Suggestion Theives and Speed

[Jayzy3]

After being a Master Thief for the past few months, Iv noticed only one thing which I believe they are missing -- a quickening skill. Two other rogue classes have it (Ninja, with One, and Bard with quicken) and The entire point of rangers is that you don't need to be close to someone to attack them, therefore making a quickening skill pointless. And yet Thieves seem to be left behind in this aspect. They are a close range, high dps class, but they lack the skills to get quickly to and from a target. And so because of this, I would be pleased if a skill such as this was introduced. That is all.

 

[Stealth_Ninja_]

I'm having trouble finding specific reasoning for why thiefs need a movement skill except that fact that you need to get to the person to hit them.
Honestly I don't thing thief should get a speed skills because it needs to stay separate from ninja, with their unique skills... Ninja with their mobility skills and blitz, and thief's unique combat skills. Also, just because other classes have a skill, it doesn't entitle other classes to get it.

 

[MysteriousYellow]

I completely agree with this. Thief's need to be up close and personal. Their hp pools are not high enough to stand toe to toe with many other classes. They have no (edit)Reliable cc (crowd control-Stuns,Slows,Snares,ect...) to catch up to fleeing enemies, or to effectively ambush someone. Having some sort of movement increase would be wonderful. Examples, exclusive to thieves, they get a better version of sneak that allows them to sneak 25% faster for 5 seconds after sneak has been used. Or give them a haste, increase 50% faster for 5 seconds. Or an improved kick that also cripples (slows) them. Being in the rogue class and having the same speed as other classes doesn't really spec thieves as a "rogue" now does it? And by putting it that way, ninjas have everything a thief has, BUT more. Making thief's inefficient.

 

[Mellowbeatz]

You seem to misunderstand being a thief then. Thieves shouldn't be "up close and personal" they're backstabbers and delinquents, they sneak up on people in order to get the advantage and then run away and hide, rinse and repeat.

If you're going to go wail on an enemy head to head you're going to get your ass not only rocked, but also humiliated when you're up against someone powerful. As for your statement on quicken being pointless. The only thing quicken is useless for is using it only on yourself instead of helping your party. The entire point of THIEVES is to be unknown, not to be fast. (That's ninja's job.)

I'd like to ask you something in which I hope you respond, being a master thief and all. Do you actually know how to play thief? or are you mad that you die every second because you can't use the class correctly?

I really don't take kindly to selfish suggestions, and that's all that this suggestion seems to be. You aren't showing me a legitimate reason to support your idea, because all you're doing is complaining on how thief can't catch up to people.

TL;DR?
THE THIEF IS A STEALTH CLASS.

 

[Kwong050]

You seem to misunderstand being a thief then. Thieves shouldn't be "up close and personal" they're backstabbers and delinquents, they sneak up on people in order to get the advantage and then run away and hide, rinse and repeat.

If you're going to go wail on an enemy head to head you're going to get your ass not only rocked, but also humiliated when you're up against someone powerful. As for your statement on quicken being pointless. The only thing quicken is useless for is using it only on yourself instead of helping your party. The entire point of THIEVES is to be unknown, not to be fast. (That's ninja's job.)

I'd like to ask you something in which I hope you respond, being a master thief and all. Do you actually know how to play thief? or are you mad that you die every second because you can't use the class correctly?

I really don't take kindly to selfish suggestions, and that's all that this suggestion seems to be. You aren't showing me a legitimate reason to support your idea, because all you're doing is complaining on how thief can't catch up to people.

TL;DR?
THE THIEF IS A STEALTH CLASS.

I agree and disagree with this.

Yes, thieves are not head to head fighters but more like a hit-n-run fighters.

No, thieves are not a stealth class, ninjas are.

Therefore, I think thieves should get a very small but somewhat viable speed skill. @Jayzy3 , that is how you back up your point.

 

[agentjwall]

What we need is Thievery. The developer of the required mod better hurry up and fix it! :/

 

[Jayzy3]

I don't understand the point of theivery except for if it can be used in safezones, or just to piss your allies of without killing them (by far the best use right there.). If you really want to rob an enemie, kill and take all his stuff instead of taking one item and then darting of to wherever you go next.

 

[Jayzy3]

Yes, I know how to play thief. I have my fair share of 20-30 kill streaks, and consider myself a decent fighter. And I have a few questions for you. What stealth skill does thief have that ninja doesn't? In fact, the only skills that falls into this catagory are sneak, and backstab. Sneak, both ninjas and thieves have, and backstab is essentially the thief counterpart the the ninjas Smoke, which is also a sneaky skill. So, this is how I see it -- both classes have equal skill for sneaking, but the ninja also has movement skills, and more than one of them. Also, in response to your claims that I act out of selfishness. Thief is the only class I know really at all, save for maybe wizard. I believe that there is a skill that should be added to balance theives that they are lacking, and some people seem to be at least semi supporting me. I made this post because I truly believe a change should be made, and have been thining about it for a considerable punt of time. I appreciate your response to my posts, although even if it is negative.


-Thank you
@Mellowbeatz

 

[Leeness]

I don't understand the point of theivery except for if it can be used in safezones, or just to piss your allies of without killing them (by far the best use right there.). If you really want to rob an enemie, kill and take all his stuff instead of taking one item and then darting of to wherever you go next.

Thievery actually works in no pvp zones. That'll help your understanding

 

[Jayzy3]

Yuss, I know, stole 2 stacks of gold using that. But now it's broken, and right before it was removed Kain said said something would be done it make it less crazy.

 

[Leeness]

Haha. Yeah it got added back in for about 5 minutes a week or so later. the less crazy part = you cannot steal more than one type of item. So only one slot, and it was given i cooldown i believe.​

​

However it got removed again (not 100% sure why on this part) because it used a "laggy" method in coding it.​

 

[Farroes]

thieves and ninjas should be merged IMO, the classes are VERY similar, the only real difference being back stab. Ninjas seem to be better then thieves in every single aspect.

 

[Hydroking77]

Remember they were merged in Zeal when bard came out.

 

[Jayzy3]

Good point. What's a good rogue class for it to be replaced with though? I would say a very specialized beastmaster like class with medium power bows and a diamond sword, say 6-7 dmg
@Farroes

 

[MysteriousYellow]

You seem to misunderstand being a thief then. Thieves shouldn't be "up close and personal" they're backstabbers and delinquents, they sneak up on people in order to get the advantage and then run away and hide, rinse and repeat.

If you're going to go wail on an enemy head to head you're going to get your ass not only rocked, but also humiliated when you're up against someone powerful. As for your statement on quicken being pointless. The only thing quicken is useless for is using it only on yourself instead of helping your party. The entire point of THIEVES is to be unknown, not to be fast. (That's ninja's job.)

I'd like to ask you something in which I hope you respond, being a master thief and all. Do you actually know how to play thief? or are you mad that you die every second because you can't use the class correctly?

I really don't take kindly to selfish suggestions, and that's all that this suggestion seems to be. You aren't showing me a legitimate reason to support your idea, because all you're doing is complaining on how thief can't catch up to people.

TL;DR?
THE THIEF IS A STEALTH CLASS.

The thief is a stealth class? I don't take kindly in ignorant people. Look at the thief's skills. They have stealth, pretty much the only "stealth" they have. Its not difficult to find someone running at you in sneak. Therefore it makes your point void. Backstabbing REQUIRES you to be "up close and personal" delinquents? no thats a beguilers job. Thieves are a dps class, how do you expect to run away when you have no invisibility? You can't outrun anyone, so technically, you can only pull that off once to get the advantage, then you'll haft dps them to death. Ninjas can be invisible, so they fulfill the role of a thief. They have speed, burst, range, melee. Give me something thief's have that ninjas don't? Because ninja seems too beat thief's at every point. Giving no legitimate reason to pick thief.

 

[ICherry_girl]

Giving a class a skill that makes them faster isn't going to help the class with any of it's current issues. The current issue with thieves is that they don't have anything that differentiates them from other rogue classes besides pickpocket. If that's the problem, then you should suggest thief type skills, not for more speed.

In my own honest opinion, I don't want to see a thief getting a speed boosting move. It seems really stupid, and it'll just make it look like a copy-paste class. So stop complaining and getting mad at each other, this really isn't a legitimate reason to complain. Also, @MysteriousYellow there is a legitimate reason to pick thief, that is to stack up on stealing items from people at spawn, and when people aren't looking.

Every class has a legitimate reason to be picked. *COUGH*excepthealerspecsbesidescleric.*COUGH COUGH* On the topic of being up close and personal, you should take it as common sense to follow someone out of spawn, sneaking, and then kill them when they either A.) Stop moving or B.) Stop. Freaking. Moving. That's the life of a thief, not immediately attacking someone as soon as they leave and then dying.

Professional thieves WAIT and then strike. They're never "Up close and personal" because that would fall into the slot of being in head to head combat. Thieves are ruthless, they steal your items and backstab you before you can even figure out what's happening.

I'll leave my ranting at this, in herocraft you must live your class. Don't just auto-attack and hope to win. You won't.

 

[spartanman118]

I don't understand the point of a thief other than backstab and stealing in a non-pvp zone. Other than that what's the point. Why steal items when you could kill them, in my opinion.

 

[BananaFuton]

Rather than give them another speed skill, I propose we give them other skills more unique to their "cloak and dagger" nature. Id like them to be about tricking . Give them things like:

1. A short duration, moderate cooldown, blind. This can give them closing power in that the enemy will not know which direction to run. A secondary function would be to add some manual dodge in melee if they turn up voidfog enough.

2. A skill that faces the enemy in a random direction and staring at either the ground or the sky(riding pigs does this so I assume it can be forced by the server).

3. A spammable and extremely short range (2-3 blocks) blink behind target. This again gives them manual dodge by forcing the enemy to turn around.

The first two of these can solve the closing problem(given a decent range) and the last allows them to go toe-to-toe against tankier and cc based classes. Importantly, all of these skills give the thief no more stats, speed, or damage than they already have. Thieves should be about exploiting player reaction time and winning through quick wit rather than an inherent upper hand.

 

[Glent]

What if they moved faster in lower light levels?

 

[BananaFuton]

What if they moved faster in lower light levels?

This idea, while fun, has many problems.

First and foremost this change makes thieves only really shine in areas with darkness and darkness is easily remedied. I forsee towns and their surroundings littered with torches in a manner that can only be likened to dragoons and glass roofs. It will just force more constraints on our builders rather than improve gameplay.

Secondly this buff introduces a no fun machanic to new players. Low level players will have even more trouble than just hunting/surviving mobs at night. In stead we will see even more crowded/leech infested mob arenas.

Finally there are resource requirement problems. How often do you check the light level of every thief on the server and apply a speed buff? Even assuming only one level of speed at x and below, if it is at every relevant change, then we have to check at every update or close to it. If we spread out the light level checks and apply a timed buff then we have thieves being kited just as they are now by anyone with a stack of torches and a right mouse button.

I really don't think more stats are the way to go here. Many people I've talked with about the class feel the thief is just a lesser ninja and giving them a speed buff just brings the two closer to copy->paste. What we need is a combat mechanic that sets them apart from the other rogues.