Suggestion Theives and Speed

[Plob5]

@Jayzy3

I think beastmaster should come back, Ninja's/Thieves are pretty much alike, like Spartman said they are really just for stealing/backtabbing.

A Beastmaster ideas would be.

98 Max HP
10dmg bow
6dmg Axe


They should be a combination of Ranger/Bard (imo)


Level 5 - Wolf - 20mp- 5min CD, Obviously it tames a wolf
Level 15 - Tumble - We all know what that is
Level 20 - Fire Arrow - ^^
Level 35 - Pulse - ^^
Level 50 - Backflip - Longer CD
Level 55 - Lick wounds- All past Zealer's should know what that is :{

 

[Glent]

What if they moved faster in lower light levels?

This idea, while fun, has many problems.

First and foremost this change makes thieves only really shine in areas with darkness and darkness is easily remedied. I forsee towns and their surroundings littered with torches in a manner that can only be likened to dragoons and glass roofs. It will just force more constraints on our builders rather than improve gameplay.

Secondly this buff introduces a no fun machanic to new players. Low level players will have even more trouble than just hunting/surviving mobs at night. In stead we will see even more crowded/leech infested mob arenas.

Finally there are resource requirement problems. How often do you check the light level of every thief on the server and apply a speed buff? Even assuming only one level of speed at x and below, if it is at every relevant change, then we have to check at every update or close to it. If we spread out the light level checks and apply a timed buff then we have thieves being kited just as they are now by anyone with a stack of torches and a right mouse button.

I really don't think more stats are the way to go here. Many people I've talked with about the class feel the thief is just a lesser ninja and giving them a speed buff just brings the two closer to copy->paste. What we need is a combat mechanic that sets them apart from the other rogues.

I'm just thinking of more ways to make thieves the sneaky bastards they ought to be, and I think light levels could be played around with.

What if the thief's skill messages were removed when at a certain low level of light? Then checks would only be applied when cast.

What if thieves had an ability that let them temporarily break non-redstone torches in regioned areas?

What if thieves could blink, but only from dark areas to other dark areas?

What if they had a skill that worked like smoke, but only worked in low light conditions and ended if you moved, but lasted longer?

Don't even know if this stuff is possible though tbh.

 

[The_Player_189]

@Jayzy3

I think beastmaster should come back, Ninja's/Thieves are pretty much alike, like Spartman said they are really just for stealing/backtabbing.

A Beastmaster ideas would be.

98 Max HP
10dmg bow
6dmg Axe


They should be a combination of Ranger/Bard (imo)


Level 5 - Wolf - 20mp- 5min CD, Obviously it tames a wolf
Level 15 - Tumble - We all know what that is
Level 20 - Fire Arrow - ^^
Level 35 - Pulse - ^^
Level 50 - Backflip - Longer CD
Level 55 - Lick wounds- All past Zealer's should know what that is :{

Beastmaster

90: max hp at level 55

10 dmg: Bow & Arrow

8 dmg: Diamond axe

Level 1 - Envenom - 30% mp - 2min CD - Your AXE is poisoned!

Level 1 - Sneak - 20% mp - 20sec CD - Your now in sneak mode!

Level 10 - Wolf - 50% mp - 5min CD - Spawns a wolf to your side!

Level 20 - Cat - 10% mp - 10min CD - Spawns a cat to your side!

Level 30 - Bite - 35% mp - 10sec CD - Bites the target for 6 dmg and silences them for 3 seconds!

Level 40 - Root - 25% mp - 16sec CD - Roots the target and unroots when target takes damage!

Level 50 - LickWounds - 50%mp - 10sec CD - Heals 15 hp to any wild wolves!

Level 55 - FireArrow - 20% mp - 20sec CD - Imbues your arrows with Fire!

Level 60 - AnimalMight? - 30% mp - 15 sec CD - Mights animals around you to do more dmg!


Max wolves 1: 35 HP and do 9 DMG at level 60

Max cats 3: 10 HP and do 0? dmg at level 60

 

[BananaFuton]

A skill broadcast removal mechanic would make for some sneaky fights when combined with darkness. I like that and it doesnt even require light checks to be awesome! That could be tied to a great many things including sneak and combat tags.

Largescale world edit is costly to the server, complicated with regioning and unlikely to happen. We can provide the same effect by tweaking void fog on the target(s) to make everything go black as if we broke all the torches and cost the server almost nothing

Light level based mechanics are cool, I like the idea, but that just means that everywhere in a city will be lit like Las Vegas and limit build options. These mechanics, while great, do not adress the problem that the original post made. Any ideas for the kiting and closing problem?

 

[Glent]

A skill broadcast removal mechanic would make for some sneaky fights when combined with darkness. I like that and it doesnt even require light checks to be awesome! That could be tied to a great many things including sneak and combat tags.

Largescale world edit is costly to the server, complicated with regioning and unlikely to happen. We can provide the same effect by tweaking void fog on the target(s) to make everything go black as if we broke all the torches and cost the server almost nothing

Light level based mechanics are cool, I like the idea, but that just means that everywhere in a city will be lit like Las Vegas and limit build options. These mechanics, while great, do not adress the problem that the original post made. Any ideas for the kiting and closing problem?

What about a "blink strike" or "shadow step" style ability, like blink except requiring a target and placing you behind them? Maybe requires you to be in darkness but not the target - allowing you to quite literally strike from the shadows?

As for the Vegas comment, that's why I suggested the "dim torch" style ability, allowing thieves to remove torches and having them come back some five minutes later or whatever. The idea of a temporary void fog in an area would also be good, if it was also programmed to make the other skills react as if it were dark.

 

[ShizzDawgg]

@Glent yeah, I prosposed shadowstep at least 3-4 months ago. It's essentially the exact same thing as charge except there is no stun. It just needs to be renamed and given to thieves really. :S

 

[Glent]

@Glent yeah, I prosposed shadowstep at least 3-4 months ago. It's essentially the exact same thing as charge except there is no stun. It just needs to be renamed and given to thieves really. :S

Nobody really likes copy/paste skills though. Thieves need something to make them unique - they don't need another skill taken off another. That's why I think it should be a bit different - a blink instead of a charge (charge works iffy aswell) that operates on light mechanics. If Thief were to have skills that reacted to light mechanics I think it would make the class fairly unique and broaden the gap between it and ninja.

To clarify: I agree with a shadowstep ability, but it should have more mechanics than a renamed charge.

 

[ShizzDawgg]

@Glent yeah, I prosposed shadowstep at least 3-4 months ago. It's essentially the exact same thing as charge except there is no stun. It just needs to be renamed and given to thieves really. :S

Nobody really likes copy/paste skills though. Thieves need something to make them unique - they don't need another skill taken off another. That's why I think it should be a bit different - a blink instead of a charge (charge works iffy aswell) that operates on light mechanics. If Thief were to have skills that reacted to light mechanics I think it would make the class fairly unique and broaden the gap between it and ninja.

To clarify: I agree with a shadowstep ability, but it should have more mechanics than a renamed charge.

Haha if you insist. I assume you kind of want it to work via the same mechanics as it does for rogues in WoW? That's kind of what i'm aiming for.

 

[Glent]

@Glent yeah, I prosposed shadowstep at least 3-4 months ago. It's essentially the exact same thing as charge except there is no stun. It just needs to be renamed and given to thieves really. :S

Nobody really likes copy/paste skills though. Thieves need something to make them unique - they don't need another skill taken off another. That's why I think it should be a bit different - a blink instead of a charge (charge works iffy aswell) that operates on light mechanics. If Thief were to have skills that reacted to light mechanics I think it would make the class fairly unique and broaden the gap between it and ninja.

To clarify: I agree with a shadowstep ability, but it should have more mechanics than a renamed charge.

Haha if you insist. I assume you kind of want it to work via the same mechanics as it does for rogues in WoW? That's kind of what i'm aiming for.

I've never played a rogue in WoW, but the idea I had is that it checks if you're at a low light level and if you are allows you to instantly blink behind your target. It could alternatively have more range the lower light you were in, but that would probably be even more complex if it were to be coded.

A charge would be good, but it's nothing new or unique - and charge works funny.

 

[Plob5]

@Jayzy3





Level 5 - Wolf - 20mp- 5min CD, Obviously it tames a wolf
Level 15 - Tumble - We all know what that is
Level 20 - Fire Arrow - ^^
Level 35 - Pulse - ^^
Level 50 - Backflip - Longer CD
Level 55 - Lick wounds- All past Zealer's should know what that is :{

@Jayzy3



Level 5 - Wolf - 20mp- 5min CD, Obviously it tames a wolf
Level 15 - Tumble - We all know what that is
Level 20 - Fire Arrow - ^^
Level 35 - Pulse - ^^
Level 50 - Backflip - Longer CD
Level 55 - Lick wounds- All past Zealer's should know what that is :{

90: max hp at level 55

10 dmg: Bow & Arrow

8 dmg: Diamond axe

Level 1 - Envenom - 30% mp - 2min CD - Your AXE is poisoned!

Level 1 - Sneak - 20% mp - 20sec CD - Your now in sneak mode!

Level 10 - Wolf - 50% mp - 5min CD - Spawns a wolf to your side!

Level 20 - Cat - 10% mp - 10min CD - Spawns a cat to your side!

Level 30 - Bite - 35% mp - 10sec CD - Bites the target for 6 dmg and silences them for 3 seconds!

Level 40 - Root - 25% mp - 16sec CD - Roots the target and unroots when target takes damage!

Level 50 - LickWounds - 50%mp - 10sec CD - Heals 15 hp to any wild wolves!

Level 55 - FireArrow - 20% mp - 20sec CD - Imbues your arrows with Fire!

Level 60 - AnimalMight? - 30% mp - 15 sec CD - Mights animals around you to do more dmg!


Max wolves 1: 35 HP and do 9 DMG at level 60

Max cats 3: 10 HP and do 0? dmg at level 60

I'd Say a mix of both.

95 Max HP

10dmg: Bow
7Dmg: Diamond Axe ( only info on new skills)


Level 1 : Envenom - We all know

Level 1: Sneak - We all know

Level 10 : Wolf - Spawns you a agrresive wolf if attacked dealing 6 Dmg per bite. It has 15 HP

Level 20 : Tumble - Obviously

Level 35 : Root - Longer CD but same effect.

Level 40 - Pulse - ofc

Level 45 - Fire arrrow - Shorter CD

Level 55 - Lickwounds - Heals all your wolves to full - 5min CD

Level 60 - Farsight

 

[Hydroking77]

Wolf is passive and we already tried summoning a wolf before.

 

[The_Player_189]

@Jayzy3





Level 5 - Wolf - 20mp- 5min CD, Obviously it tames a wolf
Level 15 - Tumble - We all know what that is
Level 20 - Fire Arrow - ^^
Level 35 - Pulse - ^^
Level 50 - Backflip - Longer CD
Level 55 - Lick wounds- All past Zealer's should know what that is :{

@Jayzy3



Level 5 - Wolf - 20mp- 5min CD, Obviously it tames a wolf
Level 15 - Tumble - We all know what that is
Level 20 - Fire Arrow - ^^
Level 35 - Pulse - ^^
Level 50 - Backflip - Longer CD
Level 55 - Lick wounds- All past Zealer's should know what that is :{

90: max hp at level 55

10 dmg: Bow & Arrow

8 dmg: Diamond axe

Level 1 - Envenom - 30% mp - 2min CD - Your AXE is poisoned!

Level 1 - Sneak - 20% mp - 20sec CD - Your now in sneak mode!

Level 10 - Wolf - 50% mp - 5min CD - Spawns a wolf to your side!

Level 20 - Cat - 10% mp - 10min CD - Spawns a cat to your side!

Level 30 - Bite - 35% mp - 10sec CD - Bites the target for 6 dmg and silences them for 3 seconds!

Level 40 - Root - 25% mp - 16sec CD - Roots the target and unroots when target takes damage!

Level 50 - LickWounds - 50%mp - 10sec CD - Heals 15 hp to any wild wolves!

Level 55 - FireArrow - 20% mp - 20sec CD - Imbues your arrows with Fire!

Level 60 - AnimalMight? - 30% mp - 15 sec CD - Mights animals around you to do more dmg!


Max wolves 1: 35 HP and do 9 DMG at level 60

Max cats 3: 10 HP and do 0? dmg at level 60

I'd Say a mix of both.

95 Max HP

10dmg: Bow
7Dmg: Diamond Axe ( only info on new skills)


Level 1 : Envenom - We all know

Level 1: Sneak - We all know

Level 10 : Wolf - Spawns you a agrresive wolf if attacked dealing 6 Dmg per bite. It has 15 HP

Level 20 : Tumble - Obviously

Level 35 : Root - Longer CD but same effect.

Level 40 - Pulse - ofc

Level 45 - Fire arrrow - Shorter CD

Level 55 - Lickwounds - Heals all your wolves to full - 5min CD

Level 60 - Farsight

I like mine better.

 

[BananaFuton]

What about a "blink strike" or "shadow step" style ability, like blink except requiring a target and placing you behind them? Maybe requires you to be in darkness but not the target - allowing you to quite literally strike from the shadows?

As for the Vegas comment, that's why I suggested the "dim torch" style ability, allowing thieves to remove torches and having them come back some five minutes later or whatever. The idea of a temporary void fog in an area would also be good, if it was also programmed to make the other skills react as if it were dark.

Perhaps having skills based on the enemy having the thief applied "darkness" debuff is a good way to go. This does require that the skill have a decently long duration which in turn requires that the darkness not be too short range as to completely blind them.

I feel that 12 damamge/hit is too much to provide instant distance closers to them. It prettymuch places the enemy in front of your sword and goes "there you go, have fun". A guarunteed hit of over one tenth of a caster's health is not something we should be providing unless they just turn and fight you.

Put another way, it would be like giving dragoons a 70% more damage and making jump always land perfectly. It just isnt fair to flat force casters to fight you when you can kill them in less than 8 seconds. There needs to be an outplayed mechanic here.

 

[Mariohgcz]

I will just leave this here.....
ShadowHand:
Thief, level 60.
Cooldown: 20 seconds.
Reagents: 1 gunpowder.
Cost: 30% stamina.
The thief surrounds his hand with darkness, striking his target while dealing 10 damage, and applying a darkness, and slow debuff for 3 seconds.
If on a light level inferior to 5, the attack deals 15 damage.

 

[kevinlive]

I belive kain stated this before he removed beastmaster, the tamed wolves was one shotting people, their dmg was sometimes doing random dmg, and a few other gamebreaking bugs. I don't know if this is still an issue, but I'm guessing it is

 

[Jayzy3]

I still wish beastmasters could come back, that was really a great class. They where so different, and such a different fighting style than anyone else.

 

[Plob5]

ikr @Kainzo
Check out the BeastMaster Ideas

 

[Kainzo]

Not interested in bringing back beastmaster at this time.