Suggestion Water walk

[awsumguy75321]

Limiting your idea so that it may one day be possible:

Needs a high, 1 use per 2-3 fights cd. Needs to become unusable/break on combat. Should have a modest stamina/resource cost to make sure that if it is used to further escape a combat sitation, the player does not use it without consideration.

However, I think that balancing too much pvp around terrain fighting leaves some of the slower melee classes out of luck. Have you ever tried to melee a dragoon who didn't want you to in world pvp? Same thing here with WaterWalkEscape, Backflip, and eventally, once distance and resources are up, Smoke. I do not see ninja's having any trouble closing gaps when played competently with the current skills.
Another tiny objection is that I want to see increased use of vehicles (boats n carts) for HC rather than all this warping/easy sprint mode skills people want, but that is a personal note.

This all being said, if implemented my spec would love anyone else to have this, one arrow while you're in Jesus waterwalk mode and you either fall into the water (gg ranger) or can be ice'd until you do.

If it helps any, I use boats quite frequently.

 

[Flippintuna1]

Limiting your idea so that it may one day be possible:

Needs a high, 1 use per 2-3 fights cd. Needs to become unusable/break on combat. Should have a modest stamina/resource cost to make sure that if it is used to further escape a combat sitation, the player does not use it without consideration.

However, I think that balancing too much pvp around terrain fighting leaves some of the slower melee classes out of luck. Have you ever tried to melee a dragoon who didn't want you to in world pvp? Same thing here with WaterWalkEscape, Backflip, and eventally, once distance and resources are up, Smoke. I do not see ninja's having any trouble closing gaps when played competently with the current skills.
Another tiny objection is that I want to see increased use of vehicles (boats n carts) for HC rather than all this warping/easy sprint mode skills people want, but that is a personal note.

This all being said, if implemented my spec would love anyone else to have this, one arrow while you're in Jesus waterwalk mode and you either fall into the water (gg ranger) or can be ice'd until you do.

Why does it need a ridiculously high cd? Personally I hate skills like that, what use is a skill you can't use? If you limited how long the effect lasted then it wouldn't be more than a jump or blink distance closing. It would be hard to use twice in one fight unless your going in and out of the water because it would become difficult for you to get out of the water to use it so your not stuck in the water but rather on top of it. Stamina cost should be moderately low because whats the point in blowing all your energy to catch someone then not being able to do anything? slow mele classes are typically tanky and should know to avoid fights that include water without some kind of mobility skill like jump. Smoke is a defensive skill and can barely be used for more than one hit before the playing ground is even again.
Sorry for disagreeing but I really don't agree with how you view it.
-Flip

 

[Dsawemd]

1. Why does it need a ridiculously high cd? Personally I hate skills like that, what use is a skill you can't use?

2. If you limited how long the effect lasted then it wouldn't be more than a jump or blink distance closing.

3. It would be hard to use twice in one fight unless your going in and out of the water because it would become difficult for you to get out of the water to use it so your not stuck in the water but rather on top of it.

4. Stamina cost should be moderately low because whats the point in blowing all your energy to catch someone then not being able to do anything?

5. slow mele classes are typically tanky and should know to avoid fights that include water without some kind of mobility skill like jump.

6. Smoke is a defensive skill and can barely be used for more than one hit before the playing ground is even again.

7. Sorry for disagreeing but I really don't agree with how you view it.
-Flip

disclaimer: I added the # bullet points.

1. It needs a high cooldown because it would be a unique escape skill that negates the largest single terrain factor besides elevation, which is water. Only soulsand/cobweb is worse to be stuck in than water. I think there was some miscommunication though, because I meant ~a 3 min cooldown not a "ridiculously high" one.

2. First of all, OF COURSE it will have limited duration. Maybe Legendary Healer can get perma-waterwalk, but until then, not likely. Second of all, so what you are saying here is that my edit of the skill would be comparable to other mobility skills, yet you list that as a negative. Are you trying to suggest a skill that is more useful than Blink or Jump? Because I do not see any class that is not Wizard or Dragoon out-performing them mobility wise, and having a toggle-able waterwalk (that toggles off when you leave the water) would be much better than either.

3. I see where you are going with this. If the ninja does not leave the water, he gets to run around like its dirt, but if he leaves, he cannot waterwalk again for a bit. I will disagree with this aspect of the skill (being toggle-able based on position, regardless of combat or damage taken) for other reasons if necessary, but it is abundantly clear that the lore fails in this instance. What, the ninja ran across the water super fast and then... stopped? Decided to walk around on the water more? I think a simple solution to this would be that the waterwalk ends either in combat, or, if that is too much, it should end when they stop sprinting, which would mean most combat tag actions would immediately/soon remove it.

4. Agreed, Stamina should not be the focused limiting aspect of using this skill, since it is a mobility skill.

5. Again, I see what you are trying to do, but actually, a ninja should know even MORE so to avoid water fights than a tanky melee . In fact, I do not think there is a single spec that performs well when THEY are in the water. Obviously anything with ranged non-fire DoTs (rangers, necros) will do well shooting at a target in water, but no one wins by going into water. The ability to partially ignore a mechanic that Everyone Else has to deal with could be more powerful than we expect.

6. Incorrect, Smoke is a skill, not defensive nor offensive (lol if anything it can be both at once, if you successfully hide and get another chance to attack). Talk to a strong ninja and get some tips on how to use it strategically. Depending on which direction you come out of smoke, how you hit them, etc, the "only good for 1 hit" can be modified to more like 1-3 hits, or 1 and a skill warm-up.

7. Please, no need to apologize. We are just talking things out here.

TL; DR - Dsa thinks that water is a mechanic that every class performs poorly in, and that giving a single class a way to circumvent that mechanic requires special attention when considering. If ever implemented, Waterwalk should break on combat or have some other way to preserve lore and balance without a huge cooldown/stamina cost. Flip thinks it should not break on combat, and should toggle off when the player moves from water to land.


Ps. -1 for implementation methods that spawn non-despawning blocks (ie trail of lilypads), it will clutter the server (in this case the water ways).

 

[Flippintuna1]

disclaimer: I added the # bullet points.

1. It needs a high cooldown because it would be a unique escape skill that negates the largest single terrain factor besides elevation, which is water. Only soulsand/cobweb is worse to be stuck in than water. I think there was some miscommunication though, because I meant ~a 3 min cooldown not a "ridiculously high" one.

2. First of all, OF COURSE it will have limited duration. Maybe Legendary Healer can get perma-waterwalk, but until then, not likely. Second of all, so what you are saying here is that my edit of the skill would be comparable to other mobility skills, yet you list that as a negative. Are you trying to suggest a skill that is more useful than Blink or Jump? Because I do not see any class that is not Wizard or Dragoon out-performing them mobility wise, and having a toggle-able waterwalk (that toggles off when you leave the water) would be much better than either.

3. I see where you are going with this. If the ninja does not leave the water, he gets to run around like its dirt, but if he leaves, he cannot waterwalk again for a bit. I will disagree with this aspect of the skill (being toggle-able based on position, regardless of combat or damage taken) for other reasons if necessary, but it is abundantly clear that the lore fails in this instance. What, the ninja ran across the water super fast and then... stopped? Decided to walk around on the water more? I think a simple solution to this would be that the waterwalk ends either in combat, or, if that is too much, it should end when they stop sprinting, which would mean most combat tag actions would immediately/soon remove it.

4. Agreed, Stamina should not be the focused limiting aspect of using this skill, since it is a mobility skill.

5. Again, I see what you are trying to do, but actually, a ninja should know even MORE so to avoid water fights than a tanky melee . In fact, I do not think there is a single spec that performs well when THEY are in the water. Obviously anything with ranged non-fire DoTs (rangers, necros) will do well shooting at a target in water, but no one wins by going into water. The ability to partially ignore a mechanic that Everyone Else has to deal with could be more powerful than we expect.

6. Incorrect, Smoke is a skill, not defensive nor offensive (lol if anything it can be both at once, if you successfully hide and get another chance to attack). Talk to a strong ninja and get some tips on how to use it strategically. Depending on which direction you come out of smoke, how you hit them, etc, the "only good for 1 hit" can be modified to more like 1-3 hits, or 1 and a skill warm-up.

7. Please, no need to apologize. We are just talking things out here.

TL; DR - Dsa thinks that water is a mechanic that every class performs poorly in, and that giving a single class a way to circumvent that mechanic requires special attention when considering. If ever implemented, Waterwalk should break on combat or have some other way to preserve lore and balance without a huge cooldown/stamina cost. Flip thinks it should not break on combat, and should toggle off when the player moves from water to land.


Ps. -1 for implementation methods that spawn non-despawning blocks (ie trail of lilypads), it will clutter the server (in this case the water ways).

for 3 I didnt mean for it to be toggleable, I meant that after the skill wears off they would be in the water and not be able to use it again without getting stuck in the block/water. for 5 maybe 1/2 the classes have a advantage in the water, (any casters, dragoons, rangers, maybe some healers, pallys) and for the lilly pads thing I was meaning for them to de-spawn after like 3-5 seconds or so.

 

[Dsawemd]

No class performs better in the water than on dry land. There are some classes that perform better than others if both parties are in the water.

Since there is not a single class that performs better in water than on dry land, I have not really considered in-the-water pvp to be a goal of ours here in HC. If this is changing, we should get confirmation from higher ups.

I (my spec) would love it if In-the-water pvp became more common! But I am not sure it is meant to be.

 

[Flippintuna1]

Ranger is better in water fights because of the use of gills you can just swim underwater and spam them with a knock back 2 bow so they cant reach you. (I had assumed that you meant that both parties would be in the water with my last statement)

 

[arcanegrove]

Good idea, make a lava walking for pyro's

 

[Flippintuna1]

Don't they already have a fire invuln or something?