This Week's Balance Changes

[Irishman81]

Alright, so we haven't done any major patches because we're mostly focused on revamping the classes, but I think these changes will help straighten everything out a little better. Note that ranger received a tweak for Friday until the multiplier problems are fixed.

Runeblade:

• Lower max health from 978.5 -> 928.5 at max level
• Lower base left click from 70.25 -> 65.25

Brawler:

• Lower max healh from 1059.5 -> 984.5 at max level

Samurai:

• Increase cooldown of Parrymagic from 30 seconds -> 1.5 minutes
• Increase cooldown of masamune from 25->35
• Lower max health from 1017.25 -> 967.25

Dragoon:

• Increase jump's cooldown from 10->12

Pyromancer:

• Increase Greatcombustion damage from 40+1 per intellect -> 55+2 per intellect
• Replace infernoorb with fireball

Wizard:

• Decrease the quantity of ticks for arcanestorm from 6->4. Increase damage per tick from 15 +0.5 per int -> 30.25 +0.5 per int (same damage as 6 ticks)

Shadowknight:

• Lower base left click from 56.9->51.9
• Reduce soulleech warmup from 1->0.5
• Increase tick damage per dreadaura tick from 9+0.25 per int -> 14+0.25 per int
  
• Change time between ticks from 3.5->2 seconds

Cleric:

• Increase healing of sacredword from 100+2 per wisdom -> 125 -> 2 per wisdom
• Increase healing of sacredtouch from 190+4.25 per wisdom -> 210+4.25 per wisdom

Druid:

• Reduce warmup of rejuvenate from 2->1 second
• Reduce duration of rejuvenate from 14-> 10 seconds
• Increase tick healing of rejuvenate from 24+0.125 per wisdom every 2 seconds -> 40+0.125 per wisdom
• Decrease warmup of healigbloom from 2.5 -> 1.5 secondS

Shaman:

• Increase tick healing of healingtotem from 15+0.5 per wisdom -> 25+0.5 per wisdom
• Decrease warmup of healingsurge from 2.5 -> 1.5 seconds

Monk:

• Increase base left click from 39.3-> 49.3
• Decrease warmup of renewal from 2.5->2 seconds
• Increase renewal healing from 150+1.875 -> 190+1.875 per wisdom

Updated patch notes
@Balance Team

 

[Jrr_]

I'd like to see the masamune skill reverted back to 25 seconds and instead reduce its left click by about 5.

 

[Irishman81]

Added some monk changes @Balance Team - I'd appreciate some feedback, as these are just suggestions and not what's actually in the game yet.

 

[victim130]

The overall issue with samurai is its ability to toss out skills with little worry of stamina problems (Although, you'll still run out if you use everything) and this is a viable play style because most damaging skills are upfront and really only secondarily useful at best. That's probably more for the revamp to deal with though. I think what you have there is fine for now.

I'm glad we are finally giving healers some love, especially cleric. I'm not really sure about the Monk changes though. I feel upping their presence as a healer is a good thing, but giving them more damage doesn't feel right to me. Maybe pull back the left click a bit, around 43-45 and make renewal warmup 1.5.

 

[Irishman81]

The overall issue with samurai is its ability to toss out skills with little worry of stamina problems (Although, you'll still run out if you use everything) and this is a viable play style because most damaging skills are upfront and really only secondarily useful at best. That's probably more for the revamp to deal with though. I think what you have there is fine for now.

I'm glad we are finally giving healers some love, especially cleric. I'm not really sure about the Monk changes though. I feel upping their presence as a healer is a good thing, but giving them more damage doesn't feel right to me. Maybe pull back the left click a bit, around 43-45 and make renewal warmup 1.5.

It's just that disciple is mediocre at best at damage and healing. Even though it has no problem sticking on casters/healers, it can't come close to outsamaging it and just ends up dying, and fighting against warriors/rogues is almost impossible. If the damage isn't increased by that much that's fine, but the healing would have to go up then.

Do you have any suggestions if it went down more of the healing path other than what we have right now?

 

[PewPewPewLasers]

@Irishman81 @Balance Team while testing around with stuff we have figured out a reason for all the classes doing such weird amounts of damage; armour isn't working properly. We're still testing stuff and trying to figure out exactly how everything is working, but essentially armour is currently granting a LOT less resistance than it should be. This is probably a big factor in why classes like ranger, dragoon and samurai are stomping at the moment. Because of this, I suggest that we hold off on any balance changes until we can fix armour.

Once we figure everything out and have real numbers, I'll try to make a real post explaining it. All we know for now is that it is currently very weak compared to how it's supposed to be.

 

[Irishman81]

@Irishman81 @Balance Team while testing around with stuff we have figured out a reason for all the classes doing such weird amounts of damage; armour isn't working properly. We're still testing stuff and trying to figure out exactly how everything is working, but essentially armour is currently granting a LOT less resistance than it should be. This is probably a big factor in why classes like ranger, dragoon and samurai are stomping at the moment. Because of this, I suggest that we hold off on any balance changes until we can fix armour.

Once we figure everything out and have real numbers, I'll try to make a real post explaining it. All we know for now is that it is currently very weak compared to how it's supposed to be.

You don't think some of these warrior nerfs won't help at all? If they're too much after armor gets fixed we can always revert them

 

[joshtsai]

Runeblade- I think that rune blade is incredibly strong vs its non-magic counter part ninja, dishing out way more damage that any ninja could dream of doing, as well as the fact that rune blade can also 1v1 at lower levels compared to ninja. I think the current changes won't ruin the duelist class that it is currently yet will balance it out vs ninjas. Agree

Brawler- In my opinion the strongest warrior(maybe tied with samurai) in the game right now. It has everything from tankyness, mobility, and damage. I think making it less of a tank would be a welcome change. Agree

Samurai- A 35 second CD of Speed 3 with a duration of 7.5 seconds would mean a new downtime of 28 seconds compared to the 18 it was before. I think this will make samurai more forced to be a front line fighter, which should be its role instead of the pseudo rogue that it currently is. This is a good change. Agree
Currently blade-grasp has a CD of 90 seconds. Moving Parrymagic to 120 seconds seems like too much imo. I would say to make them even, because they are effectively equivalents in what they do. If there was a way to force a samurai to choose which damage to block, magic or physical would be even better. Right now if I understand it, both an arrow and a bolt for example can be blocked. I think that the change would need more thinking about.
Max health has always been an issue with tanks that aren't paladin, so a change shouldn't really make much of a difference.

Pyromancer- It's really hard to say because so few people play the class. I think it can be strong but only in very few situations. I'm willing to see how the changes affect how often people play the class. AGREE

Wizard- yes please

Shadow knight- this class is both good and bad atm. I think the lack of mobility and hard CC make it weak vs casters and the like, so adding in things that assist with shadow knights that do actually get into range would be good. Also Dreadaura fixes would be good because that skill is totally useless.

Cleric- These are fine, cleric is a very good class but just really boring to play. Maybe some love will let some people play it

Druid- Druid changes are fine as well, no one plays this class sadly and hopefully the rejuvenate buffs will stop making it a bad skill

Shaman- The class is indeed underwhelming and the changes to the support capabilities should be good.

Monk- I play monk


One final suggestion I can make is perhaps adding in PVE multipliers to Firestriketotem. 23 Damage to zombies imo is far too low. I think that while endermage is a really strong pvp class it's worse in pve. I think if the pve capabilities of the class were made stronger, more people would be inclined to go the class.

@Irishman81

 

[joshtsai]

It's just that disciple is mediocre at best at damage and healing. Even though it has no problem sticking on casters/healers, it can't come close to outsamaging it and just ends up dying, and fighting against warriors/rogues is almost impossible. If the damage isn't increased by that much that's fine, but the healing would have to go up then.

Do you have any suggestions if it went down more of the healing path other than what we have right now?

There's two ways we can go with the monk path, the support healer or the brute fighter.

If you want to go more of the support path:
I know I joke about it a lot but adding mana to fistofjin would actually make the class a very good field support to be in the thick of the fight. It shouldn't be too much around 3-5 per hit twice a second.

Increasing team hp gained from fistofjin

Lower forcepull and push damage but making the cool down 10 seconds

Removing the slow1 from Ironfist, decrease the cool down from 23 to 15. Lower damage to 30. Increase range by 1-2 blocks


If you want to go into brute force path:

Increase flyingkick DEX scaling from .125 to .175 which changes the additional range(with alacrity on) from 2.625 extra blocks to 3.675 extra blocks.

Removing the slow1 from ironfist, increasing the damage that ironfist deals.

Adding in a new smite like skill that does increased damage from 55 light damage to 80 damage after strength scaling.

Increasing damage multiplier of quivering palm from 1.075 to somewhere around 1.1 to 1.2.

Obviously if you added in all of the support buffs or all of the brute force buffs this class would be broken as hell, but here are some ideas that can be implemented in either way to make the class feel more useful in a fight.

Remember that the most powerful skill in the kit of monk is balance, and if anything changes to the class, balance would also have to be changed, either lowering the range(which probably wouldn't help that much based on how balance can be used) or increasing the costs / adding a warmup( personally feel like if a warmup were added to balance, massive changes would have to be put in the healing capabilities of the class since balance is very core to how the class operates.

@911FashionPolice any more input?

 

[PewPewPewLasers]

You don't think some of these warrior nerfs won't help at all? If they're too much after armor gets fixed we can always revert them

I think that it depends on if it's an easy fix or not, if the fix is simply just a number thing than we might as well keep everything how it is now and get a feel for what everything is supposed to be like, if it's not I think we should go through with it and just adapt to the weird armour for now.

 

[911FashionPolice]

There's two ways we can go with the monk path, the support healer or the brute fighter.

If you want to go more of the support path:
I know I joke about it a lot but adding mana to fistofjin would actually make the class a very good field support to be in the thick of the fight. It shouldn't be too much around 3-5 per hit twice a second.

Increasing team hp gained from fistofjin

Lower forcepull and push damage but making the cool down 10 seconds

Removing the slow1 from Ironfist, decrease the cool down from 23 to 15. Lower damage to 30. Increase range by 1-2 blocks


If you want to go into brute force path:

Increase flyingkick DEX scaling from .125 to .175 which changes the additional range(with alacrity on) from 2.625 extra blocks to 3.675 extra blocks.

Removing the slow1 from ironfist, increasing the damage that ironfist deals.

Adding in a new smite like skill that does increased damage from 55 light damage to 80 damage after strength scaling.

Increasing damage multiplier of quivering palm from 1.075 to somewhere around 1.1 to 1.2.

Obviously if you added in all of the support buffs or all of the brute force buffs this class would be broken as hell, but here are some ideas that can be implemented in either way to make the class feel more useful in a fight.

Remember that the most powerful skill in the kit of monk is balance, and if anything changes to the class, balance would also have to be changed, either lowering the range(which probably wouldn't help that much based on how balance can be used) or increasing the costs / adding a warmup( personally feel like if a warmup were added to balance, massive changes would have to be put in the healing capabilities of the class since balance is very core to how the class operates.

@911FashionPolice any more input?

To me, I always felt that Disciple/Monk was always about a 60/40 damage/support if not closer to 70/30. The changes made to Monk in the post are fine to fit this role, as it increases Monk's mediocre damage more than its mediocre healing (as the post states). The current problem with Monk is that a class like Paladin can pretty much do everything it can but much better. It has signifcantly more tankiness, more damage, and more group presence with taunt, reckoning, layhands, and divinestun. The only thing Monk has as an advantage in is balance and chakra, which I agree are very strong and core skills and which are very noticeable in fights. However, if we decide to skew it even further to one side, I honestly really like your changes. As a support, it has more disruption in group fights and helps sustain party members with both health and mana. As a damage dealer, it has a spammable magic damage skill that does a ton of damage and a skill that increases left click by a pretty good amount, but has a high potential to be super strong. If we could find a balance between both paths I think Monk would be in a fun and good spot. However, this is all just my opinion and -- like all changes -- would require testing in both numbers and overall mechanics.

 

[Pugglez_]

I personally don't have too much of a problem healing people as Cleric, but then again I am on DIscord with the people I'm healing with and I can call out if I'm healing someone or I can tell them to get closer for heals.

But even with voice, I would say the main problem with healing is healing people in clustered fights (where everyone is fighting very close to each other). It is very hard to target heal the right person and I just end up having to cancel my healing a couple times before finally getting the right person.

Another problem in healing in clustered fights or healing in general is that so many people are using skills that the chat gets flooded and ends up scrolling way too fast. This makes it a problem for determining if you are even healing the right person because you can't see who you are using your heals on. I believe a simple solution to this problem is having color coded healing messages (pink probably) that you can easily distinguish from the rest of skills.

 

[joshtsai]

Another thing @Balance Team I feel that all revives should be able to be used in combat. they were taken out because of issues in tourneys, and now on the event server all of those skills have been removed. I think its a risk vs reward thing that could be worth doing during a fight that people should have the option for.

I personally don't have too much of a problem healing people as Cleric, but then again I am on DIscord with the people I'm healing with and I can call out if I'm healing someone or I can tell them to get closer for heals.

But even with voice, I would say the main problem with healing is healing people in clustered fights (where everyone is fighting very close to each other). It is very hard to target heal the right person and I just end up having to cancel my healing a couple times before finally getting the right person.

Another problem in healing in clustered fights or healing in general is that so many people are using skills that the chat gets flooded and ends up scrolling way too fast. This makes it a problem for determining if you are even healing the right person because you can't see who you are using your heals on. I believe a simple solution to this problem is having color coded healing messages (pink probably) that you can easily distinguish from the rest of skills.

I'm so torn on current status of healing. I don't know the future plans for how healing is going to work but the system is both bad and good at the same time. I've thought about it a lot and I personally don't know how to fix it.

 

[Hydroking77]

My 2 cents on Pyromancer. What I felt was the hardest part of the class was landing InfernoOrb while on the move. I felt like when I tried to use it while I was sprint jumping that it just felt inconstant. Additionally, if I was trying to chase someone every skill felt useless but blink. If I tried to GreatCombustion someone who is sprint jumping away I would first have to blink right on top of them then hope it hits them, again constancy issues. Pretty much every skill cannot be used on the move. The biggest pet peeve I had with the class was when people would face eat fireball, 170 damage out the window even though I landed the shot. Overall, the class just felt inconstant from 1 fight to another.

 

[Irishman81]

My 2 cents on Pyromancer. What I felt was the hardest part of the class was landing InfernoOrb while on the move. I felt like when I tried to use it while I was sprint jumping that it just felt inconstant. Additionally, if I was trying to chase someone every skill felt useless but blink. If I tried to GreatCombustion someone who is sprint jumping away I would first have to blink right on top of them then hope it hits them, again constancy issues. Pretty much every skill cannot be used on the move. The biggest pet peeve I had with the class was when people would face eat fireball, 170 damage out the window even though I landed the shot. Overall, the class just felt inconstant from 1 fight to another.

I know we tried this before, but since we're revamping the classes anyway, would it be possible to just replace infernoorb with fireball? This would add a lot more consistent damage to the class instead of a buggy projectile @Kainzo

 

[PewPewPewLasers]

My 2 cents on Pyromancer. What I felt was the hardest part of the class was landing InfernoOrb while on the move. I felt like when I tried to use it while I was sprint jumping that it just felt inconstant. Additionally, if I was trying to chase someone every skill felt useless but blink. If I tried to GreatCombustion someone who is sprint jumping away I would first have to blink right on top of them then hope it hits them, again constancy issues. Pretty much every skill cannot be used on the move. The biggest pet peeve I had with the class was when people would face eat fireball, 170 damage out the window even though I landed the shot. Overall, the class just felt inconstant from 1 fight to another.

I agree with this a lot. I think InfernoOrb is one of the worst skills in the game currently, and while pyromancer has a lot of cool skills it is currently a very inconsistent class, generally being incredibly weak but sometimes getting crazy burst off. I think adding fireball like Irish suggested for the time being while the revamp is being done will help patch up pyromancer a bit.

 

[Irishman81]

Changes are in whenever kain pushes them. I held off of the fauxbomb one until we can confirm it does not have the same issue as old plaguebomb. Original post has updated notes. @Balance Team

 

[Air_Restraint]

Changes are in whenever kain pushes them. I held off of the fauxbomb one until we can confirm it does not have the same issue as old plaguebomb. Original post has updated notes. @Balance Team

I feel like we should still add a harsher punishment to Wizard's Ender Pearls when in combat.

 

[Irishman81]

I feel like we should still add a harsher punishment to Wizard's Ender Pearls when in combat.

What do you mean? Increasing the in combat cooldown?

 

[Air_Restraint]

What do you mean? Increasing the in combat cooldown?

Take damage while using it in combat. Maybe 50-100 damage. Keep the current cd also.