Suggestion TNT should not destroy regioned blocks

[spartanman118]

This wouldn't be a problem if people wouldn't make giant glass boxes for towns..

 

[kevinlive]

I just love breaking obsidian to get to my chests man

Wild perlmutter appears with no tools, obidian on his tool chest. Starts whacking at the obsidian for 20 minutes.

 

[malmenca]

TNT should fuck up everything. Way too many towns are impenetrable.

 

[spartanman118]

TNT should fuck up everything. Way too many towns are impenetrable.

Thank you!!!

 

[MajorasMask]

I've come up with a list of PROS and CONS. Cause' I felt it would help better in this conversation:

*Miners using TNT to break regioned blocks for a short period of time, to have them replaced while later:

Pros:

- Allows people to get past regioned walls, allowing more PvP on the server.
- It gives miners more use, for them to be wanted more by towns and used a lot more frequently on the server.
- It boosts the economy for gunpowder and sand. Possibly blocks resistant to TNT, like obsidian.
- It encourages people to get LWCs, also becoming donors to get more LWCs.
- It encourages people to put effort into town defences, such as specific wall designs and underground layers.
- The encouragement of towns to expand, making their regions bigger, thus preventing TNT-access.
- It allows the server to become more ''hardcore''.

Cons:

- A ''short period of time'' is currently, believed to be, a bit too long (around 30 seconds, which I personally feel is a little too long).
- People creating TNT cannons might not remove them, annoying town citizens that have to petition or clean up their mess.
- People pay a lot of money for regioned protection, whereas miners TNT goes right past that, if the skill is used correctly.
- Allows an insane disadvantage to towns whos citizens are offline during the TNT raid, far more than what Wizards and Dragoons can do.
- Might influence many to make giant walls of obsidian and water, which will make many towns ugly (less variety in town appearence).
- As EtKenn said, an extreme con (unlikely to happen by still possible) would be the lack of townships, whereas people say ''fuck it, i'm not making one''. We could see plenty of townships dropping dead from this, not only the good/neutral ones, but also the evil ones too. This could lead to rage quitting and people leaving HC.



Personal Solution:

I honestly feel that TNT should be added. BUT, a regeneration time of around 30 seconds (which I recall being what was originally suggested/planned) for the blocks is a little OP. Maybe a time from 10-5 seconds (which could alter depending on a miners level) would work better.

Also, a cooldown on TNT placement would be good, to prevent people making a wall of TNT then *BOOM* mass TNT explosion and also some lag (although I presume lag would be dealt with and removed by the coders using their sexy coding/plug-in skills).

I feel TNT would be a great addition to the server, giving miners more use and also allowing more intense raids. But, as i've stated above, specific attributes of the TNT should be altered to prevent miners becoming TOO useful on raids!

 

[malmenca]

*Miners using TNT to break regioned blocks for a short period of time, to have them replaced while later:

If thats the case, then whats the problem? Quit being whiny bitches and fend off invaders. It's not like griefing is now allowed or something.

Pros:

- Allows people to get past regioned walls, allowing more PvP on the server.
- It gives miners more use, for them to be wanted more by towns and used a lot more frequently on the server.
- It boosts the economy for gunpowder and sand. Possibly blocks resistant to TNT, like obsidian.
- It encourages people to get LWCs, also becoming donors to get more LWCs.
- It encourages people to put effort into town defences, such as specific wall designs and underground layers.
- The encouragement of towns to expand, making their regions bigger, thus preventing TNT-access.
- It allows the server to become more ''hardcore''.

Cons:

- A ''short period of time'' is currently, believed to be, a bit too long (around 30 seconds, which I personally feel is a little too long). IMO 30 seconds is reasonable. But if u look at it from another angle, maybe making it 10 minutes would be better. If you blow a hole into a wall you shouldn't be pressed for time to get into it. If the defenders are present, they could easily prevent u from getting into the area for 30 seconds. But on the other hand if its 10 minutes, repeated tnt cannon fire could devestate town buildings and make them easy raid material.
- People creating TNT cannons might not remove them, annoying town citizens that have to petition or clean up their mess. Solution: Make TNT cannons=1x1 pillars.
- People pay a lot of money for regioned protection, whereas miners TNT goes right past that, if the skill is used correctly. People do pay a lot of money for regions, but they utilize these regions as they were not intended to be used. People create Shoebox towns and vaults that are impossible to be touched. Regions are, I think, not meant to be 100% protection. After all HC 'tis a hardcore server.
- Allows an insane disadvantage to towns whos citizens are offline during the TNT raid, far more than what Wizards and Dragoons can do. I don't think there is much to be done about this, with or without tnt, citizens who are offline are disadvantaged.
- Might influence many to make giant walls of obsidian and water, which will make many towns ugly (less variety in town appearence). One can adjust the values of the blast resistance of blocks, now I don't know if it is serverside, or requires a mod or whatever, but it is possible to have tnt break obsidian through water and any other normally unbreakable blocks.
- As EtKenn said, an extreme con (unlikely to happen by still possible) would be the lack of townships, whereas people say ''fuck it, i'm not making one''. We could see plenty of townships dropping dead from this, not only the good/neutral ones, but also the evil ones too. This could lead to rage quitting and people leaving HC. It's too late to be concerned with keeping long-term members. FUUCK IT WE'LL DO IT LIVE.

 

[MajorasMask]

@malmenca *Sigh* This thread is about making TNT less OP and more reasonable. What you are saying is basically;

''TNT isn't OP and should be more powerful, allowing raiders to get more time, more items, because this is a hardocre server''.

Honestly, your side of the story comes from PvPers only. In particuler, the ones that have actually quit the server because they don't get their daily dose of extreme PvP (surprisingly, the PvP which benefits them only). Which sucks, it really does. I like to discuss PvP issues with people, but when it comes to groups and members such as yourself; it usually goes nowhere. Your idea of a ''PvP/Hardcore'' server, is basically whereas YOU get all the loot and everyone suffers. This isn't what PvP is about. It is about things being fair. Your suggestion of a ''10 minute'' block regeneration isn't fair, infact, it could be used to completely wipe out a town. The same can be said with your other ''suggestions''.

I've looked at both sides of the arguement. The constant ''this is a hardcore server'' is just useless in this arguement, infact, with many. Using that form of thinking, I could say ''Ok, this is a hardcore server, so let's have wizards smash through walls 3 block-thick walls, legit, with their blinks, and dragoons being able to jump through glass, and theives instantly steal from chests covered up''. In all three cases, i've taken three basic methods of raiding/steal, and have amplified them to make them ''hardcore'', essecially helping those (such as yourself) who consistantly complain about a ''lack of PvP''.

This leads to what someone else said earlier;

If you constantly complain and bring up the idea that the server is ''hardcore'', why not just remove regions, LWCs, skills and levels being saved, ect? Why not have it that, whenever you log into the server, you start off a Level 0, then you have to work your way up? THAT is what I feel, you feel, ''hardcore'' is. Don't like these ideas? Well, they are stupid. Sure, regions may protect people; but they come at a cost. They offer security. If there was no security, nothing would happen. Every chest would be looted, every sword would be lost, nobody would PvP because they DON'T have the resources.

 

[EvilThor]

@malmenca *Sigh* This thread is about making TNT less OP and more reasonable. What you are saying is basically;

''TNT isn't OP and should be more powerful, allowing raiders to get more time, more items, because this is a hardocre server''.

Honestly, your side of the story comes from PvPers only. In particuler, the ones that have actually quit the server because they don't get their daily dose of extreme PvP (surprisingly, the PvP which benefits them only). Which sucks, it really does. I like to discuss PvP issues with people, but when it comes to groups and members such as yourself; it usually goes nowhere. Your idea of a ''PvP/Hardcore'' server, is basically whereas YOU get all the loot and everyone suffers. This isn't what PvP is about. It is about things being fair. Your suggestion of a ''10 minute'' block regeneration isn't fair, infact, it could be used to completely wipe out a town. The same can be said with your other ''suggestions''.

I've looked at both sides of the arguement. The constant ''this is a hardcore server'' is just useless in this arguement, infact, with many. Using that form of thinking, I could say ''Ok, this is a hardcore server, so let's have wizards smash through walls 3 block-thick walls, legit, with their blinks, and dragoons being able to jump through glass, and theives instantly steal from chests covered up''. In all three cases, i've taken three basic methods of raiding/steal, and have amplified them to make them ''hardcore'', essecially helping those (such as yourself) who consistantly complain about a ''lack of PvP''.

This leads to what someone else said earlier;

If you constantly complain and bring up the idea that the server is ''hardcore'', why not just remove regions, LWCs, skills and levels being saved, ect? Why not have it that, whenever you log into the server, you start off a Level 0, then you have to work your way up? THAT is what I feel, you feel, ''hardcore'' is. Don't like these ideas? Well, they are stupid. Sure, regions may protect people; but they come at a cost. They offer security. If there was no security, nothing would happen. Every chest would be looted, every sword would be lost, nobody would PvP because they DON'T have the resources.

you know a thing that would be really hardcore?

hahahaha

Spoiler

what about removing chests?

 

[MajorasMask]

you know a thing that would be really hardcore?

hahahaha

Spoiler

what about removing chests?

Spoiler

Mind = Blown!

THIS GUY!

 

[malmenca]

I don't quite think you understand the pros and cons of longer v shorter times b4 blocks respawn. But frankly it dont matter

 

[Fjordsen]

you know a thing that would be really hardcore?

hahahaha

Spoiler

what about removing chests?

WIN!

Hardcore: Log in, pvp inside spawn, die instantly, die 2 more times, banned for 2 weeks.

 

[Keache]

I hear TNT (allegedly being given to miners) is going to temporarily destroy regioned blocks. The point of this being to end people sitting outside others walls and insulting each other, or people just hiding inside. As said by Etkenn ,



This is completely bullshit (excuse my french) if this is real and never should be put in the game. If it is, why not save everyones time and just de-region everything.

Then make your towns more interesting? Cobblestone boxes are just asking to be broken into. I also hear that tnt and water helps

 

[Galaxial]

@malmenca *Sigh* This thread is about making TNT less OP and more reasonable. What you are saying is basically;

''TNT isn't OP and should be more powerful, allowing raiders to get more time, more items, because this is a hardocre server''.

Honestly, your side of the story comes from PvPers only. In particuler, the ones that have actually quit the server because they don't get their daily dose of extreme PvP (surprisingly, the PvP which benefits them only). Which sucks, it really does. I like to discuss PvP issues with people, but when it comes to groups and members such as yourself; it usually goes nowhere. Your idea of a ''PvP/Hardcore'' server, is basically whereas YOU get all the loot and everyone suffers. This isn't what PvP is about. It is about things being fair. Your suggestion of a ''10 minute'' block regeneration isn't fair, infact, it could be used to completely wipe out a town. The same can be said with your other ''suggestions''.

I've looked at both sides of the arguement. The constant ''this is a hardcore server'' is just useless in this arguement, infact, with many. Using that form of thinking, I could say ''Ok, this is a hardcore server, so let's have wizards smash through walls 3 block-thick walls, legit, with their blinks, and dragoons being able to jump through glass, and theives instantly steal from chests covered up''. In all three cases, i've taken three basic methods of raiding/steal, and have amplified them to make them ''hardcore'', essecially helping those (such as yourself) who consistantly complain about a ''lack of PvP''.

This leads to what someone else said earlier;

If you constantly complain and bring up the idea that the server is ''hardcore'', why not just remove regions, LWCs, skills and levels being saved, ect? Why not have it that, whenever you log into the server, you start off a Level 0, then you have to work your way up? THAT is what I feel, you feel, ''hardcore'' is. Don't like these ideas? Well, they are stupid. Sure, regions may protect people; but they come at a cost. They offer security. If there was no security, nothing would happen. Every chest would be looted, every sword would be lost, nobody would PvP because they DON'T have the resources.

10000000000% AGREED!

 

[Kwong050]

10000000000% AGREED!

that's not enough

 

[Nubberr]

@malmenca *Sigh* This thread is about making TNT less OP and more reasonable. What you are saying is basically;

''TNT isn't OP and should be more powerful, allowing raiders to get more time, more items, because this is a hardocre server''.

Honestly, your side of the story comes from PvPers only. In particuler, the ones that have actually quit the server because they don't get their daily dose of extreme PvP (surprisingly, the PvP which benefits them only). Which sucks, it really does. I like to discuss PvP issues with people, but when it comes to groups and members such as yourself; it usually goes nowhere. Your idea of a ''PvP/Hardcore'' server, is basically whereas YOU get all the loot and everyone suffers. This isn't what PvP is about. It is about things being fair. Your suggestion of a ''10 minute'' block regeneration isn't fair, infact, it could be used to completely wipe out a town. The same can be said with your other ''suggestions''.

I've looked at both sides of the arguement. The constant ''this is a hardcore server'' is just useless in this arguement, infact, with many. Using that form of thinking, I could say ''Ok, this is a hardcore server, so let's have wizards smash through walls 3 block-thick walls, legit, with their blinks, and dragoons being able to jump through glass, and theives instantly steal from chests covered up''. In all three cases, i've taken three basic methods of raiding/steal, and have amplified them to make them ''hardcore'', essecially helping those (such as yourself) who consistantly complain about a ''lack of PvP''.

This leads to what someone else said earlier;

If you constantly complain and bring up the idea that the server is ''hardcore'', why not just remove regions, LWCs, skills and levels being saved, ect? Why not have it that, whenever you log into the server, you start off a Level 0, then you have to work your way up? THAT is what I feel, you feel, ''hardcore'' is. Don't like these ideas? Well, they are stupid. Sure, regions may protect people; but they come at a cost. They offer security. If there was no security, nothing would happen. Every chest would be looted, every sword would be lost, nobody would PvP because they DON'T have the resources.

Since TNT is a block, I would assume you can't place it in regions. This means that contrary to your overblown descriptions of TNT, not every chest would be looted. A TNT cannon would have to be set up meaning, A. it could be stopped by an organized party of town members killing the operators, or B. The use of another TNT cannon or manually taking it down.

Your "hardcore" comparisons are ridiculous and do not apply at all to Herocraft. Those comparisons would be like saying TNT should remove the regions of whatever it lands on for an hour. Instead, TNT is a moderate way of opening up the first defense of a town for a mere 30 seconds. It would add more urgency and necessity to town defense instead of the groups of people aoeing and spamming insults that takes place today. It would improve group PVP by making towns come together instead of doing what they were before and hiding in impenetrable regions.

TNT would NOT strip towns of all "security", but instead just offer raiders a way in through the first layers of the town. Getting any farther into the town would require either proficient aim or a faulty design consisting of a thin veneer of material covering up an undercity. TNT would add another element to the game and call for a new type of skill in aiming TNT and judging distance. If you are so afraid of chests being looted then either get an LWC or create a more secure chest storage location.

The attempt to stop TNT from getting through regions seems to be suggested by people that are afraid of PVP and avoid it at all costs. TNT would create more town unity and organization because instead of ignoring everything outside of your box of safety, you would have to bring your town together to defend the walls and prevent raiders from getting inside. The explosions of the TNT would provide plenty of warning that raiders are outside so appropriate actions could be taken.

If you actually take some steps to set up an organized group of people that will listen to commands, no one would "get all of the loot". In fact, after getting into the town it would be hard to get any more loot than a raid would normally get. This server is hardcore and while PVP is not the entirety of it, it is a significant part. The entire heroes plugin is a PVP enhancer. While the server can be taken too far in the PVP direction it can also go the other way. It sound like you would be happiest on a building server where you can build to your hearts content while avoiding interference. In a "hardcore" server there should not be boxes of ultimate security all across the map. The spawn provides this and people can always buy a plot to store their valuables.

In the end, resources would still be mostly safe. The only thing that would change is people would no longer be able to hide in their impenetrable boxes and avoid a large part of the server that makes it unique.

@MajorasMask

 

[Kwong050]

Since TNT is a block, I would assume you can't place it in regions. This means that contrary to your overblown descriptions of TNT, not every chest would be looted. A TNT cannon would have to be set up meaning, A. it could be stopped by an organized party of town members killing the operators, or B. The use of another TNT cannon or manually taking it down.

Your "hardcore" comparisons are ridiculous and do not apply at all to Herocraft. Those comparisons would be like saying TNT should remove the regions of whatever it lands on for an hour. Instead, TNT is a moderate way of opening up the first defense of a town for a mere 30 seconds. It would add more urgency and necessity to town defense instead of the groups of people aoeing and spamming insults that takes place today. It would improve group PVP by making towns come together instead of doing what they were before and hiding in impenetrable regions.

TNT would NOT strip towns of all "security", but instead just offer raiders a way in through the first layers of the town. Getting any farther into the town would require either proficient aim or a faulty design consisting of a thin veneer of material covering up an undercity. TNT would add another element to the game and call for a new type of skill in aiming TNT and judging distance. If you are so afraid of chests being looted then either get an LWC or create a more secure chest storage location.

The attempt to stop TNT from getting through regions seems to be suggested by people that are afraid of PVP and avoid it at all costs. TNT would create more town unity and organization because instead of ignoring everything outside of your box of safety, you would have to bring your town together to defend the walls and prevent raiders from getting inside. The explosions of the TNT would provide plenty of warning that raiders are outside so appropriate actions could be taken.

If you actually take some steps to set up an organized group of people that will listen to commands, no one would "get all of the loot". In fact, after getting into the town it would be hard to get any more loot than a raid would normally get. This server is hardcore and while PVP is not the entirety of it, it is a significant part. The entire heroes plugin is a PVP enhancer. While the server can be taken too far in the PVP direction it can also go the other way. It sound like you would be happiest on a building server where you can build to your hearts content while avoiding interference. In a "hardcore" server there should not be boxes of ultimate security all across the map. The spawn provides this and people can always buy a plot to store their valuables.

In the end, resources would still be mostly safe. The only thing that would change is people would no longer be able to hide in their impenetrable boxes and avoid a large part of the server that makes it unique.

@MajorasMask

baller

 

[Keache]

Everyone says ''This is hardcore, gtfo'' This is Hardcore MMO RPG. Townships is actually a bigger part of HC then pvp imo. People pay everything they own to create and upgrade towns and they spend hundreds of hours building and improving. TnT breaking regioned walls will force towns to be even uglier. People will make chest-walls and doble boxes to prevent TnT breaking trough their walls. People will use the TnT skill once, mark inside, groupteleport people inside, town members will give up on the town, people will ragequit and HC loses members. There is a win for people who wants to play on a server with 20-30 people on at max, because why would anyone pay 10K + upgrade costs for a region that can be negated anyway? It'll lead to no towns, and no towns will lead to a weak community which will lead to noone playing. Remember, HC started as a server where stealing from towns lead the ban. Townships > PvP

Chests are not immune to tnt. I think you need to realize that just blowing all your coins on protection isn't good enough. My townmembers and myself have spent WEEKS on designing our town around making it look good, provide tnt protection, and providing chest protection. If the dev team really wanted townships to be instant pvp protection they would have enabled the no-pvp feature.

 

[ThatAintFalco]

You know, if you had your region like 10 blocks away from the edge of your region, it would be impossible to blow up your walls. Maybe ugly water/obby walls.

 

[MajorasMask]

Since TNT is a block, I would assume you can't place it in regions. This means that contrary to your overblown descriptions of TNT, not every chest would be looted. A TNT cannon would have to be set up meaning, A. it could be stopped by an organized party of town members killing the operators, or B. The use of another TNT cannon or manually taking it down.

Your "hardcore" comparisons are ridiculous and do not apply at all to Herocraft. Those comparisons would be like saying TNT should remove the regions of whatever it lands on for an hour. Instead, TNT is a moderate way of opening up the first defense of a town for a mere 30 seconds. It would add more urgency and necessity to town defense instead of the groups of people aoeing and spamming insults that takes place today. It would improve group PVP by making towns come together instead of doing what they were before and hiding in impenetrable regions.

TNT would NOT strip towns of all "security", but instead just offer raiders a way in through the first layers of the town. Getting any farther into the town would require either proficient aim or a faulty design consisting of a thin veneer of material covering up an undercity. TNT would add another element to the game and call for a new type of skill in aiming TNT and judging distance. If you are so afraid of chests being looted then either get an LWC or create a more secure chest storage location.

The attempt to stop TNT from getting through regions seems to be suggested by people that are afraid of PVP and avoid it at all costs. TNT would create more town unity and organization because instead of ignoring everything outside of your box of safety, you would have to bring your town together to defend the walls and prevent raiders from getting inside. The explosions of the TNT would provide plenty of warning that raiders are outside so appropriate actions could be taken.

If you actually take some steps to set up an organized group of people that will listen to commands, no one would "get all of the loot". In fact, after getting into the town it would be hard to get any more loot than a raid would normally get. This server is hardcore and while PVP is not the entirety of it, it is a significant part. The entire heroes plugin is a PVP enhancer. While the server can be taken too far in the PVP direction it can also go the other way. It sound like you would be happiest on a building server where you can build to your hearts content while avoiding interference. In a "hardcore" server there should not be boxes of ultimate security all across the map. The spawn provides this and people can always buy a plot to store their valuables.

In the end, resources would still be mostly safe. The only thing that would change is people would no longer be able to hide in their impenetrable boxes and avoid a large part of the server that makes it unique.

@MajorasMask

If you read what I said before hand, I actually said that i'm fine with TNT, provided that it has a block regeneration of around 10-5 seconds. My comment on the ''every chest being looted'' comes from where Malmenca says there should be a regeneration of 10 minutes. Honestly, 10 minutes is insane. If that were the case, you COULD blow a town to bits for 10 minutes, with great ease. Further from that, you COULD get access to every chest (those not LWC'd).

With 30 seconds, it would be easy to get past not only the first ''wall of defence'', but also many others. You expect towns to be able to defend from enemies, but how can they if there is nobody online? It would be stupid to say ''recruit more'', because many towns DO, however they mainly recruit in their own timezone. If someone comes to a town while the owners/members are sleeping, that will give them full advanatage and access to one's town. Even if there are members online, do you honestly believe that they will ALWAYS be able to fight back? Not everyone is a good PvPer, some are low leveled, some get lag, ect.

You say towns should put more effort into defences, but seriously? Have you heard the suggestion Malmenca said? That all blocks (both water and obsidian) should be blown up? Also, people who support 30-second block regeneration say towns should have defences, but when people get walls, and multiple layers of undercity, to protect their items further, you complain? The idea of defences just pushes town buildings further and further underground. A 10 second regeneration would fix this, as you would need A LOT less defence.

By the way, cannons are kinda useless. You could just make a wall/massive row of TNT around a town, then blow it up. This will create mass destruction of blocks around the whole area. Whether for 30 seconds or 10, this will be extreme (which is why I suggested a cooldown on placing TNT blocks).

Not everyone wants to PvP. Like you said yourself, this server isn't all about PvP. Ever heard of neutral towns? Those that don't want to take part in PvP? Yeah, they have walls, defences, ect. TNT would go past that, wouldn't it?

At the end, you said that resources ''Would still be safe'', but then say people ''Won't be able to hide in their boxes''. So, what, they will be able to get killed but not have their items stolen? What if they hide near their items? Doesn't quite make sense to me.

 

[MajorasMask]

You know, if you had your region like 10 blocks away from the edge of your region, it would be impossible to blow up your walls. Maybe ugly water/obby walls.

TNT Cannons.