Suggestion Trade District Shops

[Dwarfers]

So, a lot of people are pissed and want to buy a shop, but when you go searching for one, most of them are purchased already and quite a lot of them are EMPTY without a chest shop. I understand the whole 'I'm renting it out", but shouldn't you have gotten the message that nobody wants to rent a shop from you after you have been trying to for nearly a month if not more?

I suggest that once you buy a shop that you have 3 days or so to get a few(meaning more than one) chestshop in there so people aren't sitting on a shop for months and not even using them otherwise the shop is put back on sale. Yeah, there is the whole weekly rent thing but most of these guys who have an empty shop wait till the last second to renew it.

 

[archceaser]

So, a lot of people are pissed and want to buy a shop, but when you go searching for one, most of them are purchased already and quite a lot of them are EMPTY without a chest shop. I understand the whole 'I'm renting it out", but shouldn't you have gotten the message that nobody wants to rent a shop from you after you have been trying to for nearly a month if not more?

I suggest that once you buy a shop that you have 3 days or so to get a few(meaning more than one) chestshop in there so people aren't sitting on a shop for months and not even using them otherwise the shop is put back on sale. Yeah, there is the whole weekly rent thing but most of these guys who have an empty shop wait till the last second to renew it.

I completely agree with this, due to circumstances beyond my control i wasn't able to get on to renew my TD shop, (lost all the items and didn't even get refunds on the lost chest shops), so i decided might as well start fresh and look around for a new shop, EVEN with the huge amount of expansion that the admins did there are none available. People like @CrafyCrafter should be able to sit on 3 shops completely empty just to try to rip someone else off by trying to sell them a shop they don't even own or rent it for a stupid rate.

Also @Angyles I think you are awesome and do a great job being a mod and head proctor but i don't see what you should be able to have a TD shop in a prime location and not use it to sell items as is required by the rules, maybe you could build yourself a nice house in the new spawn plots that are open for rent, not trying to be mean just saying.

 

[Yavool]

I completely agree with this, due to circumstances beyond my control i wasn't able to get on to renew my TD shop, (lost all the items and didn't even get refunds on the lost chest shops), so i decided might as well start fresh and look around for a new shop, EVEN with the huge amount of expansion that the admins did there are none available. People like @CrafyCrafter should be able to sit on 3 shops completely empty just to try to rip someone else off by trying to sell them a shop they don't even own or rent it for a stupid rate.

Also @Angyles I think you are awesome and do a great job being a mod and head proctor but i don't see what you should be able to have a TD shop in a prime location and not use it to sell items as is required by the rules, maybe you could build yourself a nice house in the new spawn plots that are open for rent, not trying to be mean just saying.

I agree with the above. ^ I also agree with what @Dwarfers said, except perhaps not 3 days, but at least within a week. I've already made a lengthy description of the process in a prior post, so I won't repeat myself. It was great to get most of the shops tagged for rent, and I understand PVP is a HUGE priority right now...but the Trade District is only about 50% of where it should be with regard to development, protocol, enforcement, and standard rules of operation.

I am guilty of having an undeveloped shop right now, mainly because I have been waiting for 3 weeks for @CrafyCrafter to stop renewing the two shops that he has absolutely no interest in developing and is rather trying to turn a few bucks by selling it to someone at a premium over the rental cost. I hope that I might be able to pick one of those up and develop that spot instead of the one I have (which would be a better location and size for the business I wish to put in it). I think this is entirely inappropriate to be "selling" TD shops to make money, and hopefully @Kainzo will put an end to it soon.

Arch, sorry for the loss of your shop. I hope you are able to recoup your losses in other ways.

-yav

 

[archceaser]

I agree with the above. ^ I also agree with what @Dwarfers said, except perhaps not 3 days, but at least within a week. I've already made a lengthy description of the process in a prior post, so I won't repeat myself. It was great to get most of the shops tagged for rent, and I understand PVP is a HUGE priority right now...but the Trade District is only about 50% of where it should be with regard to development, protocol, enforcement, and standard rules of operation.

I am guilty of having an undeveloped shop right now, mainly because I have been waiting for 3 weeks for @CrafyCrafter to stop renewing the two shops that he has absolutely no interest in developing and is rather trying to turn a few bucks by selling it to someone at a premium over the rental cost. I hope that I might be able to pick one of those up and develop that spot instead of the one I have (which would be a better location and size for the business I wish to put in it). I think this is entirely inappropriate to be "selling" TD shops to make money, and hopefully @Kainzo will put an end to it soon.

Arch, sorry for the loss of your shop. I hope you are able to recoup your losses in other ways.

-yav

Yea the only 4 or 5 shops i can find are those shitty little stalls behind the exchange that most ppl don't even know exists but i guess if this doesn't get resolved i have no choice.

 

[Angyles]

Also @Angyles I think you are awesome and do a great job being a mod and head proctor but i don't see what you should be able to have a TD shop in a prime location and not use it to sell items as is required by the rules, maybe you could build yourself a nice house in the new spawn plots that are open for rent, not trying to be mean just saying.

It is not a house perse and it was my understand that was never supposed to be a sold building. @gabizou was the one who set it up.

I am guilty of having an undeveloped shop right now, mainly because I have been waiting for 3 weeks for @CrafyCrafter to stop renewing the two shops that he has absolutely no interest in developing and is rather trying to turn a few bucks by selling it to someone at a premium over the rental cost. I hope that I might be able to pick one of those up and develop that spot instead of the one I have (which would be a better location and size for the business I wish to put in it). I think this is entirely inappropriate to be "selling" TD shops to make money, and hopefully @Kainzo will put an end to it soon.

Unfortunately there is no way to really police that, the selling of the shops. People last map complained they wanted to allow others to use their shop so that is happening this map and now people are complaining about it. Need to make up your minds =p.

How do we know if he "sold" a spot to someone in his shop or it is just a friend with a shop in there with him?

I suppose we could go back to the old way of only the owner could build but then everyone would complain again.

 

[archceaser]

It is not a house perse and it was my understand that was never supposed to be a sold building. @gabizou was the one who set it up.



Unfortunately there is no way to really police that, the selling of the shops. People last map complained they wanted to allow others to use their shop so that is happening this map and now people are complaining about it. Need to make up your minds =p.

How do we know if he "sold" a spot to someone in his shop or it is just a friend with a shop in there with him?

I suppose we could go back to the old way of only the owner could build but then everyone would complain again.

AH alright i understand about the house but there are some shops that you will see a sign in the doorway that says "For sale or rent".

 

[Angyles]

AH alright i understand about the house but there are some shops that you will see a sign in the doorway that says "For sale or rent".

Are you talking about ones by someone who is trying to sell/rent them or are they just shops without the rent sign?

 

[j2gay]

The only reasonable way I see to prevent the behavior you are speaking of here is to increase the price and the rent of the shops, there for increasing the risk. An economy is part of any RPG server, albeit a smaller part of HC than I would like to see. Real estate is a business like any other. The buying, selling and renting of spaces, either in player towns or at spawn, should be encourage not discouraged. Try to remember that there is risk involved for the people who are "sitting on these shops" as you say. There is a very good possibility that they will never recoup their investment, especially if these shops remain empty for a long period.
Have a little patience and wait for them to become either bored or desperate, either way they will just want to get rid of them at that point.

 

[archceaser]

Are you talking about ones by someone who is trying to sell/rent them or are they just shops without the rent sign?

No there is a sign 2 blocks in the door way saying "for sale or rent".

 

[archceaser]

The only reasonable way I see to prevent the behavior you are speaking of here is to increase the price and the rent of the shops, there for increasing the risk. An economy is part of any RPG server, albeit a smaller part of HC than I would like to see. Real estate is a business like any other. The buying, selling and renting of spaces, either in player towns or at spawn, should be encourage not discouraged. Try to remember that there is risk involved for the people who are "sitting on these shops" as you say. There is a very good possibility that they will never recoup their investment, especially if these shops remain empty for a long period.
Have a little patience and wait for them to become either bored or desperate, either way they will just want to get rid of them at that point.

They don't own the shops they rent it from the server and they haven't gotten bored yet and some of these shops have been sitting empty for a month, there is no real estate market on this server.

 

[j2gay]

They don't own the shops they rent it from the server and they haven't gotten bored yet and some of these shops have been sitting empty for a month, there is no real estate market on this server.

Your statement contradicts itself. You say these shops are offered by players for sale or rent, and then you say that there is no real estate market. Which is it? If players have procured the space and are seeking to sublease it to other players then there is a real estate market, like it or not.

 

[archceaser]

Your statement contradicts itself. You say these shops are offered by players for sale or rent, and then you say that there is no real estate market. Which is it? If players have procured the space and are seeking to sublease it to other players then there is a real estate market, like it or not.

I don't know of anyone that wants to buy into a sublease and all these empty shops do is prevent merchants who want to make money to get a shop. Obviously if after a month no one is wanting to rent or buy a sublease from you you should let the time run out. There is no real estate market but a few people sure try to make one to rip someone else off.

 

[Dwarfers]

It's like someone renting from someone who is renting. One person is renting the shop already from the server, "lease money", and another is renting from that person. Nobody wants to rent from another person from what I can see.

 

[Angyles]

It's like someone renting from someone who is renting. One person is renting the shop already from the server, "lease money", and another is renting from that person. Nobody wants to rent from another person from what I can see.

Some people have questioned me on it, and honestly I advise against it as if the rent runs out you are SoL. Someone new will grab the shop and you will lose any chest shops you have in there, as well as the items.

No there is a sign 2 blocks in the door way saying "for sale or rent".

So the server rent sign is missing? Sorry I am confused by what you are saying.

 

[darkbalde2040]

Some people have questioned me on it, and honestly I advise against it as if the rent runs out you are SoL. Someone new will grab the shop and you will lose any chest shops you have in there, as well as the items.



So the server rent sign is missing? Sorry I am confused by what you are saying.

i believe what he is talking about is someone will buy a shop then put a sign in the shop saying "for sale or rent" and never use the shop they just got to it try and make money off other people who would like the shop. i know of one shop that des that.

 

[Angyles]

i believe what he is talking about is someone will buy a shop then put a sign in the shop saying "for sale or rent" and never use the shop they just got to it try and make money off other people who would like the shop. i know of one shop that des that.

Yeah that so far is legal and people are able to do that.

I say make the suggestion to not allow subleasing in the suggestion forum.

 

[Babibab]

They don't own the shops they rent it from the server and they haven't gotten bored yet and some of these shops have been sitting empty for a month, there is no real estate market on this server.

Yeah that so far is legal and people are able to do that.

Archceaser, I don't want to be harsh, but you should get creative with your selling.... The TD shops aren't the only ones you can buy or sell from, the whole wilderness is open. Why not make a second trade district right outside spawn bridges? If you have pricing that undercuts the trade district, and are close enough to it, you're bound to get steady customers! By settling the shops right on the border of the no-pvp line, you can guarantee the same safe purchasing.

The fact is, there is a real estate market on HC, and like the people that rent the TD shops just to sublease them out because they think they can make a buck, you should get creative, by opening up another TD (a working one that is), you'll devaluate pricing and demand on the spawn district.

Have a go at it! I'll be your first customer if you need!

 

[Angyles]

Archceaser, I don't want to be harsh, but you should get creative with your selling.... The TD shops aren't the only ones you can buy or sell from, the whole wilderness is open. Why not make a second trade district right outside spawn bridges? If you have pricing that undercuts the trade district, and are close enough to it, you're bound to get steady customers! By settling the shops right on the border of the no-pvp line, you can guarantee the same safe purchasing.

That is a good point, there is a ton of space along the roads that people claimed but never built anything.

 

[Yavool]

It is not a house perse and it was my understand that was never supposed to be a sold building. @gabizou was the one who set it up.

If my memory serves me correct, the shop in question in Shrine is tagged as a trade district shop.

Unfortunately there is no way to really police that, the selling of the shops. People last map complained they wanted to allow others to use their shop so that is happening this map and now people are complaining about it. Need to make up your minds =p.

How do we know if he "sold" a spot to someone in his shop or it is just a friend with a shop in there with him?

I suppose we could go back to the old way of only the owner could build but then everyone would complain again.

I think the main point is that we care not *who* uses the shop so as long as *someone* is using the shop and the shop isn't simply sitting, or being touted as "for sale to the highest bidder." The shop below has been exactly as posted for the past month. The screenshot is from today:



This is entirely unacceptable. Trade shop "squatting" should not be allowed.

Regarding the "higest bid" concept, I personally offered 1,000 souls and 5,000 souls for two different pieces of property in the TD from Crafy. He did not reply. It can easily be inferred that he is not "leasing" or "selling" these plots, but rather he is completely prohibiting others from using them. As a policy, this should not be allowed.

Requiring someone to build chest shops within their shops within a week of them purchasing them is reasonable. Announcing this policy as a HC rule, and then subsequently allowing others to /pe and submit a report in game so that mods can create something as easy as a sign stating that the tenant of the TD shop has 3 days to build or they forfeit the shop also seems reasonable.

The whole point of this is that there are a limited number of Trade District shops, and the shops that could be used aren't being used due to squatters who have no intention to build within their shops and instead have ulterior motives that are not in the spirit of the Trade District.

-yav

Archceaser, I don't want to be harsh, but you should get creative with your selling.... The TD shops aren't the only ones you can buy or sell from, the whole wilderness is open. Why not make a second trade district right outside spawn bridges? If you have pricing that undercuts the trade district, and are close enough to it, you're bound to get steady customers! By settling the shops right on the border of the no-pvp line, you can guarantee the same safe purchasing.

The fact is, there is a real estate market on HC, and like the people that rent the TD shops just to sublease them out because they think they can make a buck, you should get creative, by opening up another TD (a working one that is), you'll devaluate pricing and demand on the spawn district.

Have a go at it! I'll be your first customer if you need!

As noble of an attempt your suggestion is, In Haven, this is ridiculous. There is no honor in PVPing right now, and creating trade shops outside of the safety of Spawn is simply another reason for the starved PVPers to camp those shops. My very first death the day I got whitelisted many moons ago was at the hands of a camping C4ruso who was there for the express reason of ganking noobs. IMHO, camping trade shops outside of Spawn is as honorless as gaking noobs in Ruins, but it exists nonetheless and without reprocussion. We have no honor ranking system, no karma system, no negative penalty for killing "honest" merchants or shoppers, and for these reasons, shops outside of the TD are not without extreme danger.

-yav

 

[darkbalde2040]

@Yavool only problem i see with this someone can just setup a single redstone shop and keep the for lease/sale posted.