Suggestion Township 3.0 rework ideas

[barbas0l]

I'd like to start out by apologizing for trashing townships 3.0. I'm gonna be honest, I've been pretty upset ever since I started reading about it. I'd like to point out what I believe are some of the most glaring issues with the system, and then I'd like to generate some dialogue on possible changes/reworks that would improve the system.

Main Issues

• Required materials and sizes for buildings limit player creativity. Towns will start to look a bit similar imo.
  
• Costs, building, and building size requirements for town upgrades are a bit ridiculous as you upgrade in size. ( Two buildings I need for upgrading from t3->t4 are both 23x23x23, and neither building will EVER get used/inhabited, too much wasted space)
• Multiple glow rings in the sky. Small gripe I know, but my sky looks so messy now XD
• Lack of support information for the currently used system. It's a nightmare figuring everything out, and even harder to explain to newer players.
• Inability to rework/rebuild buildings that are placed. Essentially I have to place a block to remove a block or destroy the whole building. I'm having an ocd freakout XD
• Citizen limitations. I've got a waiting list for the foreseeable future for my citizens. I see COUNTLESS newer players begging for town invites, but nobody has the space, especially for noobs/newer players. We need to keep these newer players around, and they are basically ignored atm. I am a big noob helper, and it really pains me to see so many newer players getting the cold shoulder, only because the new system basically shuns them. In the past, I've invited players to my towns, got them involved early, and now some of them are long time veterans and HC contributors.
  
• Too much complexity for the townships system. Don't get me wrong I liked the idea/direction of added depth to the township system, but in practice it's a convoluted mess. A LOT of experienced players are struggling, the system is the opposite of intuitive.
• to be continued after more coffee....

Rework/Improvement Ideas

• Remove the required buildings and the required building materials. Forcing players to build mundane and useless buildings that don't fit into their theme/building style makes me feel like I'm dealing with RL building codes and politics that don't truly benefit anyone. Instead, give players the OPTION to build those buildings based on the benefits that they grant. Not to mention making me build from a list of pre-determined materials in a pre-determined size makes me want to freak the fuck out XD. Might as well just pre-make the buildings for us and let us world-edit them in with the current system.
• Remove prior rings once you upgrade, again small problem, but would clean up the skies of towns.
• I'd love to be able to help create a town creation guide, but tbh I'm still struggling to understand a lot of the current system. It's just really convoluted and non-intuitive. We could probably do without half the options within the system and still be okay. I understand the goal was to create a more complex and enriched township system, but it feels too complex and messy. I like the in-game shop system, but with so many options and buildings it's a bit overwhelming trying to figure out what your town should build and focus on.
• With the current system, rebuilding/reworking buildings is a complete pain. Another option would be creating a building nearby that you can transfer the region to, or remove the minimum req'd materials for buildings that inhibit you from rebuilding the building.
• For the sake of the server and the newcomers we need to increase the citizen caps on towns. I cant tell you how many tells and messages a day I get BEGGING for invites. I've explained countless times that I cannot invite anymore people due to township housing limitations. I'm a t3 town, but I only have 12 citizen slots, and I'm trying to build more housing asap, but its not fast enough for the amount of citizens in waiting I have. Increasing the amount of citizens the housing options give would help, removing that aspect and basing it off size would be better imo.
• Dumb down the system. All the options and required buildings create a large complex system that isn't very user friendly. We're a bunch of min/max munchkins, and we're all going to go for the best possible options, so having options that aren't as beneficial just creates a lot of unused buildings and ideas.
• To be continued!

Kain edit:
Tagging @mung3r | @Alator | @cindy_k

 

[Mr_Lolrus]

The shop/list GUI and /town help page could use work. The GUI closes prematurely if I left click the redstone block in the corner to navigate back after looking up more info from the shop.

The wiki could use some work on explaining building requirements, upgrading buildings, and permissions.

The /town command shows a list of commands, but is formatted and coded in a non-noob friendly way. Syntax errors aren't reported and instead displays the /town page again. Colors and organization would help for readability.

The /town deposit | withdraw commands have to have a city name inputed, so unless players want to donate money to another township, it should default to the township I am currently in.

Status messages would be neat for when regions trigger certain events, such as my shacks consuming a stack of carrots, giving me the message "20s has been deposited into your account from: 1 shelter."

/town list causes confusion between /town listall

Being able to unlock buildings that we can't build due to township tier should not be included.

Permissions could be organized to allow custom permission groups to be created, instead of just members and owners.

wtf is a town charter lol

I really liked the /town bank command from the previous town plugin. Please bring that back

Automation of regions is confusing, but has a lot of potential.

Being able to move the central chest for a region to be just somewhere within the region would be useful. I have a chest floating in the center of a shack as of right now.

A lot of the really neat regions are only available to Village+.

The guide is really overwhelming, especially with explaining power, sieging, and warring. Please keep it simple.

I'll post more suggestions as they come to me.
I REALLY like the idea of Townships 3.0, but the execution needs work.

 

[devotedworker]

I'd like to start out by apologizing for trashing townships 3.0. I'm gonna be honest, I've been pretty upset ever since I started reading about it. I'd like to point out what I believe are some of the most glaring issues with the system, and then I'd like to generate some dialogue on possible changes/reworks that would improve the system.

Main Issues

• Required materials and sizes for buildings limit player creativity. Towns will start to look a bit similar imo.
  
• Costs, building, and building size requirements for town upgrades are a bit ridiculous as you upgrade in size. ( Two buildings I need for upgrading from t3->t4 are both 23x23x23, and neither building will EVER get used/inhabited, too much wasted space)
• Multiple glow rings in the sky. Small gripe I know, but my sky looks so messy now XD
• Lack of support information for the currently used system. It's a nightmare figuring everything out, and even harder to explain to newer players.
• Inability to rework/rebuild buildings that are placed. Essentially I have to place a block to remove a block or destroy the whole building. I'm having an ocd freakout XD
• Citizen limitations. I've got a waiting list for the foreseeable future for my citizens. I see COUNTLESS newer players begging for town invites, but nobody has the space, especially for noobs/newer players. We need to keep these newer players around, and they are basically ignored atm. I am a big noob helper, and it really pains me to see so many newer players getting the cold shoulder, only because the new system basically shuns them. In the past, I've invited players to my towns, got them involved early, and now some of them are long time veterans and HC contributors.
  
• Too much complexity for the townships system. Don't get me wrong I liked the idea/direction of added depth to the township system, but in practice it's a convoluted mess. A LOT of experienced players are struggling, the system is the opposite of intuitive.
• to be continued after more coffee....

Rework/Improvement Ideas

• Remove the required buildings and the required building materials. Forcing players to build mundane and useless buildings that don't fit into their theme/building style makes me feel like I'm dealing with RL building codes and politics that don't truly benefit anyone. Instead, give players the OPTION to build those buildings based on the benefits that they grant. Not to mention making me build from a list of pre-determined materials in a pre-determined size makes me want to freak the fuck out XD. Might as well just pre-make the buildings for us and let us world-edit them in with the current system.
• Remove prior rings once you upgrade, again small problem, but would clean up the skies of towns.
• I'd love to be able to help create a town creation guide, but tbh I'm still struggling to understand a lot of the current system. It's just really convoluted and non-intuitive. We could probably do without half the options within the system and still be okay. I understand the goal was to create a more complex and enriched township system, but it feels too complex and messy. I like the in-game shop system, but with so many options and buildings it's a bit overwhelming trying to figure out what your town should build and focus on.
• With the current system, rebuilding/reworking buildings is a complete pain. Another option would be creating a building nearby that you can transfer the region to, or remove the minimum req'd materials for buildings that inhibit you from rebuilding the building.
• For the sake of the server and the newcomers we need to increase the citizen caps on towns. I cant tell you how many tells and messages a day I get BEGGING for invites. I've explained countless times that I cannot invite anymore people due to township housing limitations. I'm a t3 town, but I only have 12 citizen slots, and I'm trying to build more housing asap, but its not fast enough for the amount of citizens in waiting I have. Increasing the amount of citizens the housing options give would help, removing that aspect and basing it off size would be better imo.
• Dumb down the system. All the options and required buildings create a large complex system that isn't very user friendly. We're a bunch of min/max munchkins, and we're all going to go for the best possible options, so having options that aren't as beneficial just creates a lot of unused buildings and ideas.
• To be continued!

Well here's my input on some of the Suggested Changes you have

1. The Required building list is kinda the only way to measure really progress in the town. Otherwise, someone on the /money top list could theoretically make a MAX Town pretty quickly... which is "Impossible". But the Materials issue you mentioned, that actually can be changed with a Config. Kainzo ( Thankfully ) decressed the requirement of certain materials in a town by a lot... ( Compared to last map its a huge difference ) so if needed he could change the list to be more diverse, but still I have yet to have an issue this map with not building a building how I wanted.

2. I guess that could be done with the town rings. I mean worst case we can just PE an Admin if it can't be fixed by our magical coders

3 & 4. Well I see why the system looks so complex... but there actually is a lot more to the plugin. It just wasn't added to the version Herocraft is using. But still I can see why its really overwelming, and to anyone who hasn't worked with the plugin for a long time, it looks terrifying... Maybe I'll try to write a beginners guide to help with that . I'll tag you if I do decide to do that so you can help or add on to it.

5. Reworking buildings? ( I'm going to assume you mean remodeling the building ) If you wanna change out the inside, the best way I do it is place another of the material ( For example a bed ) then remove the old one, and go from there until everything the way I want it. It might not be a perfect idea, but until something else comes... that is probably how your going to be forced to do it

6. Your a T3 town with only 12 Citizens? o_o you clearly aren't doing that right... During the T3 Stage there you should have either gotten a Barrack or a Hotel, which grants 10 Extra slots each ( I think ) and a bonus depending on which one you choose. Also build a lot more shacks, and if you can't, upgrade your previous shacks into houses with /to rebuild house ( While standing in it ) to make it a different type of building ( and now it should by 9 by 9 by 9 centered around the old chest ) and you can now build another shack. Another solution is the T3+ Buildings ( Like the Mansion and the French sounding buildings ) , but they require materials only a Farmer can obtain ( Like seeds and stuff ) so @Kainzo might wanna check that over and see if thats something that can be changed.

7. The system is a lot less complex than it looks, but I agree when I looked at it the first time... it was scary :_:, I'll try to work up a basic tutorial for you all

8. kk, I'll be waiting :3

Also FYI I'm actually going to start a Tutorial after I post this... so, I guess look out for that

 

[barbas0l]

Well here's my input on some of the Suggested Changes you have

1. The Required building list is kinda the only way to measure really progress in the town. Otherwise, someone on the /money top list could theoretically make a MAX Town pretty quickly... which is "Impossible". But the Materials issue you mentioned, that actually can be changed with a Config. Kainzo ( Thankfully ) decressed the requirement of certain materials in a town by a lot... ( Compared to last map its a huge difference ) so if needed he could change the list to be more diverse, but still I have yet to have an issue this map with not building a building how I wanted.

2. I guess that could be done with the town rings. I mean worst case we can just PE an Admin if it can't be fixed by our magical coders

3 & 4. Well I see why the system looks so complex... but there actually is a lot more to the plugin. It just wasn't added to the version Herocraft is using. But still I can see why its really overwelming, and to anyone who hasn't worked with the plugin for a long time, it looks terrifying... Maybe I'll try to write a beginners guide to help with that . I'll tag you if I do decide to do that so you can help or add on to it.

5. Reworking buildings? ( I'm going to assume you mean remodeling the building ) If you wanna change out the inside, the best way I do it is place another of the material ( For example a bed ) then remove the old one, and go from there until everything the way I want it. It might not be a perfect idea, but until something else comes... that is probably how your going to be forced to do it

6. Your a T3 town with only 12 Citizens? o_o you clearly aren't doing that right... During the T3 Stage there you should have either gotten a Barrack or a Hotel, which grants 10 Extra slots each ( I think ) and a bonus depending on which one you choose. Also build a lot more shacks, and if you can't, upgrade your previous shacks into houses with /to rebuild house ( While standing in it ) to make it a different type of building ( and now it should by 9 by 9 by 9 centered around the old chest ) and you can now build another shack. Another solution is the T3+ Buildings ( Like the Mansion and the French sounding buildings ) , but they require materials only a Farmer can obtain ( Like seeds and stuff ) so @Kainzo might wanna check that over and see if thats something that can be changed.

7. The system is a lot less complex than it looks, but I agree when I looked at it the first time... it was scary :_:, I'll try to work up a basic tutorial for you all

8. kk, I'll be waiting :3

Also FYI I'm actually going to start a Tutorial after I post this... so, I guess look out for that

@1 It's kind of the only way AS IT IS NOW. Which is why I started this thread, we could benefit from a different system of requirements.

@3&4 Has anyone worked with it for a long period of time? I was only away 1 short map, so I cant imagine too many people are township 3.0 pro's, which is why I spawned this thread haha.

@5 - Yea I realized that was the only way, and I also realized that it needed a change. Editing a building by placing a block to remove a block is really messy and poorly designed method of construction.

@6 - I have 8 shacks and 2 houses, I've bought the plans for the inn, but I'm having to clear a 23x23x23 area for it, and tbh thats a large area of my region that wont ever be used. (which is my main gripe) Currently shacks grant 1 citizen, houses grant 1 citizen, and chalets grant 1 citizen, I can understand the shack, but houses and chalets should grant more room imo. I JUST got t3 yesterday, so its not that crazy to only have room for 12 citizens, as the plugin is currently designed that it. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one experiencing this issue.

@7 - Imagine you haven't been on the server for years, and now imagine you're starting out fresh here. Would you feel more or less inclined to stay from the first glance at townships. My point is, it's not very user friendly, telling me its not that bad doesn't do much. Even a guide won't be super beneficial considering a lot of the commands within the plugin aren't functioning as intended.

Again this is a suggestion thread, so please add ideas lol. Telling me how to use the currently bad system isn't what I'm looking for XD

 

[Bluekitty17]

I agree with all your points, and as a tester of the original, I can say that it wasn't quite planned for the massive amount of people we have now, but rather for the small trickle we had near the end of last map. I think that there should be required buildings, but much much less requirements on them than what we have now, with the pretty much cookie-cutter councilroom and others.
Also, something definitely needs to be done about the unlock/build cost. Keep one or the other, but both is just too ridiculous and wasteful.
If you actually take the time to look at it, the system's not that hard. devoted makes lots of good points in his post, about all of the things.

 

[Kainzo]

Thanks for posting this - I was really against the limiting of creativity by requiring block materials in the creation process. @Alator was suppose to chop these requirements by 50-75% but not sure if that got in before live. ( i think it did )

The good thing is, we can change the configs to match a lot of these points and I think we should. We don't want to stunt the growth of a town because of limiting factors in the configs.

 

[Watermelon_01]

I agree with all your points, and as a tester of the original, I can say that it wasn't quite planned for the massive amount of people we have now,

By the way, was the start of Aegis and Sanctuary like this? The way that we have over a 100 people on the server at certain times (do notice a pattern in times that people aren't on, same pattern as last maps)?

 

[Bluekitty17]

By the way, was the start of Aegis and Sanctuary like this? The way that we have over a 100 people on the server at certain times (do notice a pattern in times that people aren't on, same pattern as last maps)?

Yeah we had it, just Townships 3.0 was made and put in to play near the end of Aegis/Sanctuary, so the devs who worked on it didn't quite expect nearly as much people as we have now.

 

[j2gay]

I'd like to start out by apologizing for trashing townships 3.0. I'm gonna be honest, I've been pretty upset ever since I started reading about it. I'd like to point out what I believe are some of the most glaring issues with the system, and then I'd like to generate some dialogue on possible changes/reworks that would improve the system.

Main Issues

• Required materials and sizes for buildings limit player creativity. Towns will start to look a bit similar imo.
  
• Costs, building, and building size requirements for town upgrades are a bit ridiculous as you upgrade in size. ( Two buildings I need for upgrading from t3->t4 are both 23x23x23, and neither building will EVER get used/inhabited, too much wasted space)
• Multiple glow rings in the sky. Small gripe I know, but my sky looks so messy now XD
• Lack of support information for the currently used system. It's a nightmare figuring everything out, and even harder to explain to newer players.
• Inability to rework/rebuild buildings that are placed. Essentially I have to place a block to remove a block or destroy the whole building. I'm having an ocd freakout XD
• Citizen limitations. I've got a waiting list for the foreseeable future for my citizens. I see COUNTLESS newer players begging for town invites, but nobody has the space, especially for noobs/newer players. We need to keep these newer players around, and they are basically ignored atm. I am a big noob helper, and it really pains me to see so many newer players getting the cold shoulder, only because the new system basically shuns them. In the past, I've invited players to my towns, got them involved early, and now some of them are long time veterans and HC contributors.
  
• Too much complexity for the townships system. Don't get me wrong I liked the idea/direction of added depth to the township system, but in practice it's a convoluted mess. A LOT of experienced players are struggling, the system is the opposite of intuitive.
• to be continued after more coffee....

Rework/Improvement Ideas

• Remove the required buildings and the required building materials. Forcing players to build mundane and useless buildings that don't fit into their theme/building style makes me feel like I'm dealing with RL building codes and politics that don't truly benefit anyone. Instead, give players the OPTION to build those buildings based on the benefits that they grant. Not to mention making me build from a list of pre-determined materials in a pre-determined size makes me want to freak the fuck out XD. Might as well just pre-make the buildings for us and let us world-edit them in with the current system.
• Remove prior rings once you upgrade, again small problem, but would clean up the skies of towns.
• I'd love to be able to help create a town creation guide, but tbh I'm still struggling to understand a lot of the current system. It's just really convoluted and non-intuitive. We could probably do without half the options within the system and still be okay. I understand the goal was to create a more complex and enriched township system, but it feels too complex and messy. I like the in-game shop system, but with so many options and buildings it's a bit overwhelming trying to figure out what your town should build and focus on.
• With the current system, rebuilding/reworking buildings is a complete pain. Another option would be creating a building nearby that you can transfer the region to, or remove the minimum req'd materials for buildings that inhibit you from rebuilding the building.
• For the sake of the server and the newcomers we need to increase the citizen caps on towns. I cant tell you how many tells and messages a day I get BEGGING for invites. I've explained countless times that I cannot invite anymore people due to township housing limitations. I'm a t3 town, but I only have 12 citizen slots, and I'm trying to build more housing asap, but its not fast enough for the amount of citizens in waiting I have. Increasing the amount of citizens the housing options give would help, removing that aspect and basing it off size would be better imo.
• Dumb down the system. All the options and required buildings create a large complex system that isn't very user friendly. We're a bunch of min/max munchkins, and we're all going to go for the best possible options, so having options that aren't as beneficial just creates a lot of unused buildings and ideas.
• To be continued!

Kain edit:
Tagging @mung3r | @Alator | @cindy_k

Well said sir, well said.

 

[j2gay]

Well said sir, well said.

I have to say as the person who first suggested having certain buildings be required for upgrading your town the way the current system does it is very cumbersome. My original suggestion was intended to combat the tendency toward cobble boxes and force people to build attractive towns. The block requirements imposed currently seem to be doing the opposite.

 

[Mr_Lolrus]

Using outposts to gather resorces from different biomes (sponge in deep ocean)

• This may discourage trade though, so maybe having to chain outposts with a set distance between each one would work.
• Make outposts for sieging global, but resource outposts daisy-chained.

 

[j2gay]

Using outposts to gather resorces from different biomes (sponge in deep ocean)

• This may discourage trade though, so maybe having to chain outposts with a set distance between each one would work.
• Make outposts for sieging global, but resource outposts daisy-chained.

Daisy chain them all. Its difficult to wage a war without an open supply route

 

[Alator]

Yes, the required blocks are half of what they were during the last map. I'm going to look through this in more detail tonight. I need to pull everything apart and really dig into it, but petitions have kept me really busy lately. Expect and update post sometime late tonight.

On the flipside, I can also create additional structures. I have already had a request for a mushroom biome-specific structure to be put in like for the other ones.

 

[Alator]

I'm getting on TS now. Feel free to hop on and chat.

 

[Beau_Nearh]

My thoughts;

>the required blocks for each building are there for two reasons; 1.) to slow down the process of actually creating that many regions, just like devoted said. Anyone with enough funding could easily create a top tier super region due to the fact there are no block requirements. 2.) Another reason why having a set amount of blocks that have to be used is to help visiter/ raiders visually see what region is there (for the most part). Also encourages actual structures to be made rather than a load of region chests.

A way to get around this problem for themed cities would be to place all the required blocks at the bottom of the regions radius underground (out if sight). This is now very easy to achive due to the required blocks being a lot lower and the region radius's being fairly big. (It's not the best but it's a work around I may be doing).

>I do agree that modifying an existing region is a bit of a pain so my solution to this would be to; Add a command that allows you to place all the required blocks into the region chest. This will count as the regioned blocks but would also stop any payouts/ upkeeps taking place until the required blocks are placed again (stops people abusing it)

>I completely agree with removing the previous rings created by the super region and replace them with the new superregions ring.

>citizen limits is a big point. On one hand, you don't want to allow players to invite everyone and anyone to their town because 1.) Who would bother making a new town if you have the option to join one with 60+ active players? 2.) Makes it so the owner actually has to be able to 'support' that amount of people. This comes in the form of housing. 3.) encourages town growth (why bother upgrading from a hamlet which costs ALOT of money and time?)

While on the other hand, you really want to try create an active community and help newer players get involved.

Note; as devoted said, you should personally have a much higher cap of citz but you need to build the max cap of housing and/ or any other structures that grant extra slots (I think the Inn grants another 10 slots).

>complexity of the plugin. This is where I disagree heavily. As it stands currently, it encourages players who actually want to use the plugin to actually look into how it works and why it works. The wiki does cover mostly everything regarding the creation ect of regions/ super regions. Giving players such a huge possibility (making a lot of money and resources) shouldn't be that easy.

>I don't have an opinion on whether a guide should or should not be made but I'd be very Intrested to see how it comes out.

This should be everything (I hope). Will add anything else I missed on as a note

 

[barbas0l]

The required blocks isn't the only way to slow down growth, in previous maps we've used different items that towns must gather before being able to upgrade. You could even institute a time-table that limits growth/expansion.

Does hiding a lot of your useless buildings really sound like an efficient way to build a town? Again this is a suggestion thread, please provide ideas OTHER than what we currently have. I'm not looking on ways to use the current system, I'm looking for ways to IMPROVE IT. Hiding a bunch of req'd blocks is really not what everyone should have to do just to build a building.

Again, I understand how the current citizen cap works, I'm not looking for ways to use the current system. I'm looking for alternatives to citizen cap other than physical buildings. I don't want a 23x23x23 inn that nobody will use siting around town wasting space, or underground wasting space for that matter. As stands, I'm wasting time building inn's and structures nobody will actually ever use.

I liked the direction of the plugin (adding depth to townships), it's just the execution and actual use of the plugin isn't working as intended imo. When I first joined herocraft, I joined a pre-existing town and a week later I was starting my own town. It's been project after project since then. I've invited newbie after newbie to these projects, many of which who followed in my footsteps of town creation. This is the first time I've felt COMPLETELY handcuffed on my project in terms of how/what I want to build, and who I can invite.

Again, this is a SUGGESTION thread. I want ideas on ways we can improve the system, not ways to work around a system that most of us can agree is a complete headache. @Beau_Nearh

 

[victim130]

Yeah we had it, just Townships 3.0 was made and put in to play near the end of Aegis/Sanctuary, so the devs who worked on it didn't quite expect nearly as much people as we have now.

Not sure if you guys had a communication error, but Kain is kinda popular and Herocraft even more. You guys should have planned for 300 players average on the first day to about 2 weeks. I've been here for every map relaunch besides Sanctum all those 4 years ago and we pretty much always see a good 50% spike in players or more. Plus since the whitelist changes, we've seen a huge influx of new players per day. Most don't stick around longer than a day, but if we don't engage them, they leave.

 

[Alator]

Keep adding comments/suggestions!

http://herocraftonline.com/main/threads/herocraft-7-0-patch.55730/page-2#post-440408

Explanation time:

Housing

• Houses unlock costs reduced to 1 soul. As these are 100% needed for a town to function, I'm eliminating the unlock fee.
  
• Altered required building blocks to 1 bed, 1 workbench, 1 furnace, 1 chest, and 1 wallsign per population gain of the structure (this includes inn and barracks). Let's get the creative back in towns!

Town Infrastructure
Altered the costs for upgrading a town (the total cost remains the same, just how you are paying for it was adjusted): In an effort to reduce confusion, I moved all of the upgrade cost into the control structure (with the exception of Village and Hamlet as they have none)

• All Infrastructure and Region unlock fees are 1 soul. All costs have been rolled into placement.
  
• Council Rooms costs 2000 souls. The tribe tribe region itself costs 1 soul. This is essentially the same cost as before, it just moved the fee into the creation of the councilroom. Discourages councilrooms being used as residences.
  
• Hamlet region cost adjusted to 2000 souls.
• Village region cost adjusted to 3350 souls.
• Town Hall costs 4500 souls. Town region costs 1 soul.
• City Hall costs 8000 souls. City regions cost 1 soul.
• Capital Building costs 12,000 souls. Metropolis region costs 1 soul.

New Structure

• Campsite: adds 1 population at the expense of 10 power. Allows the pop cap to be bumped up, but decreases the ability of a town to protect itself in a siege.

Other changes

• Reduced radius of inn and barracks regions to 6. Little smaller, still do what they have to do.
• Reduced radius of hospital to 10. A 23 radius building is effing massive
  
• Updated Council Room+ tooltip to clarify the use of redstone in the chest (it drains your money for power regeneration and poison defense). Hopefully people will be less likely to drain their wallets now.
  
• Prevented Residences from being built within a township (I think).
• Altered some more required blocks.

 

[Beau_Nearh]

The required blocks isn't the only way to slow down growth, in previous maps we've used different items that towns must gather before being able to upgrade. You could even institute a time-table that limits growth/expansion.

Does hiding a lot of your useless buildings really sound like an efficient way to build a town? Again this is a suggestion thread, please provide ideas OTHER than what we currently have. I'm not looking on ways to use the current system, I'm looking for ways to IMPROVE IT. Hiding a bunch of req'd blocks is really not what everyone should have to do just to build a building.

Again, I understand how the current citizen cap works, I'm not looking for ways to use the current system. I'm looking for alternatives to citizen cap other than physical buildings. I don't want a 23x23x23 inn that nobody will use siting around town wasting space, or underground wasting space for that matter. As stands, I'm wasting time building inn's and structures nobody will actually ever use.

I liked the direction of the plugin (adding depth to townships), it's just the execution and actual use of the plugin isn't working as intended imo. When I first joined herocraft, I joined a pre-existing town and a week later I was starting my own town. It's been project after project since then. I've invited newbie after newbie to these projects, many of which who followed in my footsteps of town creation. This is the first time I've felt COMPLETELY handcuffed on my project in terms of how/what I want to build, and who I can invite.

Again, this is a SUGGESTION thread. I want ideas on ways we can improve the system, not ways to work around a system that most of us can agree is a complete headache. @Beau_Nearh

Collection of materials for one bulk upgrade is in my opinion boring and where's the fun in that? Where's the indication to people looking into the town of how fast it's growing/ how close is it to being upgraded? This should be a key point that needs to be taken into account due to the super region power system being in place and the power generation difference between super regions (from a raiding perspective).

Hiding the required blocks is just a work around the current system we've got as I personally didn't think it would be changed at all. Bu the main reason for having those blocks was to actually create some sort of structure to each of the towns. With limits of prof crafting, it also gave more use to classes that had very little to sell (farmer --> bookshelves) and in some sense use. (Very little requirements allows the system to be abused a lot easier)

Citizen cap is in place to make sure that the town itself can actually support those players as well as requires x amount of players to be part of that super region. Sure we could maybe increase the citizen caps on each stage of the super structure but these caps should ONLY be reached if housing has been provided (another point to add is that caps have been set to help reduce the amount of money a player can make from investing very little, eg 10 shacks in a tribe would produce too much money for how much has been invested).

But I was only giving constructive criticism back on your suggestions. Another point of view on such big possible changes is important. Anyway this would be my suggestions then if you were looking to change the system to some what something like you proposed;

+Remove all required blocks except basics (chest, bed, crafting table, furnace) and have it so another chest(s) is required to be within the regions area that's full with specific items. These items could be; 128 cobblestone, 5 bookshelves, 1 diamond, 16 iron ect ect. (This is so that you can design the region however you want but still require the player to spend time gathering materials for that specific region). The amount if materials needed in a chest will be dependant on the region itself. (Less for a shack, more for a house).

+Add a region of some sort that costs money to run but allows the citizen cap to be increased by x amount. (This region should NOT produce any money or items and is solely used for increasing the cap at a cost)

+once upgrading super region, the previous ring is removed and the new one is set

+MAYBE increase the base citizen cap of each super region by a small amount

+have the towns upkeep cost dependant on the amount of citizens within in (makes players actually construct housing to support the increased costs). Thinking maybe 10 souls extra per player.


Edit; should of maybe read Altors post before replying but I do agree with some of the changes

 

[Eneokun]

There should be more info on permissions, regarding each individual regions.

I've added a player to a house region, but when I do /to whatshere only I am shown as Owner, not who else has access to the region as a member (not owner). It would give people more assurance in handling region permissions, if there would be more feedback on issued permissions, I think. Overall I think there should be more permission flags regarding use flags and build flags either.

Make the command /town whatshere list up all members of a region in additon instead of owners only, for town regions.