Suggestion Town Limit, Audit and Taxes - Solutions to a Growing Problem?

[jbird112233]

But we still run into the problem I pointed out - how do we choose what towns are destroyed and what towns are kept?

Personally, I think we should stop allowing new towns to form as soon as possible. Once we do that, then we can allow a combination of taxes and citizen audits to whittle down the total number of towns. If that doesn't decrease the amount as much as we thought it would, then we can increase the requirements for a Hamlet to be considered a Hamlet. If those requirements aren't met within a certain time period, your regions are removed.

All halmets destroyed. Unless they hit township before the deadline.

Or taxes get spiked.

Or an all out war last town standing wins muhahahahaha

 

[Nalestom]

In my opinion, keep Dragonguard the same as it is now. Wait till a new map wipe for all these changes you all want, if they were to change all this there would be too many complaints as for right now. But a new map means new changes and that would be a good time to implement them. So in my opinion try to be patient because they have no plans for a map wipe. We should just wait and see what they do then.

From what I've heard, they don't plan on wiping this map. Instead, they'll just expand it and continue to add new worlds like Warshard to keep a steady flow of resources in the universe.

@jbird112233, a spike in taxes would hurt the entire playerbase instead of rooting out and unregioning inactive towns.

However, forcing all Hamlets to upgrade and unregioning those that fail to meet the deadline seems like a good way to get rid of them. The few players who control the inactive Hamlets will most likely choose to abandon their village as opposed to spend a bunch of time gathering resources and money to upgrade it.

 

[iHazBryn]

Its way to easy to make a town and keep it active, what happened when towns had to band together to pull of thier tax payment.

Now one person can mine for 30 mins and pay taxes for 2 weeks.

And honestly if there isn't a map wipe soon the server will die even more.

DG sucked dick imo. Altough I did quit for 5 months.

But is there one big thing that happened that you will never forget from DG? Like Shiroku or Airbuses shop?

 

[HolyRane]

Its way to easy to make a town and keep it active, what happened when towns had to band together to pull of thier tax payment.

Now one person can mine for 30 mins and pay taxes for 2 weeks.

And honestly if there isn't a map wipe soon the server will die even more.

DG sucked dick imo. Altough I did quit for 5 months.

But is there one big thing that happened that you will never forget from DG? Like Shiroku or Airbuses shop?

Well exactly, map wipes keep the server active, although this map is a lot more active than previous maps.

DG sucks to you, because you weren't here for the start of it and now its just a lame, built up map. DG is fun and enjoyable just as much as the others, (first map is always "best").

I do agree with the last statement, there really hasn't been any MAJOR conflicts this map.... Not ONE sadly . Too bad the communist collective didn't stay around longer....

 

[iHazBryn]

Well exactly, map wipes keep the server active, although this map is a lot more active than previous maps.

DG sucks to you, because you weren't here for the start of it and now its just a lame, built up map. DG is fun and enjoyable just as much as the others, (first map is always "best").

I do agree with the last statement, there really hasn't been any MAJOR conflicts this map.... Not ONE sadly . Too bad the communist collective didn't stay around longer....

I was on the server for the first month, That was fun. Then everything got dumb.

Also I'm saying the actual physical map sucks. The towns, and the generation of the map.

Also, this map was not anywhere as active as Zeal. For the first 3 months of zeal you had to be a donor to even get onto the server, it was capped at 200 and was full 24/7. Then it stayed at 140+ for the entire map, until the wipe was announced.

 

[HolyRane]

I was on the server for the first month, That was fun. Then everything got dumb.

Also I'm saying the actual physical map sucks. The towns, and the generation of the map.

Also, this map was not anywhere as active as Zeal. For the first 3 months of zeal you had to be a donor to even get onto the server, it was capped at 200 and was full 24/7. Then it stayed at 140+ for the entire map, until the wipe was announced.

No. Zeal was capped at 84 at the start, and like 120 later. Zeal didn't hit 200..... I don't think at least.

 

[ThatAintFalco]

It hit in on the double exp celebration for #1 on minesaurous. Other than that, the average was like 120-140. A lot bigger than DG's average of 80

 

[iHazBryn]

No. Zeal was capped at 84 at the start, and like 120 later. Zeal didn't hit 200..... I don't think at least.

My memory might be failing but i'm pretty sure that the cap went up to 200 within the first few days.

 

[MajorasMask]

I've just read through the thread, and it's good to see many people agree with me! Just a reminder, please don't adjust this thread to discuss things such as noble plots, the size of regions, the economics of the server, ect ect (you who know you are). These sorts of discussions arn't needed, they belong elsewhere. Thanks.

I'll try and reply to those that had questions, ect:

@Nalestom If this system were to be put into play now, then you'd keep only the townships with enough members, from the citizen audit, and enough tax paid, from tax days. I say this'll leave us with around 10-20 townships left, the inactive ones removed. Any left which don't fit the limit could be left (in the idea they might die out), or they could be plucked one by one, starting from Hamlets then up.

Obviously, this will be difficult, for instance, do you remove a hamlet with 60 members or a town with 18 members?

Maybe there could be a ''contest'' to allow townies to decorate, populate and generally make their town better before inspection of an admin. The top 15 would be granted their regions, while the others have their region removed?

@c12095 I couldn't say it better myself, ''Strength in numbers is a huge factor to this game, and at this point, people are too alone to do anything''. As for your suggestion of box/ugly wall towns, I feel that they'll cease to exist in this kind of system. With more people within a town, then people are more likely to go out and fight raiders (none of this 5 vs 1 shit which we see now). With more builders within a town, they can then get creative and build better looking structures.

There need not be a rule to restrict people in building, I feel that it'll come naturally in this system (for instance, Lorien had defences and looked good outside when it was more active, and America now is the same; notice how both happened when the township had many members? ).

@MaskedHollow A map wipe won't happen anytime soon. Let's not discuss it. This sort of change is needed sooner, not later, because it helps the community grow without the need of any plug-ins, skills, or modification to the game's code.

@HolyRane I'm glad to see you understand what i'm trying to say! Yes, towns need to be limited in numbers, the whole community is too spread out at the moment. Taxes should be enforced, those towns which have gone without them need to be removed. I hear you when you talk about the learning curve, too many players are working on their own! We got TONS of new members into the community when towns were huge, many still here today, and we taught them the ropes, ect. Sometimes, signs at the spawn arn't enough!

@iHazBryn I'm starting to think that you have not read the post, please check what i've said right at the top of this reply. You seem to be complaining more than you are agreeing/contributing to the solution.

 

[iHazBryn]

All my suggestions have stuff to do with you "issue list".

- Remove Hamlets, All they do is make it easier for people to make an ugly ass town.
Easier to make towns, Discourages pvp, and nice buildings.

- Have a town limit. As you've said.
You said it.

- Make a list of Aesthetic rules about townships, IE no sky high walls, No boxes, no Ugly glass domes. An admin must verify to and extent that your town passes these rules.
Making towns look nicer.

- Lower the price that gold is bought at the DHX. This will make it a lot harder for 4-5 people to make a town, and force people to work together more.
Making it harder to create towns, and buy DG plots, causing people to group together in common towns. making the community stronger.

- Dis-allow town sales. You shouldn't be able to sell a dieing town, The town should just die.
Making towns more of a burden, therefore causing people to have to group together to create towns.

- Remove the regions on roads. Make them be the center of life on HC again.
Increases PVP.

- Remove the Herogates. They make travel way too easy, and make conflicts very one sided.
Increasing PVP/community through road shops

- Enforce Taxes and active player counts. Make the taxes higher, and the active players back to 10 or even to 15.
Community making.

- Put GYs along the roads, as well as in the wilds.
Just a general suggestion to make the roads more of a center place IE make more pvp/war.

- have WAY less spawn plots up for sale. They should be a dime a dozen, not a safe zone for half the server.
Make people join towns, more community.

I fail to see where I went offtopic. Please, enlighten me.

 

[MajorasMask]

All my suggestions have stuff to do with you "issue list".

- Remove Hamlets, All they do is make it easier for people to make an ugly ass town.
Easier to make towns, Discourages pvp, and nice buildings.

- Have a town limit. As you've said.
You said it.

- Make a list of Aesthetic rules about townships, IE no sky high walls, No boxes, no Ugly glass domes. An admin must verify to and extent that your town passes these rules.
Making towns look nicer.

- Lower the price that gold is bought at the DHX. This will make it a lot harder for 4-5 people to make a town, and force people to work together more.
Making it harder to create towns, and buy DG plots, causing people to group together in common towns. making the community stronger.

- Dis-allow town sales. You shouldn't be able to sell a dieing town, The town should just die.
Making towns more of a burden, therefore causing people to have to group together to create towns.

- Remove the regions on roads. Make them be the center of life on HC again.
Increases PVP.

- Remove the Herogates. They make travel way too easy, and make conflicts very one sided.
Increasing PVP/community through road shops

- Enforce Taxes and active player counts. Make the taxes higher, and the active players back to 10 or even to 15.

Community making.

- Put GYs along the roads, as well as in the wilds.
Just a general suggestion to make the roads more of a center place IE make more pvp/war.

- have WAY less spawn plots up for sale. They should be a dime a dozen, not a safe zone for half the server.
Make people join towns, more community.

I fail to see where I went offtopic.

*Sigh* If you must, i'll reply to each. But don't expect this conversation to go much further, let's remind ourselves to stay on topic.

Your suggestions are too extreme. They are. Sorry, but they concern nothing but the difficulty of the server.

- Hamlets are 10k with 100c tax each week. This is exactly what ''towns'' were in Zeal, but with a greater cost. Hamlets arn't the problem. Removing all Hamlets now would be an insane loss of money for players, some Hamlets are still active.

- If you read what I said above, building restrictions wouldn't need to be made. Lorien looked good when it had tons of members, and so does America now (oh yeah - it has tons of members too!). They have a mix of builders and PvPers. The system I suggest would eliminate the need for a wall, ect, allowing people to be more creative.

- This is an economic issue. Gold has been 8c-9c for ages now, I think in Zeal too. ''New Towns'' wouldn't be created under this system, the ones, active enough (and big enough), already would fit into the 10-15 limit. Thus, no new ones would be created = no need to change prices. As for Dragongarde Plots, that has nothing to do with townships. They were around both in Sanctum and Zeal. Maybe at different release points, but they were there.

- Again, town sales, an economic issue. But, I personally agree. Towns should die if people arn't willing to maintain them. This is something which could be discussed, still, on another thread.

- Regions on roads have nothing to do with townships. They boost PvP. Much like other ''Boost PvP'' suggestions, this'll get nowhere if we keep discussing it. This is also irrelevant to the thread topic.

- Herogates = Again, nothing to do with township activity, citizen lists or taxes. Take it to another thread.

- Enforce taxes and player counts, yes. Increase tax, no, it is fine how it is. Increasing tax leads to nobody's benefit. It puts more pressure on mayors, and wouldn't get rid of inactive towns. Plus, it is extreme; let's say we double tax, that's over 1k which Capitals have to pay each week. This money should go to developing kingdoms or buying rare blocks/items for the town, not tax. Increase player counts, hmm, maybe. I personally feel that 5 active members isn't enough for a hamlet, it should be 10, the number that you need to make it. This isn't anything significant overall, player audit's havn't been re-introduced yet.

- The suggestion about graveyards, it has nothing to do with townships. Take it elsewhere.

- You want less spawn plots? And how are you going to do that? Just destroy the current ones? No, that wouldn't work. People put effort into buying them. This suggestion would go only for a new map. MY suggestion has nothing to do with a map wipe, or a new map in general. Sorry, but take this suggestion elsewhere.

I'll say it again: Noble plot removal, increasing taxes, removal of herogates, the adjustment of the economy, all these things are just pointless to bring up in this thread. They mean nothing to the original post. Please do not talk about them, bring up a discussion about it elsewhere, not on this thread, to talk about them.

 

[iHazBryn]

*Sigh* If you must, i'll reply to each. But don't expect this conversation to go much further, let's remind ourselves to stay on topic.

Your suggestions are too extreme. They are. Sorry, but they concern nothing but the difficulty of the server.

- Hamlets are 10k with 100c tax each week. This is exactly what ''towns'' were in Zeal, but with a greater cost. Hamlets arn't the problem. Removing all Hamlets now would be an insane loss of money for players, some Hamlets are still active.

- If you read what I said above, building restrictions wouldn't need to be made. Lorien looked good when it had tons of members, and so does America now (oh yeah - it has tons of members too!). They have a mix of builders and PvPers. The system I suggest would eliminate the need for a wall, ect, allowing people to be more creative.

- This is an economic issue. Gold has been 8c-9c for ages now, I think in Zeal too. ''New Towns'' wouldn't be created under this system, the ones, active enough (and big enough), already would fit into the 10-15 limit. Thus, no new ones would be created = no need to change prices. As for Dragongarde Plots, that has nothing to do with townships. They were around both in Sanctum and Zeal. Maybe at different release points, but they were there.

- Again, town sales, an economic issue. But, I personally agree. Towns should die if people arn't willing to maintain them. This is something which could be discussed, still, on another thread.

- Regions on roads have nothing to do with townships. They boost PvP. Much like other ''Boost PvP'' suggestions, this'll get nowhere if we keep discussing it. This is also irrelevant to the thread topic.

- Herogates = Again, nothing to do with township activity, citizen lists or taxes. Take it to another thread.

- Enforce taxes and player counts, yes. Increase tax, no, it is fine how it is. Increasing tax leads to nobody's benefit. It puts more pressure on mayors, and wouldn't get rid of inactive towns. Plus, it is extreme; let's say we double tax, that's over 1k which Capitals have to pay each week. This money should go to developing kingdoms or buying rare blocks/items for the town, not tax. Increase player counts, hmm, maybe. I personally feel that 5 active members isn't enough for a hamlet, it should be 10, the number that you need to make it. This isn't anything significant overall, player audit's havn't been re-introduced yet.

- The suggestion about graveyards, it has nothing to do with townships. Take it elsewhere.

- You want less spawn plots? And how are you going to do that? Just destroy the current ones? No, that wouldn't work. People put effort into buying them. This suggestion would go only for a new map. MY suggestion has nothing to do with a map wipe, or a new map in general. Sorry, but take this suggestion elsewhere.

I'll say it again: Noble plot removal, increasing taxes, removal of herogates, the adjustment of the economy, all these things are just pointless to bring up in this thread. They mean nothing to the original post. Please do not talk about them, bring up a discussion about it elsewhere, not on this thread, to talk about them.

I thought it was obvious that None of this could be implemented on this map.

And don't say the roads thing is offtopic when you have in your post "increasing war/pvp" under issue. That's what my suggestion is about.

The tax suggestion goes along with the other ones of, "make things harder to achive by oneself, forcing people to come together as a COMMUNITY. Isn't that what this is all about?

Imo opinion this map is FAR past fixing. My suggestions are what I think will "solve" your "issues" if implemented in the future.

Aout the only things you can do for this map is lower the town cap, and go harder on taxes and cit counts.

Also: If a Town cap is added, it should be on the lower end of 10-15. Right now if a 20 town cap was added, everyone would just stick withe the 10 guys they know. 20 is way to high for a sever with 80 active players.

Also, make the minumum amout of members 15, and the taxes at least 250 c.

In sanctum, being the mayor of a known town gave you renown and prestige. Now anyone and their mom can be a mayor.

For example, right now, Erebos owns, or is about to own, 5 hamlets. To me that's a bit ridiculous eh?

 

[iHazBryn]

Majoras just because you don't like and Idea doesn't mean you have to shoot it down. That's an extremly inside the box way of thinking, not to mention somewhat immature.

My original post got 7 positive votes, so maybe instead of saying, "my thread, your wrong" we could work together AS A COMMUNITY, to come up with ideas together, compromise.

As far as I'm seeing it your part of this closed minded problem.

 

[MajorasMask]

-Snip-

No, the map isn't far past fixing. That attitude will get nowhere. What do you want to do, just say ''yeah, we'll let the community die out, everything will be better upon a map wipe''? No. There is NO need for a map wipe at the moment.

You're suggestions suit a map wipe, mine don't. See the difference? My suggestion involves no plug-ins, no adjustment of skills, no extreme modification of the rules or how the server structure/facilities work. If you want to suggest things for a future map, my all means do so, but it is pointless. Infact, take it to another thread if you're gonna do that. We won't be getting a new map anytime soon, so please keep it away from this topic/thread.

 

[MajorasMask]

-Snip-

You fail to realise that this thread isn't about a future map. I'd be happy to discuss something like that elsewhere, but not here.

 

[iHazBryn]

You fail to realise that this thread isn't about a future map. I'd be happy to discuss something like that elsewhere, but not here.

So how do you suggest we get rid of the 65 cobble empty cobble boxes that we call "towns".

How do you suggest we bring together 100 players into a community when most people won't even have a frienly word with each other.

How do you suggest we fix that fact that pvp is a border humping region hiding bullshit fest.

You could fix it this map, but it would be a mess, and by the time you fixed it the server will be either A: Dead or B: about to have a map wipe anyways.

Its not as simple as "breaking it down into 20 towns" how would the admins choose,there is no fair way of doing it. Probably 45+ of those towns have at least 5 members that are on activly. You can't just take away regions from them.

 

[jbird112233]

No, the map isn't far past fixing.

IMO this map is beyond screwed ima just ride it out, but what ihazbryn is suggesting is for next map which any major changes could take place. Also IMO @iHazBryn has great suggestions and ideas I would love to see added to herocraft. His ideas are good and he should feel that way to.

 

[MajorasMask]

So how do you suggest we get rid of the 65 cobble empty cobble boxes that we call "towns".

How do you suggest we bring together 100 players into a community when most people won't even have a frienly word with each other.

How do you suggest we fix that fact that pvp is a border humping region hiding bullshit fest.

You could fix it this map, but it would be a mess, and by the time you fixed it the server will be either A: Dead or B: about to have a map wipe anyways.

Its not as simple as "breaking it down into 20 towns" how would the admins choose,there is no fair way of doing it. Probably 45+ of those towns have at least 5 members that are on activly. You can't just take away regions from them.

You're asking questions that your suggestions didn't even fix. Just gonna mention that.

- Cobble Boxes = They get left, don't they? That happened in Zeal with inactive towns. Infact, I think there were more back then. Also, I don't see 65 boxes like that on this map. In addition, i've already discussed about ''box-active'' towns.

- A town with 100 members? Or, what? To get more people into townships, you offer them very little choice on where to go, I.E, you have very few townships. I'm starting to feel fully confident that you didn't even read/undertstand my main post. Look at the example that I made of Lorien and the CC, both two of the very few communities at the start of the map, but were very large in member numbers.

- Border humping has nothing to do with townships. Plus, with larger groups of players, I wouldn't say border humping is something that would happen much. Remember yesterday? When there was a 30-45 Vs 10-15 player match at Solitude? That's what I would expect in the future, with more members within towns, PvP would be a lot bigger too.

- Introducing a town limit, citizen audit and regular tax wouldn't take a long time, there would be no ''mess''. Like I said before, it doesn't require mods, plug-ins, an extreme change in rules, ect ect. Infact, it is more about enforcing rules than changing how the server works.

- Most towns, if they had a proper citizen audit and tax checking, would get removed due to inactivity. Any left that fit over the 10-15 limit would either be left, with the belief that they'll eventually die out, or, as i've already said, there could be a contest to determine which towns remain, featuring the least active towns.

@jbird112233 I like some of IHaz's ideas too, but I feel that, because they are best implicated into another map, there is no use discussing them here. A discussion elsewhere, sure! I'd love to talk about it!

 

[c12095]

@MajorasMask

I like that your getting the ideas flowing here Majoras, but Bryn does have some legitimate points. Just because they don't fit perfectly into this thread is no reason to shoot them down or tell him to make another thread. The point of this thread is to gather suggestions, there should be no issue with suggestions that will take place in the future, they are all about the same subject because they all will be affected if these changes happen. The only difference is the time when they take place.

 

[MajorasMask]

@MajorasMask

I like that your getting the ideas flowing here Majoras, but Bryn does have some legitimate points. Just because they don't fit perfectly into this thread is no reason to shoot them down or tell him to make another thread. The point of this thread is to gather suggestions, there should be no issue with suggestions that will take place in the future, they are all about the same subject because they all will be affected if these changes happen. The only difference is the time when they take place.

My main concern with talking about future maps, ect, is that the suggestions will mean nothing. They arn't something to be implimented now, and they'll probably just be forgotten. Plus, discussing a new map is likely to create arguements, and Kainzo, as i've been told, locks threads that demand new maps.

I feel that we should do this in 'baby' steps. First, I feel that we should reintroduce audits and taxes, also a strict town limit. THEN we can focus on what IHaz has suggested. If we continue to focus on what he has said, then we'll move far too distant from the original point.