yes we do, they said so, it happened that it was a brother of an enemy who knew what was going on which means that they could have access to it and what doogler said.
I have some friends and brothers who don't have a MC account yet.
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Town theft... again
- Thread starter ADaringEnchilada
- Start date
I have some friends and brothers who don't have a MC account yet.
kevinlive
Legacy Supporter 2
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2011
- Location
- Norway, Vardø
...What about the more mature 15 year olds..
"wink" me "wink"
"wink" me "wink"
I'm not kidding at all. I know what I did, and I didnt want to do it but it made more people realize how lame it is. And if you can afford LWC's now, you might as well just live in the wild. I have a good feeling theres gonna be a lot more theives in herocraft after this.
Dielan9999
Legacy Supporter 5
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2011
- Location
- Temple of Melonmancy
This is pretty much how I feel on the matter.
Over in Shin Kyoto, we are fortunate enough to have a majority of wealthy members who can afford LWCs. So when we do get theives, they don't get away with much. The worst that happened to me was Bazola(using either deadicated or crbowers account) re-arranged my cobble chest to spell out LOL, and he didn't even do it good like Carmeops used to. I was very dissapointed.
I agree that it is the town's fault, and perhaps we should all be as anal as Spire when it comes to recruiting. However I don't like how this encourages people to use alts. If they feel they have enough to gain, they can play the part well enough, and for long enough time to get into a town as anal as Spire is at recruiting.
ADaringEnchilada
Legacy Supporter 4
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2011
So, there have been of a lot of points brought up, and readdressed over and over, and then there have been completely useless posts irrelevant to the topic of this thread. Those irrelevant posts, and the posts that don't contribute in any way, or justify themselves, are pointless. Refrain from posts like this:
The second post essentially attacked me, and Orion in general, telling us to get over it and move along because we didn't lose that much, and then gave out a useless anecdote that did not support the argument, and actually weakened it, as it labels the author as an enemy.
The third post restating something said earlier, didn't give an suggestive alternatives, nada.
Those posts are disgraces, and it's a shame that some of you are posting them. It's a suggestion thread, stop creating posts that shoot down suggestions without offering your own.
On to the body of what I'd like to say. There appears to be a large amount of confusion and rumor popping up because of miscommunication. Here is exactly what I am saying:
In the case of the latest Orion theft, PhillyEagles (confirmed in several places by his brother) is tigobitties brother, and knew the politics of the server, and knew we were hostile. He had ill intent from the very start, which is in essence an alternative account used to grief Orion. If you could somehow disprove that what he did was griefing, have at it. I seriously doubt you could come up with a rational reason as to why he stole from Orion besides the aforementioned reason.
Also on topic is the use of LWCs in towns to protect items, which I am against people using this counter argument. The purpose of a town is to protect its member from all threats. That is why regions exist, it is also why sub-regions used to exist which made it so that there was little to no opportunity for intra-township theft. People who argue that this sort of dirty and abusive tactic is hardcore, obviously have not had enough experience on the server to understand it isn't about killing, stealing, and raping every living creature that moves. Just because you cannot use a dirty tactic to grief a town does not mean the server is soft. Entire towns used to be No-PvP, and even then stealing from towns and sanctum was illegal, end of story. As an aside, if anything, the server has become immensely more hardcore, with towns being susceptible to foreign theft, raiders that can kill anywhere in town except the townhall, and the rampant combat. The hardcore counter-argument is invalid, and should be dropped. However, even though townships haven't changed that much in ways of mechanics, we are still being told to buy an LWC, even though the whole town should act as an LWC. Just the same, it costs money, and weekly taxes, provides regions, and can protect chests. Having to use an LWC defeats the purpose of living in a town that limits you to a small plot and most likely asks for donations, or expects taxes from members. The only real benefit to being in a town is that raiders can't grief your home, yet a personal region could accomplish the same thing only more efficiently. We should not be obliged to spend money on LWCs when we live in a town who's sole purpose is to protect the citizens.
Also, I will no longer tolerate comments such as "get over it, you didn't lose that much." You do not know how much effort went into what was stolen, and your condescending and arrogant comments are not helpful. Furthermore, simply 'getting over it' will do nothing but encourage this behavior, simply giving up doesn't accomplish anything. If I didn't post this thread, people would still do it until someone else did. Trolls who think that they can use one-liners like
The first post was totally irrelevant, I don't even see why you would feel compelled to post this.
The second post essentially attacked me, and Orion in general, telling us to get over it and move along because we didn't lose that much, and then gave out a useless anecdote that did not support the argument, and actually weakened it, as it labels the author as an enemy.
The third post restating something said earlier, didn't give an suggestive alternatives, nada.
Those posts are disgraces, and it's a shame that some of you are posting them. It's a suggestion thread, stop creating posts that shoot down suggestions without offering your own.
On to the body of what I'd like to say. There appears to be a large amount of confusion and rumor popping up because of miscommunication. Here is exactly what I am saying:
- I believe the rules should be amended to prohibit and punish intra-township theft.
- I am in fact discriminating against the Tree Creeper group, but if you pay attention to the first page, you will see I have plenty of ground to say what I have, as the first page is littered with comments that are trying to start up a flame; it's humiliating.
- I say 'no' to using LWCs as protection in a township for three reasons:
- The township plugin is made superfluous when one must use an LWC, making it no better than a wilderness house in the sense that you are still at risk for theft. If you have not noticed already, but the township plugin is designed to give people protection and security. If that protection is invalidated by town thieves, and the only option left to protect your items is an LWC, you might as well live in the wild where you can have as big of a house as you like, no restrictions on anything, and still have equal if not greater protection from raiders, as you can remain completely neutral if you wish.
- Some players simply cannot afford an LWC. Some players do not like to mine, or do not have the patience to get the money required for it. It is not your place to judge them because they cannot get an LWC, nor can you say it is there own fault; it is the fault of the current township system that allows players access to other player's homes.
- You can only have so many LWCs. For a non-donor, there is a very strict limit, and only up to around 20 for a T6, and not everyone can donate money to the server. Again, it is not your right to judge them and accuse them because they cannot afford the luxuries that you can.
In the case of the latest Orion theft, PhillyEagles (confirmed in several places by his brother) is tigobitties brother, and knew the politics of the server, and knew we were hostile. He had ill intent from the very start, which is in essence an alternative account used to grief Orion. If you could somehow disprove that what he did was griefing, have at it. I seriously doubt you could come up with a rational reason as to why he stole from Orion besides the aforementioned reason.
Also on topic is the use of LWCs in towns to protect items, which I am against people using this counter argument. The purpose of a town is to protect its member from all threats. That is why regions exist, it is also why sub-regions used to exist which made it so that there was little to no opportunity for intra-township theft. People who argue that this sort of dirty and abusive tactic is hardcore, obviously have not had enough experience on the server to understand it isn't about killing, stealing, and raping every living creature that moves. Just because you cannot use a dirty tactic to grief a town does not mean the server is soft. Entire towns used to be No-PvP, and even then stealing from towns and sanctum was illegal, end of story. As an aside, if anything, the server has become immensely more hardcore, with towns being susceptible to foreign theft, raiders that can kill anywhere in town except the townhall, and the rampant combat. The hardcore counter-argument is invalid, and should be dropped. However, even though townships haven't changed that much in ways of mechanics, we are still being told to buy an LWC, even though the whole town should act as an LWC. Just the same, it costs money, and weekly taxes, provides regions, and can protect chests. Having to use an LWC defeats the purpose of living in a town that limits you to a small plot and most likely asks for donations, or expects taxes from members. The only real benefit to being in a town is that raiders can't grief your home, yet a personal region could accomplish the same thing only more efficiently. We should not be obliged to spend money on LWCs when we live in a town who's sole purpose is to protect the citizens.
Also, I will no longer tolerate comments such as "get over it, you didn't lose that much." You do not know how much effort went into what was stolen, and your condescending and arrogant comments are not helpful. Furthermore, simply 'getting over it' will do nothing but encourage this behavior, simply giving up doesn't accomplish anything. If I didn't post this thread, people would still do it until someone else did. Trolls who think that they can use one-liners like
to make me give up, or sorely mistaken. Actually, it encourages me to feed the troll, because he never wins until someone gives up. Taking no action is worse than feeding the troll, no matter what anyone says. If you know what you're talking about, and you know you are smarter than them, then you can stay arrogant, and you can fight them until they give up, and then you can win. Otherwise, you will never go anywhere in anything. Being submissive leads to a life of being somebody's bitch, and that's not a life I feel like living. If you cannot take this thread serious because I'm the author, because the problem is in a game, or any other reason, then you can grow-up or get out. If you are so incompetent and so immature that you cannot write any serious contribution, then you can leave, as you obviously aren't capable of being useful to this thread.
RedKhan
Soulsand
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2011
Enchilada, nice essay. But why wouldn't you just have you and your town use the Town Hall as a storage area?
EDIT: Also recognising that somebody is trolling (Deliberately arguing the case opposite to your own for no other reason than to drag a discussion on forever and wind you up) and continuing to reply is inane. Under no circumstances a "winning" action.
EDIT: Also recognising that somebody is trolling (Deliberately arguing the case opposite to your own for no other reason than to drag a discussion on forever and wind you up) and continuing to reply is inane. Under no circumstances a "winning" action.
Dam my laptop went into hibernation.
I was going to say that even if there was no physical contact from the original enemy. It's still an alternative account that they have influence over that that can use to steal, it's like me asking my brothers to do the same to other towns. Even if I did not physically control them if I order them around then it's still doing the same thing because it's one more account that they can control.
from what I seen, the account was created and the first thing it did was join HC and then to Orion.
-this seems that it was created to steal from us.
They have access to a new account that they can use for their own gain.
I also believe it's the same if you ask you friend to join a town and ask them to steal for you, it's bypassing the idea of towns for ones own gain.
While LWC is the ultimate form of protection, I felt it was redundant when you have regions.
I disagree that this was team work since it was the use of an "alternative account".
-I define it for this purpose as another account that there was no knowledge about and they have control over to use for their gain.
-while you might agree that it's fair I disagree on the basis that you need to buy/have an account that you can control/influence.
-if you use an existing account that people already know about, it obviously would not work be cause people already know about it. Thats why this tactic only works if it was new char to this server, using a friend accounts means you have influence over them. It's not much difference then you controlling the account yourself.
This is like Mule accounts from other games, not everyone has a second computer to use to do that.
While I agree it's team work in one case if they were told too since team work basically means a group of people working together to reach the same goal, the method used was the problem. But since it was the use of one account, this was like a sleeper agent, not team work.
I was going to say that even if there was no physical contact from the original enemy. It's still an alternative account that they have influence over that that can use to steal, it's like me asking my brothers to do the same to other towns. Even if I did not physically control them if I order them around then it's still doing the same thing because it's one more account that they can control.
from what I seen, the account was created and the first thing it did was join HC and then to Orion.
-this seems that it was created to steal from us.
They have access to a new account that they can use for their own gain.
I also believe it's the same if you ask you friend to join a town and ask them to steal for you, it's bypassing the idea of towns for ones own gain.
While LWC is the ultimate form of protection, I felt it was redundant when you have regions.
I disagree that this was team work since it was the use of an "alternative account".
-I define it for this purpose as another account that there was no knowledge about and they have control over to use for their gain.
-while you might agree that it's fair I disagree on the basis that you need to buy/have an account that you can control/influence.
-if you use an existing account that people already know about, it obviously would not work be cause people already know about it. Thats why this tactic only works if it was new char to this server, using a friend accounts means you have influence over them. It's not much difference then you controlling the account yourself.
This is like Mule accounts from other games, not everyone has a second computer to use to do that.
While I agree it's team work in one case if they were told too since team work basically means a group of people working together to reach the same goal, the method used was the problem. But since it was the use of one account, this was like a sleeper agent, not team work.
Dielan9999
Legacy Supporter 5
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2011
- Location
- Temple of Melonmancy
I don't mean to direct you to another topic, but as you all probably read in that other topic, Seratt says it's legal, Kainzo and Aph said it's not. Yet they are both right. So we can expect a clarification of the rules in due time. We can also expect serious LWC discounts for mayors. So you can provide LWCs to your trusted town members at your own expense(and a Light expense at that).
I get a discount for making LWCs as a T3 donor, so if my townsmen are willing to work with me, I usually buy them an LWC.
With mayorship discounts(even though Ironee is now mayor of SK) we can all get the benefits of LWCs to our townsmen more easily like I once did. Probably cheaper than I did in the first place.
Think of the possibilities everyone, you could charge your members the mayor fee for LWC, give them for free to members who have been around for a long time, or meet halfway, or make them beg! It makes me excited. Although I don't see the stealing from your own town rule going away soon, I suggest to you all that you become very anal in your recruiting, even if just for the time being until a new ruling is reached. This thief drama can be avoided if you try hard enough. Your citizen base will just grow more slowly. I think it's worth it.
I get a discount for making LWCs as a T3 donor, so if my townsmen are willing to work with me, I usually buy them an LWC.
With mayorship discounts(even though Ironee is now mayor of SK) we can all get the benefits of LWCs to our townsmen more easily like I once did. Probably cheaper than I did in the first place.
Think of the possibilities everyone, you could charge your members the mayor fee for LWC, give them for free to members who have been around for a long time, or meet halfway, or make them beg! It makes me excited. Although I don't see the stealing from your own town rule going away soon, I suggest to you all that you become very anal in your recruiting, even if just for the time being until a new ruling is reached. This thief drama can be avoided if you try hard enough. Your citizen base will just grow more slowly. I think it's worth it.
milkmeister
Legacy Supporter 6
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2011
I know that having an alt. account and using that to join a town and steal from it is illegal, because alt. accounts are illegal in general. But is there some sort of consensus yet between @Kainzo @Seratt and @Apherdite about doing it with your primary, or getting a friend to do it? Some mods are saying it is illegal, while Seratt said it is legal. Seratt also says he reformatted the rules to clarify about chest looting, but I still see nothing addressing this major issue.
Town Specific Rules
3 Town Specific Rules
3.1 Maliciously destroying blocks is illegal.
3.2 Looting chests is legal.
3.2.1 Looting chests inside townhalls is legal.
3.3 Any attempt to join a town for malicious purposes is strictly prohibited.
3.4 Town members may remove unwanted intruders from townhalls.
seems this translation is now all messed up.
Dielan9999
Legacy Supporter 5
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2011
- Location
- Temple of Melonmancy
It would appear that you could argue that a town thief had joined for malicious purposes. So if your case is strong, you can deter town thieves.
What happened to @GreekCrackShot is unfortunate, I don't think the new rule coves what happened to him. But other than that, 99% of town theft today is joining the town with malicious purpose. So I think this will put a stop to stealing from your own town!
What happened to @GreekCrackShot is unfortunate, I don't think the new rule coves what happened to him. But other than that, 99% of town theft today is joining the town with malicious purpose. So I think this will put a stop to stealing from your own town!
GreekCrackShot
Legacy Supporter 7
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2011
- Location
- New York
too bad these rules come into play too late. 
probably wouldnt have a much different outcome unfortunately.
probably wouldnt have a much different outcome unfortunately.well seems the new translation of the rule is no longer covering what I pointed out. I am going to assume that town thieves are legal, except they just cant destroy the block for malicious purposes. which I see as "you cant break that block of dirt on the chest. to get to that chest" but I dunno, since aph define it as
- Stealing any placed blocks from a town is illegal.
Dielan9999
Legacy Supporter 5
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2011
- Location
- Temple of Melonmancy
I think this can be interpreted as town thieving is legal, but griefing is not. This isn't because it should be allowed, but because putting a block of dirt on top of a chest simply isn't enough. Use hidden chest rooms and lwcs!
GreekCrackShot
Legacy Supporter 7
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2011
- Location
- New York
Lwc's are so costly when trying to expand towns, I've used my free ones, and bought 3-4 more. I guess this can be solved with citizens paying a mayor for a cheap lwc, but 16 lwc's may not be enough.