Suggestion Tutorial area change

[gontron]

Hello. This is my first suggestion thread, so forgive me if it does not quite meet the standard.
First of all, I must say I really like this server. I love the Heroes plugin(and all of it's skills and classes), I don't quite like the Greylist but I think it does play a role in forming a tighter community, and I love the sweet builds all around the server. But as much as I may like these things, other people might not know exactly how much fun it is and might miss out on it because of things like the Tutorial Area.
The tutorial area forms a huge burden when you start out on the server. It's forced upon you, and it's a 15 minute walk around reading signs which you might have already read before, or which's contents might be explained better by a friend than by a sign. I've tried to invite friends to play on the server, and most just give up in the tutorial area simply because either they get overwhelmed by all the signs or it's just too long of a walk which I can't tour them through. After they've left, they usually end up telling me that the server was boring. I think that if the tutorial area was optional, it'd directly reflect on the amount of people the server averages, and make for a much better first look.

Best regards,
Gontron

 

[Dsawemd]

Please get your friends to log into the Hub one more time, and take them to the test server. Upon entering, you can immediately show them Max level pvp, and you can show them how they can choose to try one of our awesome classes without worrying about reading signs. If you tag me in a reply (@Dsawemd) I can even try to be on Test to help you guys with some of the Menus.

The tutorial is important because people need to obey the rules. The staff on this server does a good job of making sure only fair players use the server, and they do not forgive easily, so the tutorial actually helps the playerbase by removing those players who want a quick and lawless server. Playing Herocraft is closer to playing WoW or RuneScape or another RPG than playing a pvp Kit server.

Edit: You won, so I rated you the Winner lol.

 

[gontron]

I understand that you need people to follow the rules, but most of the tutorial area is purely just showing you the different classes. Don't you think it'd be -better- if the tutorial area was cut between the Rules and the rest of it?
Not to mention that neither in Runescape or World of Warcraft is a ruleset and a guide through the classes ever forced upon you at the beginning of the game.
Also, most players that don't want to read the rules won't read them even if you shove them in their face. I still maintain that, maybe while the rules should be displayed to you at the start, all the rest of the tutorial should not.
As for of my 15 minute walk statement, I did infact just log in with an alternate account and speedran my way through the tutorial, and it still took a good 5 minutes. I can't imagine how much longer it'd be if I had read the signs.

 

[Trazil]

it doesn't take 15 mins and it makes for less work for the guides and staff explaining things to people

 

[gontron]

If someone wants to ignore the rules, Trazil, they will do even if you shove the rules up their face. And as a matter of a fact, if you do read the signs like you are supposed to I could estimate it does take around 15 minutes, as just speedrunning through the entire thing took me 5 minutes. Now, I think that if someone needs help with learning the classes, THEY should be the ones deciding wether they want to sit though the entire thing reading the signs.

 

[Dsawemd]

1. I understand that you need people to follow the rules, but most of the tutorial area is purely just showing you the different classes. Don't you think it'd be -better- if the tutorial area was cut between the Rules and the rest of it?
2. Not to mention that neither in Runescape or World of Warcraft is a ruleset and a guide through the classes ever forced upon you at the beginning of the game.
3.As for of my 15 minute walk statement, I did infact just log in with an alternate account and speedran my way through the tutorial, and it still took a good 5 minutes. I can't imagine how much longer it'd be if I had read the signs.

1. Classes make Herocraft, and the portion of the "tutorial" that has class info is not really a "tutorial" but an introduction to the unique aspects of the server. I agree that it could be changed to have a sign that says "Class info this way OR hc.to/wiki for class info" with an option to skip the Combat Class Area and Profession Village.
2. Tutorials are a huge part of those games, anyone who played them has forgotten about the tutorials because they spent hours and hours playing the game. But think back, and you will realize that those games required either a lot of tutorials or a friend teaching you. Since we cannot rely on live help from friends or staff 100% of the time, we NEED the tutorial to help the new players.
3. 15 minutes is fine for a one-time experience. Herocraft is a great server that takes time to level and build in.

 

[gontron]

"I agree that it could be changed to have a sign that says "Class info this way OR hc.to/wiki for class info" with an option to skip the Combat Class Area and Profession Village." Thank you.

 

[Dsawemd]

"I agree that it could be changed to have a sign that says "Class info this way OR hc.to/wiki for class info" with an option to skip the Combat Class Area and Profession Village." Thank you.

BUT here is why it will NOT be changed:

It takes 30 seconds to run around along the path for each of these areas, they do not add more than 5 minutes even if you get lost in them for the player who wants to run past.

Tutorial changes are low priority compared to many other projects, especially since UpperStaff (Kainzo) has historically taken the stance of "Learn the Server once in Detail, it won't Kill You (But I Will If You Keep Complaining!)".

 

[mikehk]

parts of the tutorial need updating, but I do think that newbs should read it. even if it takes awile. one thing I would change, is the portal at the end. currently (from what I remember, was awile ago) it takes you to haven/shrine spawn, which should be changed to ruins spawn. it is a bit of a hassle guiding people through chat that there's a portal on the floor next to where you spawn (no idea how, but most newbs can't find it until after 5 mins+ of searching), and that they need to go through it and then the portal in front of them to get to the greylisted world (also for some newbs, takes them a bit to find it....).

 

[Xhazed]

It is true when i joined herocraft i just ran through the tutorial map and even like that i got lost and it took me like 10 mins. So yea i think it would be good. Is not like they would break rules, because if u are whilisted you probably have good intentions and know some rules and if you are not you cant really do anything since you are greylisted.

 

[gontron]

I believe tutorial changes would take barely any effort to complete, you'd just have to make a room with 2 portals = one to skip the tutorial and one to go through the tutorial.
It took me 5 minutes to go through the tutorial even when I already knew the path I had to follow. It'd take new players more than that, considering how confusing the paths are.

 

[mikehk]

no, the tut should not be skipped, just change the portal at the end. like dsaw said, it filters out the players who are lawless and expect a quick 10 minutes of kitpvp. if they are good people, they'd read most of the tut and be cool with it.

 

[gontron]

What about reading a tutorial makes them good people? Maybe they don't want to read the whole thing, maybe they wanna discover it with time. Or maybe they have a friend who'll probably explain the game to them better than some signs might. Or maybe they just straight out don't want a tutorial, and they don't have to want a "quick 10 mins of kitpvp" to do so. Maybe they've got their own reasons. In all these cases, people should be able to choose if they want to sit through the tutorial or not.
For instance, in most games I play I utterly refuse to sit through any kind of tutorial or guide. I still play them, and I still enjoy them, and I still follow the rules if any. Actually, I usually avoid games which force a tutorial on you.

 

[Dsawemd]

In all these cases, people should be able to choose if they want to sit through the tutorial or not.
.

I disagree with this STRONGLY. People have to read the tutorial.

Obviously your friends are not willing to put in time on the server if they refuse to play because of the Tutorial. You, on the other hand, have spent quite a bit of time in this thread trying to change the tutorial to make up for your lazy friends. Turn your energy towards something more positive (like convincing them not to be so lazy) and you will see results.

 

[huntmoak]

I'd have been soooo lost if the tutorial isn't as elaborate as it is. There is so much to Herocraft. I don't think it could be shortened without making the tutorial some stupid wall of dookie that most other servers have. Herocraft's tutorial is beautiful (imo) and doesn't need to be changed. If they cant finish the tutorial, then why would they spend any amount of time on a quality server such as this one?

 

[gontron]

Maybe they are lazy, maybe they are not. It's not about my friends specifically, it's about the whole server. Regardless of how they are, or for that matter anyone is, something that's so incredibly boring and long like the tutorial should be removed, especially if it's the first thing players see from the server. Why should someone have to be FORCED to sit through a tutorial if they want to play on the server? How does that make any sense?
Keep in mind that when I talk about the tutorial I don't mean the rules area, I mean specifically the whole tutorial village.

 

[huntmoak]

Maybe they are lazy, maybe they are not. It's not about my friends specifically, it's about the whole server. Regardless of how they are, or for that matter anyone is, something that's so incredibly boring and long like the tutorial should be removed, especially if it's the first thing players see from the server. Why should someone have to be FORCED to sit through a tutorial if they want to play on the server? How does that make any sense?

Usually if someone is required to invest a few minutes into something they are a lot less likely to throw it away or do something stupid. Maybe grief or something else, perhaps they feel they don't need the tutorial and skip it, but are helplessly lost. The tutorial is only there to help people. If they feel they can't spend a few minutes reading, then maybe they shouldn't be there at all?

 

[gontron]

I understand that you think of the tutorial area as a filter for people who'll grief or won't play at all. But it's also a thing that scares away those who might get into the game otherwise. People come online the server without knowing what it's actually about, and the first thing we show them is a long, boring and confusing tutorial area? How could anyone be so devoted to a server and sit through that when they don't even know what is actually coming once it ends, especially considering most servers aren't really as cool as this one might be?

 

[Kainzo]

to note, the tutorial island will be optional soon connected through the hub

 

[gontron]

That's great! Thank you, Kainzo.