Villager Slaughter

[Xargun]

Can someone tell me know villagers were slaughtered ? I understand doing a farm animal butcher as they are relatively easy to get back but villagers are a real pain to get.

 

[ShadowRavynn]

agreed and I have never heard of villagers being slaughtered before... if they are going to be slaughtered with the farm animals, then merchants should have a skill to summon them just as farmers can summon animals.

villagers being slaughtered is totally ridiculous....

 

[LightningCape]

Can someone tell me know villagers were slaughtered ? I understand doing a farm animal butcher as they are relatively easy to get back but villagers are a real pain to get.

The animal butchers are/were done for lag purposes and butchered with a cmd that affects all passive mobs (I think). Villagers are included in this and are removed as well and I'm not sure excluding them from it is possible (not 100% sure).

Summoning them for farmer or merchant (with maybe expensive regents and/or long CD) would seem reasonable imo.

 

[Xargun]

The animal butchers are/were done for lag purposes and butchered with a cmd that affects all passive mobs (I think). Villagers are included in this and are removed as well and I'm not sure excluding them from it is possible (not 100% sure).

Summoning them for farmer or merchant (with maybe expensive regents and/or long CD) would seem reasonable imo.

Butchers in the past never affected Villagers - just wondering why its different this map.

 

[Kainzo]

This was a mistake, I ran the command /butcher -af - which in turn killed everything.
In either case, there was a massive amount of lag by entities that were NOT monsters.

Villagers are volatile. I think it would make since to have merchants or some other profession summon them on a high cooldown or reagent cost.

 

[SwannkyTaco]

This was a mistake, I ran the command /butcher -af - which in turn killed everything.
In either case, there was a massive amount of lag by entities that were NOT monsters.

Villagers are volatile. I think it would make since to have merchants or some other profession summon them on a high cooldown or reagent cost.

Farmer should be able to summon them - or 'request their presence'. I saw a thread about it.
http://herocraftonline.com/main/threads/testificate-summon-skill.44782/#post-362354

 

[Xargun]

This was a mistake, I ran the command /butcher -af - which in turn killed everything.
In either case, there was a massive amount of lag by entities that were NOT monsters.

Villagers are volatile. I think it would make since to have merchants or some other profession summon them on a high cooldown or reagent cost.

Thanks for the update. Would be nice if Merchants or Farmers could summon them. Perhaps replace Summon Bat with Summon Villager or give Merchants a level 60 skill of summon Villager. Maybe something like an 8 hour cooldown and a gold ingot ? or gold / emerald block as a regeant ?
That cooldown and cost would keep it under control and tbh you really only need 2 villagers to get the ball rolling just like farm animals.

 

[Jonsoon]

I do not think anyone should be able to summon villagers. They are easy enough to obtain as is, and it should be a challenge to gather them.

As for the butchers, there are towns with dozens, and some with even hundreds of villagers. They cause lag, plain and simple. It is rare that animal butchers happen, and I honestly believe that villagers should to part of it.
For starters, this creates a larger market for gold, for alchemists, and the various items required to refresh trades. Second, this helps prevent merchants from camping specific trades, and prevents monopolies.

 

[Yavool]

I do not think anyone should be able to summon villagers. They are easy enough to obtain as is, and it should be a challenge to gather them.

As for the butchers, there are towns with dozens, and some with even hundreds of villagers. They cause lag, plain and simple. It is rare that animal butchers happen, and I honestly believe that villagers should to part of it.
For starters, this creates a larger market for gold, for alchemists, and the various items required to refresh trades. Second, this helps prevent merchants from camping specific trades, and prevents monopolies.

I'm mixed about this suggestion. I believe that allowing villagers to be butchered would only favor the bigger and more established towns (as they would be able to recover faster from an across-the-board villager wipe), and thus leading to a disparity between those with higher resources v. those with limited resources. I guess if a merchant is part of the "1%" as far as the town they are part in, then this would be a good idea; for the other 99%, maybe not as good of an idea.

If a town and/or region is experiencing lag as a result of their "hundreds of villagers," then I suggest that the head of such a town put a cap on the number of villagers that their town has (in the interest of a lag-free experience for their members). There is no true need for more than one "perfect" librarian, farmer, butcher, and blacksmith; and if someone has 96 priests, well, if those priests aren't giving the results the merchant wants, then kill em off and get some new ones in.

Regarding the concern of camping specific trades, MC already has a randomized chance of any trade being upgraded, or in the event of a priest's enchantment trades, changed to a different enchantment trade. If a merchant makes the trade enough times, it will shift on its own behest as an element of randomness luck (or misfortune). It may take some time for some trades to shift, but in essence, there is no guarantee of a "camped specific trade."

As far as providing a market for gold, alchemists, and other items, I am unaware of a trade that needs an alchemist's expertise; gold is without value and will remain without value until armor durability increases for it (merchants won't have much need for it when there are other stronger trades to get emeralds with); and the items necessary to facilitate the other trades aren't hard to acquire (except perhaps for a deep-into-the-villager-trades cooked fish trade).

So I guess my argument is more of a federalist argument: leave the lag issue to the individual towns (i.e. the states) to deal with regarding their villager population rather than requiring the admins (i.e. the feds) to do a periodic butcher of the villagers. I'm no expert on lag, but I will venture a guess that there are other mem leaks that account for server lag superior to the few hundred villagers that are presently in Haven worldwide.

-yav

 

[Dakinara]

I do not think anyone should be able to summon villagers. They are easy enough to obtain as is, and it should be a challenge to gather them.

As for the butchers, there are towns with dozens, and some with even hundreds of villagers. They cause lag, plain and simple. It is rare that animal butchers happen, and I honestly believe that villagers should to part of it.
For starters, this creates a larger market for gold, for alchemists, and the various items required to refresh trades. Second, this helps prevent merchants from camping specific trades, and prevents monopolies.

Apparently TNT mod / town raiding is coming. I think villager summoning is a natural step required to partially offset frequent villager wipe outs that will happen as a result.

 

[Dakinara]

If a town and/or region is experiencing lag as a result of their "hundreds of villagers," then I suggest that the head of such a town put a cap on the number of villagers that their town has (in the interest of a lag-free experience for their members). There is no true need for more than one "perfect" librarian, farmer, butcher, and blacksmith; and if someone has 96 priests, well, if those priests aren't giving the results the merchant wants, then kill em off and get some new ones in.
-yav

Im not going to pretend to know how much lag (latency specific, not framerate) villagers cause, but if they are causing latency issues, i imagine the effect would be server wide, not area specific. They should be included in periodic butchers if they are a significant source of latency, with summoning skill added to offset.

Heck, summoning reagent could be one / multiple golden apples and / or potions of weakness, which are the existing reagents used to get them now.

 

[Xargun]

If a lvl 60 merchant can summon one everyone couple hours (with or without an expensive regeant) then butcher all you want. In fact it would be nice if Butchers were schedule so us Farmers know -- hey there is a butcher every 3 days at midnight server time.. Which means every 3 days before I log off to go to bed that night I slaughter my livestock and start building them back up tomorrow. If i cant be on that time I can at least slaughter early or plan for another townie to slaughter them for me. With enough notice we can adapt to almost anything in HC.

 

[Yavool]

If a lvl 60 merchant can summon one everyone couple hours (with or without an expensive regeant) then butcher all you want. In fact it would be nice if Butchers were schedule so us Farmers know -- hey there is a butcher every 3 days at midnight server time.. Which means every 3 days before I log off to go to bed that night I slaughter my livestock and start building them back up tomorrow. If i cant be on that time I can at least slaughter early or plan for another townie to slaughter them for me. With enough notice we can adapt to almost anything in HC.

It takes a significant amount of time, effort, and luck to get villagers that server their quality purpose of providing unique and special items through their trades. To promote butchering of villagers is to promote a constant square-one redundant process for merchants to have to work through in order to achieve their goal of good trades. I would much prefer focusing my time, energy, and effort toward providing the public with the finished goods in a market setting rather than a frequent and continuous upkeep of developing new villagers, especially knowing that they will be wiped in short order.

If a butcher of villagers is considered and implemented, then I suggest that it happen extremely infrequently - every three to four months. In doing so, it strikes a balance between the function and value of villagers that merchants put upon them, and the (presently unverified) amount of lag that they add to HC. As I said before, there are multiple forms of server lag, and without the hard quantifiable data, we are all speculating with regard to how much villagers contribute to the lag issue at large, if at all, and where they stand in the rank-order of "creates most lag" to "creates least lag."

 

[Dakinara]

Yes it is completely up to server admins to determine what does cause significant latency, however anything that is a significant cause of latency is a major issue to me as I am one of those people who value reasonable latency (sub 200ish ms) over nearly anything else. Not specifically asking for villager butchers, but if they are needed to address latency, or once the town raiding is implemented, i could see villager summoning being a way to help offset the resulting loss issue.

 

[Yavool]

Yes it is completely up to server admins to determine what does cause significant latency, however anything that is a significant cause of latency is a major issue to me as I am one of those people who value reasonable latency (sub 200ish ms) over nearly anything else. Not specifically asking for villager butchers, but if they are needed to address latency, or once the town raiding is implemented, i could see villager summoning being a way to help offset the resulting loss issue.

Just to be clear on my stance: I believe there is absolutely no need for villager summoning.

It is not difficult to transform villagers. It takes a little effort, a little ingenuity, a splash potion of weakness (nod to the alchemist), and a golden apple. All you need is 2, and then you can breed them with the right setup. Creating "summon villagers" is unnecessary, as the method already inherent to MC is sufficient. If it is too difficult for a person, then that person can hire someone to do it for them, or get a more capable townsfolk to make it happen. The real difficulty comes in rebuilding the trades from the ground up.

I want to just make sure that the issue of whether villager wipes should occur and the want for villager summoning spells aren't blended into the same issue, as they are distinct. If a schedule villager wipe does occur, then it is the effort of the merchant to get more. Even though a spawn villager spell could potentially balance the disparity that is created with wipes by giving those with more resources an edge up, it has a much too high risk of abuse, and a much greater concern of promoting <insert admin's quantifiable knowledge> server lag by giving anyone who can summon them the ability to do so willy-nilly and basically overpopulate a region at a faster rate than already is implicated by this thread (i.e. the "hundreds of villagers") by a number of HC members much greater than who put their effort towards doing so now.

In short, summoning villagers would promote complications to an already effective method of villager creation (transforming zombies) that is already inherent to Minecraft. HC time and focus deserves to be put toward things that are already deficient and/or behind on their creation and production schedule.

Just my 2 soul's worth.

-yav

 

[Im_a_Pickle]

If there was a lot of lag due to passive mobs, can't we just reduce or completely stop ocelots from spawning? They seem kinda useless in my opinion...

 

[Dakinara]

I hate getting into the realm of "future server updates", but if tnt / town raiding is coming to the server, i cant see why anyone would think villager summoning is not a reasonable request. It can be on a long cooldown, use the same reagents (gold apple and weakness), but villagers and farm animals are gonna die a lot, and at least farm animals can be repopulated somewhat reasonably with summoning, where currently villagers require a much more annoying process of building long ass stairways n such to get them where you want them lol. Plus you have to patrol for villager zombies, which can at times take multiple day night cycles due to randomness.

 

[ShadowRavynn]

@Kainzo any more thoughts on this? I am holding off on making more villagers until we get some kind of a definitive answer...

Thankies!