggify and Beguile, the two abilities were charisma is useful on, scale terrible with it.

All in all, increase Charisma scaling on Beguile and Masspiggify, remove it from Piggify, add Icebolt, or make the skill "Void Tear" it is a potion that you throw, that is similar to holy water for cleric, it will aoe beguile them. Imagine.. "Kainzo used laughing gas" *break* and then you see 5 people dashing every wihch way, disorientated. Imagine the commotion in their Teamspeak! Imagine the chaos it will cause! "WHERE ARE YOU" "OMG WHAT IS HAPPENING?" Is Beguiler known for using Beguile? No, it is known for making you ride a piggy. Well, this is the kind of awesome spell Beguiler needs so people think "Ohh wow i want to go Beguiler that sounds like such a fun class!" it isn't even that much of a power spell as much as a fun spell. it is the kind of thing that makes you want to play on the server.

 

[pure_autism]

Beguiler was never supposed to have Entangle in the first place, it was a replacement for Piggify when it would crash the server, and no one got around to removing it until now.

This is just my opinion, but I think the last thing Beguiler needs is more damage and CC.

 

[cschris54321]

Beguiler was never supposed to have Entangle in the first place, it was a replacement for Piggify when it would crash the server, and no one got around to removing it until now.

This is just my opinion, but I think the last thing Beguiler needs is more damage and CC.

entangle was compensation for plaguecoomb and fauxbomb getting removed as well as piggify being glitched in my opinion.

 

[LightningCape]

Entangle was removed? Thank god. Hope people weren't rampaging with it like some people last map.

Cough* @ParadoxNightmare

 

[Jrr_]

Entangle was removed? Thank god. Hope people weren't rampaging with it like some people last map.

Cough* @ParadoxNightmare

He respeced the minute it was removed.

 

[Glacial_Reign]

Beguiler is pretty much screwed without plaguebomb. The appeal to be beguiler went to shit after it was removed and I will never play that class again. I used to love this class.

#bringbackplaguebomb

 

[OliverDollar]

Well this is a shame, I didn't think it was overpowered in its current state, even if it wasn't supposed to have entangle. Replacing entangle with nothing is going to leave Beguiler as a class that few people want to even try because it just looks lacking in abilities.

 

[what777]

entangle was compensation for plaguecoomb and fauxbomb getting removed as well as piggify being glitched in my opinion.

ChaoticVisions replaced Plaguebomb, not entangle.

 

[lordprettyflack0]

Alright, this is my opinion of beguiler

Since beguiler has now had plaguebomb and entangle removed with also a plan of increasing the cd on piggify and a warmup on masspiggify, I think it deserves plaguebomb back, its high cc is getting Nerfed VERY HARD also to mention chaoticvisions is nothing compared to plaguebomb.

keeping chaoticvisions is something that shouldnt be done, its a good skill but with only 3 damage skills it isnt enough, beguiler needs more

entangle is something that should go, as a beguiler I have no idea why its there its op as fuuck and its really helpful in getaways

my opinion -Para <3

 

[Egorh]

Beguiler is still OP, even if Chaotic Visions is a bit weaker than PlagueBomb. It still has the same cycle of kiting and using the same combo. Entangle just made this combo happen more often. It was a FILLER skill while Piggify was broken.

 

[lordprettyflack0]

Beguiler is still OP, even if Chaotic Visions is a bit weaker than PlagueBomb. It still has the same cycle of kiting and using the same combo. Entangle just made this combo happen more often. It was a FILLER skill while Piggify was broken.

Most classes counter kiting,
I can name plenty

Dragoon - Jump, Spear, DragonDash
Berserker - Lunge, toss
WIzard - Entangle
Runeblade - Blink, Icerune, Toxicrune
Disciple - Flying kick, Forcepull And the DPS on disciple is incredible

There are more classes but I dont have the time to name them

By the look of things in trade, ooc and elite chat, warriors are the most common Nowadays, especially Disciple, what a lot of people play,

Kiting with chaoticvisions is a lot harder than plaguebomb, plaguebomb was a consist of running and looking upwards, if you only have a certain amount of mana you could do that, kiting with chaoticvisions is having the fact of turning around and possibly using piggify/masspiggify which wastes more mana, not to mention chaoticvisisons does no dmg compared to plaguebomb. also remember, beguiler gets targeted in a group fight because of its squishiness, Plaguebomb requires a reagent, rotten flesh, it may not be hard to get but once it does it has to run back with only 2 damage skills.

 

[Egorh]

Most classes counter kiting,
I can name plenty

Dragoon - Jump, Spear, DragonDash
Berserker - Lunge, toss
WIzard - Entangle
Runeblade - Blink, Icerune, Toxicrune
Disciple - Flying kick, Forcepull And the DPS on disciple is incredible

There are more classes but I dont have the time to name them

By the look of things in trade, ooc and elite chat, warriors are the most common Nowadays, especially Disciple, what a lot of people play,

Kiting with chaoticvisions is a lot harder than plaguebomb, plaguebomb was a consist of running and looking upwards, if you only have a certain amount of mana you could do that, kiting with chaoticvisions is having the fact of turning around and possibly using piggify/masspiggify which wastes more mana, not to mention chaoticvisisons does no dmg compared to plaguebomb. also remember, beguiler gets targeted in a group fight because of its squishiness, Plaguebomb requires a reagent, rotten flesh, it may not be hard to get but once it does it has to run back with only 2 damage skills.

Dragoon - Jump costs 400 stamina so if they couple it with another skill they will not be able to run, allowing you to build the distance again.
- Spear is a pull back but with a warmup, so you could easily piggify in time
- DragonDash is barely a gap closer, it is wonky as hell and will overshoot you 30 blocks

Berserker - Lunge is good
- Toss is pointless to use on someone kiting unless you are throwing them into their team (when they got tossed they can just switch directions)
- Rupture is good against kiting but has a long cooldown

Wizard - Entangle is just a CC skill, in theory all CC skills are anti kite.

Runeblade - The blink range is like 5 blocks and it will only allow you about two hits
- IceRune works but as soon as you use it you are going to be piggify'd
- ToxicRune is going to be annoying but it will not affect anyone who knows how to sprint
- Flicker would be Runeblade's main anti kite due to it being difficult to target the Runeblade

Disciple - Without a hard CC to go along with these skills you do not pump out enough damage before you knock them too far away
- Beguiler has 1 warmup and Pulse is normally only used in the middle of a combo (you can't interrupt it while piggifiy'd)

The class' with the best chance to kill a beguiler are Berserker (rupture, stun, frenzy-I do not actually know if frenzy works against piggify) and Paladin (reckoning, stun) but even then the beguiler still has a very good chance.

Beguiler while it had PlagueBomb: OP as fuck - The combo did more damage
Beguiler with ChaoticVisions: Still OP - The combo does somewhat less damage but is strong as fuck

Beguiler has no counterplay because there is nothing to do against getting piggify'd and combo'd.

As a Disciple: Forcepull wack them a couple times and use a skill or two. Then you get piggify'd. The warmup pulse then fireball right as it hits, and then land ChaoticVisions. Then a Flyingkick goes out. MASS PIGGIFY! Rinse and Repeat. There is nothing to interrupt and when Beguiler is fighting a melee class other than disciple it can beguile to wait for its CDs

Kiting as a Beguiler is stupid easy. You have 1 warmup and free CC. It may have been easier with PlagueBomb but it is still super easy with ChaoticVisions.

And although you may get focused in a teamfight it is easy to get out of that sticky pickle due to not having any warmups to slow you down. Not to mention the AOE CC that most Beguilers get up to around 2.5s

If you honestly think Beguiler is too weak you are doing something wrong.

 

[lordprettyflack0]

If you honestly think Beguiler is too weak you are doing something wrong.

Beguiler isn't week in the sense of kiting it is week in the sense of damage, it may have CC's but what do they do let off around 250 dmg? a wizard can entangle, fireball, icebolt and get the same amount of damage off. not to also mention that wizards entangle has around the same cooldown as beguilers piggify. with 25 Constitution on a beguiler you have 950 health. if you you are a dragoon doing 60 per hit

950/60= 10.3

on average 10 hits by a dragoon = you being dead, + piercing strike going through armor with the trouble of not being able to kite.\

Beguiler is a class that stays back and throws it skills, if you think that it can sit there all fight whilst throwing skills without dieing, your wrong because beguilers get targeted, again with the squshiness you die in a matter of 5 seconds.

 

[malikdanab]

Beguiler isn't week in the sense of kiting it is week in the sense of damage, it may have CC's but what do they do let off around 250 dmg? a wizard can entangle, fireball, icebolt and get the same amount of damage off. not to also mention that wizards entangle has around the same cooldown as beguilers piggify. with 25 Constitution on a beguiler you have 950 health. if you you are a dragoon doing 60 per hit

950/60= 10.3

on average 10 hits by a dragoon = you being dead, + piercing strike going through armor with the trouble of not being able to kite.\

Beguiler is a class that stays back and throws it skills, if you think that it can sit there all fight whilst throwing skills without dieing, your wrong because beguilers get targeted, again with the squshiness you die in a matter of 5 seconds.

Yes! Lets discuss balance by comparing a class to a class that is know to be very op...That said:

950/60=/=10.3
950/60=15.83​

You also need to keep in mind that no sane pvper will be fighting without armor. A beguiler with 19 end has 40 weight which equals 32% damage reduction. Add that to the math:

(950*1.32)/60=20.9​

 

[Egorh]

Beguiler isn't week in the sense of kiting it is week in the sense of damage, it may have CC's but what do they do let off around 250 dmg? a wizard can entangle, fireball, icebolt and get the same amount of damage off. not to also mention that wizards entangle has around the same cooldown as beguilers piggify. with 25 Constitution on a beguiler you have 950 health. if you you are a dragoon doing 60 per hit

950/60= 10.3

on average 10 hits by a dragoon = you being dead, + piercing strike going through armor with the trouble of not being able to kite.\

Beguiler is a class that stays back and throws it skills, if you think that it can sit there all fight whilst throwing skills without dieing, your wrong because beguilers get targeted, again with the squshiness you die in a matter of 5 seconds.

You can compare it to wizard but you also need to remember:
Piggify > Entangle every day. Piggify lasts longer and disables you (it is a stun that breaks on damage), while Entangle does not silence you (meaning you can use skills: Interrupt the bolt, chakra out, etc)

It is very probable that you miss one of those skill shots due to the global cooldown.
You entangle (wait 1s) then icebolt. They break out of the root but they are still slowed (wait 1s) so you can hit your fireball.

Instead of

Piggify then warmup pulse. Right as pulse goes off you fireball (global cooldown timer does not matter because it goes away in the warmup of pulse). Then ChaoticVisions is easy to land (the player would really only be able to avoid this skill if they used a mobility skill to quickly get out of range. Eg Jump or Backflip)

Unlike Beguiler Wizard has plenty of counterplay due the long warmups and only 1 CC (hard CC that is)

 

[lordprettyflack0]

Yes! Lets discuss balance by comparing a class to a class that is know to be very op...That said:

950/60=/=10.3
950/60=15.83​

You also need to keep in mind that no sane pvper will be fighting without armor. A beguiler with 19 end has 40 weight which equals 32% damage reduction. Add that to the math:

(950*1.32)/60=20.9​

soz I did a type in the calc, xD anyway 10/20 who cares, I can click that in 2 seconds

 

[malikdanab]

soz I did a type in the calc, xD anyway 10/20 who cares, I can click that in 2 seconds

Due to immunity frames it would actually take you a bare minimum of 10 seconds to hit 20 times,but you wouldn't know that would you...

 

[JupiterRome]

@malikdanab you and your immunity timers
@TrueCorruptor you forget beguilers mana problems are like what miners thinks wizards are
That said.....
Why the fuck is this thread a thing? Entangle was just a band aid beguilers still good, quit while your ahead. Like really...... Arcane Blast (little bit better actully) with no warm up 10 sec cd and being an aoe umis what plague bomb is tbh if you think beguilers shit right now then it's probs just you

 

[Trazil]

I liked plague bomb and I mean beguiled lost all appeal toe when it lost it because I just thought it was a cool funny skill, bonespear is better than chaotic visions any day. I don't think beguiled losing entangle will really hurt the class much. I still like plague bomb more than any other skill except bones pear they are both fun sorry for any error typing on an ipod

 

[Templar_James]

I think we are all happy plague bomb was removed considering how broken the combo piggify then plague bomb and fireball 1 second before plague bomb was about to explode for almost 500 damage and then they would just use beguile to get the CDs back up