Wizards........ and bolt/megabolt

[Dazureus]

-epic snip-

Rather than wanting to nerf wizard, I'd rather complain about having a shorter cool down on my skill.. So I can kill every class better, instead of just being able to kill the 4 - 5 wizards on the server.

That's something I want to see. If something is totally unbalanced, then by all means balance it, but I would much rather see people making suggestions to strengthen all the classes instead of asking Kain to weaken the strong ones.

So: I don't think substituting root with a slow condition skill will solve everything. They still have a variety of skills that make them very powerful. For example, blink away, slow, fireball/bolt, replenish. Repeat. Win.

I think it will be a great improvement over Root, though. We can also specify HOW slow "slow" is (I think). So it can be balanced, instead of merely nerfed. While ideally I would like Forcepush instead/as well, It's like Ethan said about giving EscapeArtist to Dragoons: It would help us a lot, but it would also directly combat one of our weaknesses so it's probably a bad idea. It would let Wizards out of a bad situation after they're already in it.

My turn! I'll tell you what I told the ranger flamers, STRAFE THE FIREBALLS/BOLTS, it's quite easy to dodge a bolt, if you're sprinting and strafing it won't hit you and I don't know of any wizards good enough to hit strafing people with fireballs.

I'm getting better! Never say it can't be done!

 

[ShizzDawgg]

You realize that a ninja CARRIES a Diamond Sword... To USE a diamond sword?! Are you for real man? Come on, I wasn't saying that it would ABSORB a F&S every single time you use fireball. I'm saying in order to use the fucking skill you have to have it in your inventory. It's NOT something hard to obtain.

I sort of agree with what Greek said, but I think it should be put in better terms. Fireball is a casters MAIN WEAPON. Nobody gives a shit about hoes, they suck. Part of being caster is being resourceful and using mana to your advantage, flint and steel would defeat the purpose. Seriously, what would happen if a caster got stuck in a graveyard? Or hell even if a caster had to level? That woulld make no sense WHATSOEVER. D:

 

[GreekCrackShot]

Seriously, what would happen if a caster got stuck in a graveyard? Or hell even if a caster had to level? That woul;d make no sense WHATSOEVER. D:

What would happen if a ninja got stuck in a graveyard? It's the same thing. If you're smart you buy some redstone and recall so you can gather your shit and come back and beat that bastard who keeps spawn camping you!

Of course, say you don't have money... YOU HAVE PORT! Now take advantage of the skill and port to safety

EDIT: to add to that.. No one goes out with just fists to go level... A weapon is usually required, and while getting a weapon, is it so hard to pick up a flint and steel?

 

[ShizzDawgg]

What would happen if a ninja got stuck in a graveyard? It's the same thing. If you're smart you buy some redstone and recall so you can gather your shit and come back and beat that bastard who keeps spawn camping you!

Of course, say you don't have money... YOU HAVE PORT! Now take advantage of the skill and port to safety

Never implied that it was a wizard xD

 

[GreekCrackShot]

Never implied that it was a wizard xD

Let me rephrase: After just dying and going to the graveyard, you SHOULDN'T be able to just power your way through a group of heavily armed spawn campers. That goes for ANY class in my opinion. But I do understand that Wizard is a mana/skill based class, I just think that a reagant that EASY to obtain shouldn't hinder the wizard...

 

[Digger360]

My turn! I'll tell you what I told the ranger flamers, STRAFE THE FIREBALLS/BOLTS, it's quite easy to dodge a bolt, if you're sprinting and strafing it won't hit you and I don't know of any wizards good enough to hit strafing people with fireballs.

Yeah. Lets see you *Strafe* A instant, target based spell. Bolt LITTERLY has a 100% chance to hit.

 

[HollowSith]

Yeah. Lets see you *Strafe* A instant, target based spell. Bolt LITTERLY has a 100% chance to hit.

If you stay within range it has a 99%. The other percent is if you try to bolt someone with one or quicken. Sometimes it doesn't hit. Yes, we've tested it.

 

[Graink]

Yeah. Lets see you *Strafe* A instant, target based spell. Bolt LITTERLY has a 100% chance to hit.

Okay, then I have a 100% chance to hit you with my diamond axe. That means exactly 14 hits would finish a wizard.. I can click 14 clicks within 2 second like nothing, therefore I can kill him? NO! What I'm saying is you have to F*cking hit the target with bolt! you still have to aim at him, if you don't understand this, I take it as you haven't tested the class, and you're just basing your ideas on random shit.

 

[Kalkyte]

^ So really what you're trying to say is, if you can't kill someone, they're OP. Good for him if he can blink away, slow, fireball/bolt, replenish and repeat. Any class has a combo like this. I can disarm, harmtouch, decay and curse.. What this does is harmtouch dmg to finish, decay to take you down throughout the fight, curse so you miss 50% of the time and disarm so you have no weapon. If I can hit you with my diamond axe at the same time, I can kill someone with 85 hp in like, 5 - 6 seconds if I play it right.. Sometimes I kill people sooner if they run and I can harmtouch them for a last hit. I don't even have decay yet and I can still do crazy damage. Once I get both that and drainsoul my guess is everyone on the server is going to bitch and whine about getting it nerfed. We might as well nerf all classes down to 0 so we can have only bards and warriors cause those are the only fair classes right?

Read my posts. I don't give a rats ass if someone can kill me. I don't give a shit if they kill me 100 times in a minute because they are OP. However, I know that others do. In the interest of balance and everyone's enjoyment I'm trying to suggest fixes.

Also, only certain classes have skill chains like that. Dragoon, paladin, samurai, thief, ninja, ranger and all healers do not have damage chains like that. They rely on utility skills and their melee damage primarily (except healers, who...heal). Classes that do have these chains are often OP. However, I'm fine with DK as it is. You can take out one person in 6 seconds but then you're screwed. You lose ability to harmtouch for a long time, and have no mana.Wizards can just keep going due to short cool downs, replenish and consume. So they can kill 3 people in 18 seconds while you'd kill one, maybe two because you are a tank, and then die. Wizards are squishy; shouldn't be able to handle multiple enemies, shouldn't be able to kill a person without taking hits and shouldn't have an infinite pool of mana. Mana conservation should be the primary goal of any caster :/

Just because a spec can kill quickly doesn't mean it is OP. If it can kill quickly without being hit then it is certainly OP. And yes, people probably will complain. Does that mean their complaints are invalid? No.

Listen to what I say this time. Know that you can nerf bard to shit and I don't care. I do it for fun, not to own in PvP. If owning is your fun then I'm sorry. You can't just own everyone and have an uber spec. It ruins the fun for others.

Continue this privately if you'd like - I'm done arguing with you in public. Thanks.

 

[Graink]

Ninja = assassinsblade + blackjack. ( This can usually lead to a certain death, they can't move and are poisoned ) Worst case, you just smoke away.
Dragoon = Charge + Impale + disarm ( Teleport to them, tank them, hammer them with impale while they can only hit you for punches; Good against wizards :O Who would have thought! Get up close and personal from a 15 block teleport.)
Samurai = Mortalwound + Bleed + disarm, or mortalwound + bladegrasp (1. destroy him nearly 1 hit. You can also deal 10dmg with a dia sword; 2. you take no dmg, tank anything comming at you, and hit 10.)
Theif = Blackjack + Backstab + assassins blade ? + confuse (This is where you had me laughing theif is super strong, not OP, but really good. They can deal great dmg as long as they don't get him; "confuse" them and you're good to go.)
Rangers = Arrowstorm + firearrow + icearrow if you want to catch up/run ( Arrowstorm would be used to finish it, take them down with firearrow and every other arrow you have does great dmg anyways. )

Healers : Not much to say about damage chains for these guys, but they have super great heal chains.

I posted this not to continue an arguement, but to inform you, and everyone else that every class has it's time. They're all great, and can all be used to kill anyone. Any class can pretty much kill another class in a short manner of time if they know what to do, and if they're mastered! HollowSith was only able to deal all of that damage because he is a master wizard. He has every single skill a wizard should have, all of these skills were perfectly fine in the last map, because everyone else was specced! Just wait until everyone has mastered their class, hollow will most likely still kill them because of his personal skill, but by then they will need a buff back to what they actually need to be.

 

[GreekCrackShot]

Okay, then I have a 100% chance to hit you with my diamond axe. That means exactly 14 hits would finish a wizard.. I can click 14 clicks within 2 second like nothing, therefore I can kill him? NO! What I'm saying is you have to F*cking hit the target with bolt! you still have to aim at him, if you don't understand this, I take it as you haven't tested the class, and you're just basing your ideas on random shit.

Unless you use aim hacks (not accusing you of using any hacks), it's not a 100% chance to hit someone. I'd say if you are average at PvP, and you are in range of hitting the other person, it's about a 50-60% or maybe 70% chance to hit your opponent if you are good. And that DOES NOT factor in the TERRIBLE PvP lag of Minecraft, which depending on the player minimizes the chance to hit someone, most likely by another 20-30%.

Fighting guys like sheddi, it's nearly impossible to get a hit off and before you know it he's already hit you 10 times because you're frozen in place on his screen due to this lag. Of course, that's worst case scenario.

 

[Graink]

^ I was being sarcastic up there But thank you greek for proving my exact point! You understand that not every hit will hit them, and considering smashing your key binds is the exact same speed (maybe slower) than clicking, you would have mashed them 5 - 10 times before you've even hit the guy. That means 1/10 hits, so 10%! Told you I was good at math, 1/5 = 20% if you wanted to know, 1/6 = approx 16%. 1/7 = like 14%, and 1/8 = 12.5% ! Do you understand how those wizard attacks are not 100% yet? Or do we need a lower grade math class?

 

[GraRona]

If you play your cards right, you'll be able to own that wizard easy. I'm a rogue and I KNOW that we are meant to utilize our skills to sneak up on the enemy and get those extra hits in that will seal the deal. When I was a level 30 rogue, I was able to kill a few specced players by simply sneaking up behind them and getting the extra ~2 hits of iron sword plus bite (36 dmg+ DoT+If the opponent is slow, I can get possibly more sword hits and even another bite off). Point is, if you can so much as sneak up on the Wizard (squishy as fuck bro. you can punch it and it dies) you can probably beat it.

@Alltherogues complaining: Sneak up and plunge your sword in their back. You can possible rip em down to 60%+ hp before they recover.
@Allthewarriors complaining: Casters ARE supposed to beat warriors. It's how the class triangle works: Casters>Warrior>Rogue>Caster

But again, the Heroes system is designed so that if you are good enough you can probably dominate (not the case with healers as they are a support class) by dodging fireballs (not hard) and if you are wearing something like fire protection armor.

The way I see it, Wizards are slightly OP but that can be fixed by simply removing root. Wizards don't need root because it's just ensuring that they can carry out an OP combo of fireball+megabolt+replenish+bolt+root+fireball.
If root was removed, it would result in megabolt+bolt+tryingtogetfireballsalongthewaybutit'shardtodothatsomaybeonehitsforthesakeofargument
this would probs kill the everyday warrior(balanced, matches the class triangle) but it wouldn't be fully executed if it was a rogue sneaking up or if it was a rogue sniping out of range of bolt (ranger).

 

[Graink]

^ I feel sad that I didn't even think of the class triangle. This is a classic example of why you warriors may be losing, even rogues may lose occasionally to casters. I know that bringing in other games is probably useless, but back in my runescape days, mages were always the badasses if player perfectly. You coul have pure str, pure ranged, pure attacks, but in all my days, my pure mage accounts never failed in 1v1s. They're a class built around doing high damage from a far distance. Rogues were built for speed and sneakyness. Warriors are tanks against melee, but even in runescape armor made magic hit higher. If you want to complain about how wizards don't need any reagents, fight them only with a sword! You armor clearly gives no protection, so why waste it everytime you die? Fight them with a little bit more intelligence and you could either win, or have a lot less losses.

 

[KrunknMunky]

I do not want to get into any argument here, and while I feel that some good points have been raised, a lot of it has descended into flaming.

I would like to add that I am one of the worst PVP'ers ever, and I accept that

I think it is relatively unanimous with everyone (except kain ) that root needs to be removed. It just has to go. I am fine with a slow, but as Daz stated, Forcepush would be a little like EscapeArtist on a Dragoon.

And secondly, I think it is a good idea that all caster classes should require some sort of reagent for their skills. Perhaps a flint and steel for Casters, or maybe some gunpowder? And then something specialised to each of the specs (bones for necros, spider eye (or enderpearl if not too expensive) for beguiler?, flint and steel for geo, and idk what for wizard) This is simply so that a caster/spec cannot simply jump straight into battle again from a graveyard (once their mana has recharged), as it means that casters/specs have nothing to lose. They are nearly as powerful in battle without any inventory as they are with. Please understand this