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This Week's Balance Changes

Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Likes
298
#1
Alright everyone, let's try to get some stuff down for hopefully this Friday, if not the next.

Bard:
Reduce Gold Sword left click damage to 42.9 (this is with the swing speed timer taken into account) - This was an oversight on my part, the gold sword damage stayed the same through the previous patch, resulting in bard dealing much more damage than intended.
Base Armor -> Full Chainmail to Chain Helmet, Chain Chestplate, Chain leggings, Leather boots.

Ninja:
I'm not quite sure how to make sense of the current Backstab multiplier (Hopefully @Kainzo can shed some light on it), but I feel like it could use a slight reduction.

Beguiler:
So apparently, Plaguebomb was removed due to it crashing the server yadayada, but that leaves Beguiler in a pretty shitty spot, not having its main damage skill. We can do what we did back in haven when this was an issue before.
Add ChaoticVisions: Dealing 130+3 per int damage - 17 sec cd, 125 mana cost. (This is the same as plaguebomb)

This is all I have for now, will add more tomorrow - @Balance Team
 
Last edited:

Kainzo

The Disposable Hero
Staff member
Founder
Adventure Team
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Likes
7,539
Location
The 7th Circle of Heaven
#2
Alright everyone, let's try to get some stuff down for hopefully this Friday, if not the next.

Bard:
Reduce Gold Sword left click damage to 42.9 (this is with the swing speed timer taken into account) - This was an oversight on my part, the gold sword damage stayed the same through the previous patch, resulting in bard dealing much more damage than intended.
Base Armor -> Full Chainmail to Leather Helmet, Chain Chestplate, Chain leggings, Leather boots.

Ninja:
I'm not quite sure how to make sense of the current Backstab multiplier (Hopefully @Kainzo can shed some light on it), but I feel like it could use a slight reduction.

Beguiler:
So apparently, Plaguebomb was removed due to it crashing the server yadayada, but that leaves Beguiler in a pretty shitty spot, not having its main damage skill. We can do what we did back in haven when this was an issue before.
Add ChaoticVisions: Dealing 130+3 per int damage - 17 sec cd, 125 mana cost. (This is the same as plaguebomb)

This is all I have for now, will add more tomorrow - @Balance Team
add them visions.

Whats wrong with backstab atm?
 
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Likes
298
#3
add them visions.

Whats wrong with backstab atm?
I just think the multiplier is too high, but when I tried to look at the current numbers in git, it didn't really make sense, so I'm assuming its in the code part that I don't have access to.
 

Kainzo

The Disposable Hero
Staff member
Founder
Adventure Team
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Likes
7,539
Location
The 7th Circle of Heaven
#4
I just think the multiplier is too high, but when I tried to look at the current numbers in git, it didn't really make sense, so I'm assuming its in the code part that I don't have access to.
we increase damage overall by having +dmg work now... so that may be it.
 
Joined
May 23, 2012
Likes
122
#7
Alright everyone, let's try to get some stuff down for hopefully this Friday, if not the next.

Bard:
Reduce Gold Sword left click damage to 42.9 (this is with the swing speed timer taken into account) - This was an oversight on my part, the gold sword damage stayed the same through the previous patch, resulting in bard dealing much more damage than intended.
Base Armor -> Full Chainmail to Leather Helmet, Chain Chestplate, Chain leggings, Leather boots.

Ninja:
I'm not quite sure how to make sense of the current Backstab multiplier (Hopefully @Kainzo can shed some light on it), but I feel like it could use a slight reduction.

Beguiler:
So apparently, Plaguebomb was removed due to it crashing the server yadayada, but that leaves Beguiler in a pretty shitty spot, not having its main damage skill. We can do what we did back in haven when this was an issue before.
Add ChaoticVisions: Dealing 130+3 per int damage - 17 sec cd, 125 mana cost. (This is the same as plaguebomb)

This is all I have for now, will add more tomorrow - @Balance Team
Yep I agree with the Bard changes to armor and damage.

Chaotic Visions looks good
 

LordZelkova

Ashen One...
Tier 8
Joined
Jul 3, 2011
Likes
358
#8
Alright everyone, let's try to get some stuff down for hopefully this Friday, if not the next.

Bard:
Reduce Gold Sword left click damage to 42.9 (this is with the swing speed timer taken into account) - This was an oversight on my part, the gold sword damage stayed the same through the previous patch, resulting in bard dealing much more damage than intended.
Base Armor -> Full Chainmail to Leather Helmet, Chain Chestplate, Chain leggings, Leather boots.

Ninja:
I'm not quite sure how to make sense of the current Backstab multiplier (Hopefully @Kainzo can shed some light on it), but I feel like it could use a slight reduction.

Beguiler:
So apparently, Plaguebomb was removed due to it crashing the server yadayada, but that leaves Beguiler in a pretty shitty spot, not having its main damage skill. We can do what we did back in haven when this was an issue before.
Add ChaoticVisions: Dealing 130+3 per int damage - 17 sec cd, 125 mana cost. (This is the same as plaguebomb)

This is all I have for now, will add more tomorrow - @Balance Team
Hmm, I feel like Bard is just gonna get shit on even more now, full chain/gold always felt enough.
I know it's potential to make fights last forever, and it's ability to give mana/stam/hp and silence, but instead of making bard die faster, why not adjust the effectiveness of the Buffs?

I remember it was thrown around about having the buff be effected by # of people, was that even explored?
 
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Likes
298
#9
Hmm, I feel like Bard is just gonna get shit on even more now, full chain/gold always felt enough.
I know it's potential to make fights last forever, and it's ability to give mana/stam/hp and silence, but instead of making bard die faster, why not adjust the effectiveness of the Buffs?

I remember it was thrown around about having the buff be effected by # of people, was that even explored?
I just think that for a rogue, and everything it is bringing to the table buff/silence wise, having that much armor with as high base hp is a little too strong. I was considering lowering the base hp instead of armor, but I thought it would be better for it to keep its survivability vs casters instead of vs warriors/other rogues. Once we get this on test we can try it out to see if it's too harsh.
 

LordZelkova

Ashen One...
Tier 8
Joined
Jul 3, 2011
Likes
358
#10
I just think that for a rogue, and everything it is bringing to the table buff/silence wise, having that much armor with as high base hp is a little too strong. I was considering lowering the base hp instead of armor, but I thought it would be better for it to keep its survivability vs casters instead of vs warriors/other rogues. Once we get this on test we can try it out to see if it's too harsh.
I also think we need to move bard off Rogue and stop thinking of it like one.
If we're gonna lower it's armor, I think we should consider bugging HealingChorus, that skill has always been damn near worthless.
~142 hp for team mates, ~100 for you, over 10s.
That really not much and very rarely makes an impact. I don't have exact numbers for it, but I do think it should actually feel worthwhile.
 
Joined
Jun 11, 2011
Likes
244
#11
Alright everyone, let's try to get some stuff down for hopefully this Friday, if not the next.

Bard:
Base Armor -> Full Chainmail to Leather Helmet, Chain Chestplate, Chain leggings, Leather boots.
Although this isn't much of a change from the original, I think only either the helmet or boots should be changed to leather. Bards never really stood much of a chance against other melees, especially against people who know how to play their class, even before gold weapons came in. Now that the gold weapons w/o attack timer came in, it's survivability is a lot worse now against other melees. Now it does have HealingChorus, but it only heals 100~ HP to the Bard over 10 seconds, which in reality only gives Bard less than 30-50 hp if your lucky because the Bard would most likely have suffered damage by the time 10 seconds passed by.

Granted of course that Bard is a group fight class, not a solo. But even then, because of Bard's close-range play style (Having to be close to the fight for its songs to affect its party, melodic binding, voidsong, etc...) it gets bursted down pretty quickly both by casters and melees whether or not the enemies even intended to burst it down.

Beguiler:
So apparently, Plaguebomb was removed due to it crashing the server yadayada, but that leaves Beguiler in a pretty shitty spot, not having its main damage skill. We can do what we did back in haven when this was an issue before.
Add ChaoticVisions: Dealing 130+3 per int damage - 17 sec cd, 125 mana cost. (This is the same as plaguebomb)
The scaling for ChaoticVisions is WAY too high. Even the old ChaoticVisions at most only dealt 130~ damage. In my opinion, ChaoticVisions has always been way more powerful than plague bomb. Damage-wise in a single use, PlagueBomb of course does more damage. However, ChaoticVisions is very hard to miss compared to plague bomb making it much more deadly. ChaoticVisions has decent spell length and good spell width.

ChaoticVisions' scaling should be adjusted so that the normal T1 class only deals around 100-120~ per ChoaticVisions, while T2 classes with extreme intellect build (35+ int) would deal 150~ damage with it.
 
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Likes
298
#12
Although this isn't much of a change from the original, I think only either the helmet or boots should be changed to leather. Bards never really stood much of a chance against other melees, especially against people who know how to play their class, even before gold weapons came in. Now that the gold weapons w/o attack timer came in, it's survivability is a lot worse now against other melees. Now it does have HealingChorus, but it only heals 100~ HP to the Bard over 10 seconds, which in reality only gives Bard less than 30-50 hp if your lucky because the Bard would most likely have suffered damage by the time 10 seconds passed by.

Granted of course that Bard is a group fight class, not a solo. But even then, because of Bard's close-range play style (Having to be close to the fight for its songs to affect its party, melodic binding, voidsong, etc...) it gets bursted down pretty quickly both by casters and melees whether or not the enemies even intended to burst it down.



The scaling for ChaoticVisions is WAY too high. Even the old ChaoticVisions at most only dealt 130~ damage. In my opinion, ChaoticVisions has always been way more powerful than plague bomb. Damage-wise in a single use, PlagueBomb of course does more damage. However, ChaoticVisions is very hard to miss compared to plague bomb making it much more deadly. ChaoticVisions has decent spell length and good spell width.

ChaoticVisions' scaling should be adjusted so that the normal T1 class only deals around 100-120~ per ChoaticVisions, while T2 classes with extreme intellect build (35+ int) would deal 150~ damage with it.
Some valid points. I added back the chain helmet.

How does 95+1 per intellect sound? (124 damage as a t1 beguiler) I think if we do reduce the damage like this (Plaguebomb dealt 217 aoe damage on t1 beguiler), the cooldown should be reduced to maybe 14 seconds, the damage output is really low if we keep the cooldown as high as 17. Just basing off your example, as a tier 1, beguiler already has 29 intellect, so a tier 2 with 35 intellect only has 6 more - going from 120->150 damage just off 6 intellect is 5 scaling, which is obviously too extreme.

What does everyone else think? @Balance Team
 
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Likes
21
Location
Mideast
#13
Some valid points. I added back the chain helmet.

How does 95+1 per intellect sound? (124 damage as a t1 beguiler) I think if we do reduce the damage like this (Plaguebomb dealt 217 aoe damage on t1 beguiler), the cooldown should be reduced to maybe 14 seconds, the damage output is really low if we keep the cooldown as high as 17. Just basing off your example, as a tier 1, beguiler already has 29 intellect, so a tier 2 with 35 intellect only has 6 more - going from 120->150 damage just off 6 intellect is 5 scaling, which is obviously too extreme.

What does everyone else think? @Balance Team
Will chaoticvisions be removed when plaguebomb is fixed?
 
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